My (Quick) Review of the new Legacy Pocahontas Locomotive

I don't own either of these, but thank you for the review.  I  know others will find it helpful and enjoyable.

When I got back into trains, one of my first 'must have' locomotives was a N&W "J"!  

Wow.....nice looking!

Peter

A few points:

The bells on all the J's were moved from the top to a spot near the front underneath the skirt, sometime in the 1950's, according to Christophern&w. The Lionel is correct for the later version of the #611.

The excursion version of 611, at least, had solid lead truck wheels, rather than spoked, so this is correct.

I like the rods on the MTH version better.

I'm indifferent to detailed cab interiors for a running model engine.

Blackened wheel rims are a plus.

The MTH version does have a somewhat nicer coal pile, but you can more readily improve the looks of the Lionel coal.

How does either model compare to drawings for accuracy?

Good to know about the bell!  I think it is hiding under the skin above the front truck.  While this may be accurate, it's sort of like a very detailed cab interior - not visible on a running model so who really cares. 

Don't know how either compare to technical specifications, not that it really matters when comparing how the two look sitting next to each other and the impression they both make.

By the way, the Lionel catalogue shows the locomotive with the spoked wheels and what looks like a bell.

Peter 

The pilot wheels and valve gear is correct for both the 602 and 611 models. They were different...

Very nice comprehensive review.

Thanks for the review and opinions.  Nicely balanced report. 

Nice review thank you.

Very nice review.  Thank you for sharing.  I have thought about purchasing the new MTH Premiere version that is coming out soon so this review is helpful.  On the Legacy engine, the bell is near the front truck.  On Lionel Legacy 612 you can see it in the photo below.  These photos are not mine, but I took them from another thread….

On Lionel Legacy 611, you can faintly see it in this photo near the front truck….

BTW, the aluminum "J" cylinder plate on the 602 is correct. I thought they were brass/bronze but when I saw the 611 at the send-off last year; aluminum cylinder plates.

As for the tool-box. That was most likely a locomotive specific variation.

Gilly 

Very good comparison. You kept it objective and gave good reasons for your opinions. 

The all-to-frequent need to send new items into Lionel for repair becomes more unsavory with the recent price increases by the shipping companies.

Yes, I realize that Vision line products are covered both ways and yes, I realize and appreciate that Lionel service has a fast turn-time on warranty work right now. 

However, it seems like they should consider a policy of reimbursing the shipping cost to get it to them if the repair was indeed not caused by operator error or mistreatment.

Every new Lionel purchase I make is made with the mindset that I'll probably have to send it in for repair within the first six weeks.

My Legacy 611 has a bell.  I repainted it in Union Pacific Greyhound.  I don't remember if the bell was there when I repainted it or I added it, but I lean toward it having been there - I'd remember if I added it, I think. 

I've had one loco with issues out of 44 Legacy and Vision locos and three out of perhaps 50 non-Legacy locos, sets, and accessories with Lionel, which is frankly slightly better than I've had with MTH (better lately) and WBB (all recently).  I think it is the nature of the industry and the pressure to work with lowest-cost suppliers.  Regardless, I don't worry about it.

Bell or no bell, there are hundreds of details that any model train company can choose/not choose to add to their product to improve model fidelity and to impress its customers, especially if they are paying top $$.

It has been said here a few times that scale details on a Premier MTH model is "generally" better than on a scale Lionel and for less $$...

It has also been said that the Legacy sounds are better than MTH PS2/3

When built, I believe the class & builder's plates were all nickel plated. This photo taken before the 611 left town.

I don't understand the questioning about the Lionel bell. It has been clearly shown that the models all have a bell. Depends on what version as to where it is placed

Nice review... And a good point about BTO products as it pertains to availability of dealer extras for exchange when something goes amiss.  Puts the onus back on Lionel customer service to do the fixing, and the customer to pay for the shipping.   

But for the record, the Pocahontas set was not BTO.  Delivery was long overdue for this set catalog'd back in 2012, if I recall correctly.  And most folks -- including dealers -- probably all but forgot about it.  I suspect most small dealers and LHS's may have only ordered one or two of these sets, so there's very little wiggle-room.  

David 

I stand corrected about the cylinder plates, thank you. 

Gilly

 I sense a bit of bias here.

 ..... is the bell tone a matter of preference too? Sounds are certainly more accurate/ better executed.... on one of the models.....depending on your "preference".

 Lionel legacy 611

Note the bell location( and tone) at 3:17

Actually, I sense a bit of taking something out of context to make your own point.  If you had quoted the entire "sounds comment," it would have included  

"Engine random sounds - Legacy has a bunch of creaking and groaning sounds that give this thing a real feel.  I don't know that MTH has much of this, although it does automatically launch a clickety-clack sound when the locomotive stays at a constant speed over 30 SMPH."  

This feature in particular is the reason I said I prefer the Legacy version. I had no idea what the real locomotive's bell or whistle sounded like and frankly, didn't care. 

Second point - when I said I prefer, it should have been a tip-off that I was stating my opinion.  Opinions, for the record, are always subjective and, therefore, biased. 

Third point - really like how you have the Premier, Legacy and real engines clips here for a sound comparison of the bell and whistle.  Thanks for adding this, it certainly helps. 

Peter

I don't know Rick..I'm gonna have to pick the one in the third video for sound and for capturing the looks of the real 611.....

Actually in this case I have to give the nod to Lionel for the sounds...they nailed the whistle.  But for looks I'd go with MTH....Lionel had some issues with the 2 in 612 I see.

Based upon experience with other Railsounds sound sets, I would have agreed. However, based upon the MTH 2015 catalog information for the Premier 611,

“These models will feature a new sound set recorded from prototype J No. 611, currently under restoration and scheduled to hit the road in early 2015. Current owners of Proto-sound 2.0 or 3.0 Class Js can download the new sound set for free after it’s released. Watch the progress of 611’s restoration and make a contribution at fireup611.org.”

Hopefully MTH won't disappoint. For my train dollars, what can be more accurate than a sound set from "the real deal"?

Gilly

UPDATE ON WARRANTY REPAIR

Kudos to Lionel service!   You may recall that the day after I got this set and did the review it started running in a very jerky manner, the smoke unit failed and the cab interior light began flickering like a disco and would not stop regardless of whether the train was stopped or in motion.  Disappointed, to say the least. But Lionel paid for shipping both ways. And I got the locomotive back fixed within a week!  Compare that to the two brand new MTH Imperial ES44s I sent to MTH for repairs 6 weeks ago. Still in queue and Service said "maye in two weeks."  Not complaining, as this is what I've come to expect from MTH, but this is my first experience with a warranty fix from Lionel and, while returning a brand new locomotive for repairs is not fun, I am totally impressed by how quickly they got it done!  

Peter