My Conundrum about the Legacy N&W J

Hi lee,

 

An interesting and provocative post! To an Englishman the j captures all that is great about big powerfull American steam. If it was mine I would love it for what it is and I would also leave the paint scheme alone. It is afterall a N&W loco and is what it is.

 

To see it in the "wrong livery" would be as bad in my eyes as Mallard in LMS Red its just so wrong...

 

That said it is of course your engine on your layout and you know what - you can do whatever you like. Its just on this occasion the j is iconic as it is.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Good post as always and I am sure you wil have many replies!!

 

CHEERS MIKE

Yeah, I'm thinking of leaving it alone and just putting it on the shelf.  Ugly or not, the J was one the "best" locos ever in many ways, and it was only N&W - and I should have a model of something this famous and important in my collection.  But it probably get run less than anything else in my collection. 

>>>But what to do about the J?<<

 

Sell it..  Write off the loss. 

Joe 

 

No, no, no. The "J" is only a really significant art deco loco because Lionel chose to do it in the '50's. Therefore, we all know it. If you take the approach of having significant locos then you have to have the Tennessean, the Cincinnatian, the New Haven I, the Dreyfus Hudson, the Commodore Vanderbilt, etc. And aside from some of them being somewhat difficult to acquire, you would end up with a lot of shelf queens.

 

You should sell it for $250. I would be glad to take it off your hands.

 

Gerry

 

 

You didn't realize that you didn't like the appearance of  the "J" until you had the o- guage madel in you hands?

 

Surely you could have found a picture of the previous Lionel release or the prototype...... somewhere, and realized this.

 

I say paint it grey, then it will be reeeeaaallllllly ugly.

The last model I had to the J was a brass N-scale version I bought around 2000.  It was beautiful in that scale.   And the J looked okays in the catalog, at the angle all depicted it looks a bit sleeker and longer (i.e., not squat as it does on my shelf or layout). 

 

Right now I'm tending to think of just leaving it as is and putting it on a low shelf - the work to repaint it well would be substantial, but I disagree that, repainted, it would be "reeeeaaally ugly": I think if any color scheme could help it look only "a little bit ugly" it would be the UP gray-black with big yellow stripe.

Run the wheels off it!
I noticed that if you don't have the passenger cars, the engine looks out of place thus it will be sentenced as a shelf queen. So I say buy the passenger cars and run the set. It will look right as rain.
I may weather my engines, but never repaint them.

Lee,

I agree with Joe. Sell it or trade it for something you want.  Maybe give it as a gift to someone young who is just starting in the hobby and would never have the resources to by a scale legacy locomotive. 

If you really desire or enjoy a Two-Tone Union Pacific fantasy scheme...have you looked at the latest legacy version of the 4-12-2?  Eric's trains has a nice product review video.

Lee, iconic though it may be I'm in agreement with you on the looks.  I've never much liked it (even though my VA car's license plate features it; it's  the only steam engine plate that the state offers as far as I know).

Hello Lee Willis.....

 

Since you like the Santa Fe steam, you could repaint the N&W J engine to be like the Williams Santa Fe blue goose but yours can be a scale version of that ?  Just a thought

 

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,623

Tiffany

I haven't seen the model J but I saw the real 611 at the Virginia Transportation Museum.  I thought it is a beautiful engine in the N&W paint scheme.

 

Maybe Lionel didn't capture the essence of the real J with the model?  I would leave it painted N&W.  UP has plenty of beautiful locomotives that you could collect.

 

Joe

 

The giving it away is a much better idea than selling it. Allan Miller could probably use a really good birthday present and I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

 

Gerry

There is a handfull for steamers that are Icons for any collector the j is one of them..

What happens if you repaint it and find out that it really does look ugly as sin in UP grey?

I think the 11th commandment would prevent you from painting it.

 

"Thou shalt not commit ugliness against thy N&W J"

If you're going to "mess it up", paint it in the Life Savers paint scheme .

SORRY, but it is total BLASPHEMY to call the revered and iconic N&W Class J  UGLY!!   Sell it to someone who appreciates it for WHAT IT IS: a BEAUTIFUL CLASSIC! 

If you think its ugly now, I wouldn't hold my breath once its grey. 

I have to agree about the looks, I find the J's ugly myself.

 

If it's in your means to give it away, then that by far will give you more than leaving something like that on your shelf that you really don't care for anyway.

I've seen a few previous J's weathered. Very cool..I recall Lionel actually making a J weathered...

At one time MTH produced an unshrouded J for those that loved the J but hated streamlining...

For me, its an Iconic NW engine that requires the cars. It was designed to look exactly as it was produced.

Joe

I have to agree that model versions of the J have undersized-looking drivers, which detracts from the appeal. With a model version usually being viewed from higher angles, and with the somewhat bulky shrouding, I know what Lee means about looking squat. The Lionel 6-8-6 Turbine engine has the same issue; the drivers look undersize.

 

I am not in any way denigrating the real J-class locomotives. I'm just saying that some model versions don't seem to do it justice.

 

It might be interesting to see if a different color could enhance the model loco. Dark red?

 

Beauty is definitely in the eyes of the beholder, but I have ridden behind the J on many occasions, as well as chasing it when it made its first test run in 1982. It is, and always will be a BEAUTIFUL and aesthetically pleasing machine. BTW, the drivers on all my scale models looked just FINE! 

Well as a huge N&W fan you are killin' me with this.  But that said you should own and operate what you like and enjoy....you'll have to excuse me now.....I have to go restart my heart...

 

Chris

 

quote:

 have undersized-looking drivers, which detracts from the appeal

In case you haven't noticed Ace, unless you are into the "Fine Scale" part of the hobby, they all have undersized drivers in order to help cope with the undersize curves.

quote:

 The J had the power to reach and sustain 100-110 mph speeds routinely, but with 70" drivers, I wonder if it could really have pulled any significant load much beyond 115-120 mph?  I think locos like the T-1 with 80" drivers were more the candidates for the speed ribbon requiring 130+ mph speeds.

Lee,
SO WHAT!

The J's weren't designed to pull trains at 130+ mph! They were designed to get trains through the mountains at a pretty good clip, and that they did! The fact that they could beat the old "Driver Diameter + 10%" rule with ease is just icing on the cake!!!

 

I say, go on, paint the thing. Use some good 'ol Krylon to do it with so you can really stink it up. Then sit back and see how much of your hard earned money you get back when you do see the error of your ways and try to sell it.

 

 

Sorry, but I wouldn't consider a fantasy paint scheme a Star Trek paint scheme...

 

Unless....

 

 

 

Rusty 

 

 

 

Williams does that!!

My last TWO scale Lionel J's looked just FINE with their "undersized" drivers! 

I actually just bought Lionel's 2005 release of the J. I've seen plenty of photos of it along with the real thing. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but as train fans we recognize that it is an icon of a classic railroad so the majority of us automatically find it beautiful.

 

My brutally honest opinion on the repaint idea? Let's just say as I read your original post Lee, I kept thinking to myself this is a pretty funny joke. I only realized you were serious when it was mentioned you've talked about this before.

Lee,

 

I am one for keeping my opinions close to the vest so I admire you for your always free thinking posts.

 

I've always loved the J but others including yourself may not.

 

Do what you like with the engine, you paid good money for it and enjoy it as you see fit!

 

As iconic as the N&W J is, I never had the desire to add it to my collection either.  It just seemed too plain to me, which is how I view streamlined steam locomotives.  That is until I took a trip to Roanoke last summer and visited the The Virginia Museum of Transportation and got to pet and climb all over the J.  Along with the accompanying N&W 1218 A, I need to add them to my roster, but I passed on the recent Legacy J since I wanted it with all the steam effects.  Sorry Lionel, you've spoiled me!

 

I must have softened my stance on streamlined steam as I now own a Dreyfus Hudson, PRR T1 and S1 and a Santa Fe Blue Goose!

 

As for your J, Lee, I agree with J Daddy, get the matching passenger cars and I'll bet you'll like the set as a whole much better.  But if you need to paint it, I also like the second paint scheme in the pictures you posted!  It's your railroad, have fun with it as you like!

Lee - I always like your posts, they seem to have a different way of looking at things and I like that. As for the J, if it doesn't impress you and you don't want to sell, I think gifting it would be a great idea. I know from reading your posts that you have plenty of motive power. It doesn't sound like you will miss this one. Also, this engine is a favorite of many (myself included). When I saw it in the catalog I was excited and disappointed. It is way out of my current budget and at O54 turn radius, too big for my current layout. I'm hoping one day my resources improve and this can find its way to my layout.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do with it

Friends don't let friends deface a N&W J.

Scott Smith

Lee,

 

Maybe put some passenger cars behind the J and see how they look. Maybe it is just an adjustment from the articulated UPs and big Northerns you like so well...

 

I'm waiting for my 2013 treat, the Pocohontas train with the J in the lead

So very true ultimately. 

 

In terms of the J's performance you would be hard pressed to find another Northern to do what the J's did on a daily basis on the grades the N&W had to contend with.  No matter how you look at it 110mph with 70" drivers is impressive to say the least. 

 

I have no doubt that one of UP's FEF's could better the Mallard.  Hotwater told a story recently that was shared with him by a former UP engineer from back in the steam days about tests that were conducted on the FEF's performance, 844 was one of the "test" engines used...and that shed some light on the FEF's true capabilities....very interesting story. 

 

Chris  

Lee,If there were Model Train police, You would hear, "PUT DOWN THE PAINT CAN AND STEP AWAY FROM THE J, DO IT NOW!!!"   Fred

Even though it is an N&W engine, I'm a fan of the J. I was too young to remember it during excursion service but would love to ride on it one day (I'll be 21 in a couple months)

 

Lee...don't paint it. If you are looking to give it away, welp, I'd love to have it as my first Legacy engine!