My Layout: The BIG decision

While it is very cool to model only one particular railway or time period, I have gone the way of just buying/running whatever I like and getting past the whole "well this engine never pulled these cars" or "that signal would never have been used in that way".  I admire the guys who run period correct trains and ONLY use period accessories but at the same time you have to accept is that limits you drastically in what you can do.  

I say take what you have and just have fun!  If you put a diesel idling in NYC Grand Central I'd love it just as much!  

Chip:  Just my opinion.  Stop thinking about it, and stop feeling that everything has to be perfect.  Start enjoying your trains again.  Build something fun and run your trains.  Heck, build a train dragway and race them.  Less fretting, more enjoying, that's the ticket.

I think that your over thinking too much. Just run what you have and enjoy your layout.

Thanks for your responses...needed a sanity check!

You guys are correct, and there is no way I am going dismantle yet another layout.

At most, maybe make an adjustment or two.

I have found that in similar situations, theres no way around compromise. For myself, I wanted to do the Illinois Terminal in the electric era...and that simply meant a major reinvention of the wheel. There is no guarantee that after you rearrange everything, you will be happy with the end result. There are a lot of things about my current layout that in 20/20 hindsight, I should have done but did not. I think you need to consider the cost / benefit and if you can really achieve what your mind will be happy with. I decided that I was setting myself up to eventually be just as dissatisfied with a redo given what was possible. Its all about compromise. Sometimes we also take what we have for granted..using myself as an example.

There are two schools of thought, make it strictly prototypical as you have attempted, or go in the opposite direction and run what you like regardless of whether it makes sense in the real world. I decided a long time ago to run what I like and not worry about whether a train originated, passed through, or terminated at a particular station.

This is really a personal decision. You have to go the direction that will make you happy. Your decision may limit the trains you run or open up to a greater variety.

Chip,

  I buy a train because I like the way it looks, I have steam with modern cars, diesel with older cars, Santa Fe with NYC and Penn, the point is who cares!! Just take the part of this hobby you enjoy and go with it, have fun and do not sweat the small stuff.

Art

All model railroads are a compromise.  I have a 10 X 20 ft. layout in my attic that depicts the New Haven running from Boston to New York.  One siding is designated GCT and a siding at on the other side of the layout is Boston.   There is a siding in between where I change power from electric to steam or diesel.  The in between siding is designated as New Haven / Cedar Hill.  Most passenger trains consist of an engine and two or three cars.  That is all that will fit on the sidings. Changing engines at New Haven just as the real NH RR did keeps me busy and satisfied.  

Joe

I would love to see that layout Joe.

A few must haves on my layout that I want to include, and figured out some small changes i can easily make to create them:

1) Create 2 spurs off the spur to Grand Central as my must have "Morris Park shops" for my LIRR RS1, C-420, and MU. The old spur to Grand Central can be an extra terminate spur just like the real Morris Park shops and all will have access to the main via the existing main entrance.

2) Remove top level of insulated board in one corner down the line from Grand Central, and use the remaining level that currently has my LIRR route on it, as small versions of Sunnyside Yard to accommodate my LIRR and PRR passenger cars and some LIRR and PRR motive power.

3) On that same level create a small version of Mott Haven yard to accommodate my NYC passenger cars and motive power.

4)Run NYC and PRR out of Grand Central using the new connection between Sunnyside and Mott Haven to Grand Central, but keep the problematic MU's on the loop and out of Grand Central.

5)Use my left over wood, foam and new floating shelf corner kits to create an around the wall 2 track main around the room, but 2 levels higher than current layout.

This will run my WP, SP, Santa Fe, Southern, Texas Specials.

6) Somewhere on (5) create a large enough siding to stage all these trains, and on the opposite side a refinery for my giant Lionel SP Tank Train set.

Whatcha think?

I can perform steps 1-4 this week, and steps 5 and 6 over a 2 month period, after the new year.

I have much the same problem and the compromise that I am making is to have select sections or vignettes that remind enough of what I am trying to model to make it enjoyable for me.

Example, I have the TW Chicago Union Station and am trying to run trains that ran in and out of that station.  Depending on how correct you are trying to be, I am running the west coast bound trains of Santa Fe, Union Pacific, and CB&Q.  I also want to run Milwaukee Road and Illinois Central in the future.  (I have to have an IC City of New Orleans on my layout.)  But that is already a problem because Chicago had at least 4 passenger stations and the RR's I like ran out of different stations.

So, in my mind I am not letting that bother me.  I am also pulling my CAZ with Western Pacific F units and we all know that it ran out of Union Station behind Burlington stainless steel units.  I may change this, but my love for the Western Pacific paint job has so far over ruled my rivet counting.

Based on what you have stated, I would recommend trying to find compromises that you can live with.  I question if you will be happy if you try to totally abandon the things that you have wanted to model for so long.  Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best.

Art

Chipset,

Growing up reading the shall I call them 'scale modeling' magazines, I was more and more influenced to make my layout and trains more prototypical.  I never had the time, space, money, or energy to pull it off.  I had several, shall we say, false starts.  After about 40 years of that, I realized that wasn't really what I wanted anyway.  I wanted to use what little creativity I may have.  (I say that because I have a daughter who is an artist, and I see what creativity can really be)  I want a neat and tidy railroad, not one with piles of junk siting around every work shed, no model newspapers in the gutters, no graffiti on the freight cars.

I was finally exposed to O gauge railroading, and feel like a weight is off my shoulders.  While I still do not like to mix modern rolling stock with my steam era, I'm not concerned if the train is prototypical, or if my station area is as it was somewhere.  I am like you but with a smaller area to work with.  My layout will be whatever works and still makes me happy.

Speaking of the 'scale magazines', I picked up a copy of a very good one recently showing a well known modeler's new layout.  He has built it to be like the area he grew up in during the '50s.  Sound familiar?  He has done a fine job.  However, his resources make mine look like a drop in the bucket.  In fact, his HO layout covers more square footage than my whole house including attached garage and my shed!  I am not jealous in the least!  I would be overwhelmed planning, building, and maintaining such a layout.  Of course he has to have help.  It is how he wants to enjoy the hobby, and I'm happy for him.  However, I am not like him, and I don't think you are either.  If you can do it fine.  But as others have already said, we all have to make compromises.  Maybe we all should go back a bit to what influenced us to get in the hobby in the first place.

I'm all for you, and I appreciate your transparency.  Thanks for bouncing your ideas off us.  I learn a lot from each person's questions, comments and answers.

You had to tell me that Art!

Yep, I love my Lionel WPs....

I really really like that Union Station model too...

One alternative to my above posted adjustments and additions might be to throw Union Station in a far corner for my Chicago Railroads instead of visible staging I previously mentioned.

Yep, several stations in Chicago hosting a ton of railroads....just like my GCT better to consolidate Penn Station and GCT into GCT and all those Chicago Stations intop Union Station.

Do you have any pictures or videos?

The compulsion to try and be fully prototypical is what made me leave HO. I was modeling the LIRR and started worrying about what dates equipment ran, when was the paint changed and etc. The research necessary can be fun and I had decided on summer 1926 as some of the G-5s had arrived but many of the interesting camel backs were still on the roster. There were odd LIRR parlor cars and the pulman Sunrise Special. Trouble was I never got anything done being paralyzed with a "fear" of having the wrong number of rivits.

Saw an add for an MTH LIRR RDC set and then the Greenport Scoot from K-line. Are they accurate? Not really but I'm having fun on my basement loops and one point-to-point to take advantage of the RDCs and Scoot.

I know this isn't for all but you can have fun and enjoyment with the equipment and layout you've got now--we all just need some of that great imagination we had at 10.

Scotie

Mark Boyce, very well said!

After bouncing around for many, many years including G, HO, N, Z, when my son was born I got into O to share with him, and have not looked back.  I admire the superb modeling that others do, but that is not my interest:  I like to run trains and hear the chuffing, and see the puffing, and hear the diesel roar, and feel the weight of the trains going by (vibrations in the air and train table), hearing the sound of steel wheels on rails and the click-clack over rail joints, and smell the smoke and exhaust.   You can't have that experience in smaller scales, while G is too large for my space.  

For me its about having fun, not trying to live up to some high standard of scale modeling.   -Ken

Running O-Guage trains is a multi-sensory experience, the IMAX of model railroading.

Here are a few pictures.

Art

I had some modern Metra cars in this picture.  I do run modern at times with Amtrak and Metra.

Chip. model Gotham City and Metropolis and create your own historical sites. Throw in Narnia and Middle Earth. Once you got those places down there's nothing you can't do.

Chip,

Spence said it all in two sentences. I grew tired of one prewar layout. So, I built another. I never stopped to enjoy what I had. Now that everything is gone I can see my mistakes .

It is time to have a glass of iced-tea, step back and imagine ways to enjoy what you have. Let us all know about your new outlook .

God's Blessings,

"Pappy" 

WOW Art!

I am impressed with those platforms!

Also, that stairway on the right looks interesting, is that scratch built?

Thanks.  The platforms are just dimension wood cut to the desired shape and painted with old concrete colored latex paint.  The stairs are an MTH set of stairs that crosses over the tracks with the top removed.

Art

chipset,

This sounds like a plan. I can almost see it from your descriptions. You'll definitely be running trains and having some fun. Then 5 & 6 keep you doing something during the cold months. Stretching out those long trains will be worth the effort.

Since it is what you originally wanted to do, I would keep your existing "old" GCT and use it for what you had in mind -- but just reset your thought process:

1.  Passenger cars of the woodside era generally did not have to turned when changing direction of travel;  the exception might be observation cars, which were just appearing on the scene. So,

2.  Your arriving train heads into the station, the locomotive uncouples, and moves half a car length farther towards the bumper.  A new road locomotive, facing the correct way, backs on to the other end of the train, and is now ready [ after the brake test ! ] to head off to Albany or wherever.

3.  Once that train has departed, the arriving locomotive can back out;  you then have two possibilities:

   a) It can back up, "light engine" to the offstage engine terminal, where it is serviced, turned, and then reappears ready for another train.

   b) Install a turntable and minimal service [ water + coal ] facilities near the station.

   c) Use a mix of a + b

4.  Some of those departing trains may actually be going to the offstage coach yard, too.  Designate or acquire some locos as switchers.

In short:  Not only does this approach solve your [ original ] problem, it gives you increased play val -- I mean, increased operational possibilites, AND it's prototypical.  Whatta deal !!

Best regards, SZ

Thanks SZ, one cause of the issue and which you mention as a remedy was my lack of a off stage coach yard and engine servicing terminal.

I just put in place the beginnings of Morris Park today, and thus will begin to relieve these issues.

Matt:  You left out HOOTERVILLE.   

chipset;

Several options come to mind that I don't think anyone touched on yet:

1. Punt the old lady, then build whatever size layout you want using as much of the house as needed.

2. Buy a bigger house that has as much room as you need.

3. Buy a second house or large out-building for the layout.

No need to thank me; I am happy to help!

Unfortunately none of the above options will be inexpensive.(!)

Many years ago my first wife said "either these trains go or I do."

At first I kind of missed her........... 

Rod

I would honestly just have fun with the trains you have and not obsess about prototypes.  Outside of modeling the 40's and 50's or current modern trains it is tough in O-Gauge to model other specific era's and prototypes.  I would love to build a layout based on the SCL's operations Florida in the 70's.  Unfortunately though in O-Gauge that would be tough to do because of the lack of SCL equipment.  Modeling a prototype can be rewarding and make it easier to budget specifically for equipment but it is not the end all for building a layout.  

Chipset.......I feel your pain.....but your new idea does sound awesome!

I take the New York Central and New Haven and fantasize......in my world, the south Bronx never blighted and became a commercial hub for the borough. The Central and the New Haven never died.....and Bronx Central Station, built in the Mott Haven section of the lower Bronx, handles passenger traffic for trains going in and out of GCT and Penn Station(there is a fictitious connection to the New Haven line that crosses over the HellGate bridge). Even the New York Ontario &Western has found new life.....instead of coming down the West Shore into Weehawken, it crosses the New Haven bridge over the Hudson after being routed through Maybrook yard....and enters New York City by trackage rights on the Harlem Division.

Peter

Peter,

I did not know you model the NYC area?

BTW, I live just down the road from Richmond in Williamsburg.

Chipset......you need to come see our modular layout! You're only an hour away!

Peter

Sounds like a plan Peter!

Chipset, way to technical. I run my trains to have fun and I don't care if I would run a Santa Fe through a new England snow covered village, That's what we did as kids.

Having said that, I respect your ideas. Don't forget about the fun part. Good Luck.

It's your world, not the real world, so drop the obsession with total accuracy.  Have a terminal that fits your needs.

.....

Dennis

chipset i would only listen to one person that being YOU. you alone knows what will make you happy. that's what you need to do- make yourself happy. we all have to make adjustments to the dreams we make in our heads as we all plan like we had McCormick Place in Chicago for a layout and even that is too small for most of us.

Here is an update:

I was able to add a turn out to my main line on the width side of the room, as that space was just a very narrow aisle for me to gain access during the construction process.

I have one of those long plastic grippers to reach anything blocked by this new area.

My next step is to buy (cringe) 2 MTH RealTrax switches to add to the ones I recently fixed, and connect from that switch on the main line to 4 to 5 tracks terminating at the end against the long wall.

I am estimating about 5 feet of track for visible station staging of 4-5 trains here.

And of course, should I make the plunge, that area against the wall might...might ...be a good spot for TrainWorx Union Station (cringe).

Not sure if itwould look right, might be too big in a 12x14 room.

Plus, my smaller version Lionel GCT is right by the door, which breaks the rule of larger objects closer to viewer and smaller further away.

If only TrainWorx would come out with smaller versions of all their stations like they did with GCT it would make me and others very happy.

Man I learned something again.

When you get an email notification that someone liked something you posted, and you respond to it, the response is posted back here on the forum! It does NOT go by email to the person who posted the like.

Wow; who knew that?

So you want to be a little careful what you say in your response.

I deleted several of my responses that showed up here.

Anyway just for the record, I agree with what the others are saying chipset, and I hope my earlier post did not offend you or anyone else. it was intended to be all in good fun.

The best,

Rod

I never saw it Rod, but no problem.

BTW, you will probably find this either funny or old news- For the longest time I believe you did not use a picture for your OGR forum avatar.

And because "Rod Stewart" the rock and roll star is a known huge model railroader..for the longest time I thought you were actually him, until I find out he is modeling HO scale.

I would go off the board for 1000 and convince the Mrs. to give up the next room... or start packin'... that is, to purchase your next new larger home...

Awwwwww, thats mean, I would never do that.

In all fairness..I do have stuff thats mine of some sort in almost every room....