My Thoughts on Lionchief and Lionchief+

Hi Tim

    I like the Lionel Chief Plus engines for visitors that visit my train room. I have 19 engines on MTH / DCS, the concept of teaching all that to a first timer is to much. I can hand them a Lionel Chief Plus engine and they are up and running.

    Lionel Chief Plus has some real nice stuff coming out this fall, and I am in......

• The photo below tells the story about the "Chaos" with MTH / DCS & Lionel TMCC

PS - I would rather going looking for a lost Lionel Chief Plus Control then look for a short in all these wires.

Gary - Cheers from The Detroit & Mackinac Railway

I think both Lionel and MTH have good systems.  MTH simplifies by making everything DCS capable and Lionel simplifies by using Lion Chief/LC+.   What I like about it is that I bought a Thomas the Tank Lion Chief and I can just put it on my DCS only layout and let my grandson run his Thomas while run my DCS trains.  

For the individuals that have larger layouts and need more complexity you have the TMCC/Legacy and DCS.  Even with DCS, running more than 3 engines at a time on one remote can keep you very busy.  

I also doubt that people that go the Lion Chief route will be owning more than a few engines. The only disadvantage I see is that you can't run two identical Lion Chief engines separately on the same track, at least I don't think so.  The one remote would run them both.

I really like my lionchief +.  I have the C&NW RS3.  Been running it on my conventional layout.  It has a slight incline.  The lionchief has some speed control that makes operation easy and fun on the hill.   I cannot find a way to alter the sound volume however and that would be a nice feature. 

I think Lionel had a totally different market in mind for Lion Chief and Lion Chief Plus and different than TMCC/Legacy. And so far it appears to be a big success for them. Possibly even bigger than they imagined. If they made them TMCC/Legacy they would all cost more and the buyer would also have to purchase the TMCC or Legacy system to operate them with. That is their top of the line stuff and I think they want to keep it that way. LC & LC+ is not meant to be top of the line it is beginner to intermediate, totally different as it was intended to be. I think the fact that many of the more advanced and long time users are also purchasing LC & LC+ items is a big plus for Lionel and it seems to be very popular with everyone no matter what level of user they are in the hobby.

It has sparked my interest slightly and I have converted from not liking the idea at first to the 'it's a great idea' camp. Also I now think the separate remotes are a great idea, especially for a household with multiple children (each one can have their own remote and no fighting over who gets it or who has it) or on a larger DCS/Legacy/TMCC layout where you want to provide visitors or guests with a quick and easy way to run some trains. So far I haven't had the urge to purchase any LC or LC+ items, but I sure am not ruling out a future purchase.

I am looking forward to getting my LionChief+ Southern Railway NW2.  Shipping schedule shows July 2015 so hopefully they will be here this month.

Neal Jeter

I have mostly MTH and recently purchased the Batman subway set.  It doesn't seem to have very good speed control down my incline.   If it weren't for the runway subway on the incline I'd love set.    Does LionChief+ have speed control?  Is it larger than LionChief?

On a separate note, I have a question I've been meaning to ask my Lionel friends.  Is there a Legacy model that runs on O-48 curves?  I have a some MTH Premier heritage diesels that run on the smaller curves.  However; I purchased a Lionel heritage diesel and it wouldn't navigate the curves.  I'd love to buy a Legacy system but I need diesels that navigate the shorter curves.

LionChief has NO advantages over LionChief+.  Not familiar with the Batman subway cars, but as far as I know the original LionChief didn't have speed control.  Some of those locos didn't even have a flywheel.  Given a choice I would always take LC+.

A "universal" LC+ remote to control multiple locos would be a great thing.  Even with the issue of multiple remotes I like this product line.  Radio control direct to the loco was a long time in coming (although it probably could have been implemented 15 years ago by borrowing technology from other scales.)  It solves a LOT of problems: no "ground plane" issues with over-and-under layouts, no "out of RF range" or "check track" errors due to signals traveling through the rail and arriving out of phase.  Frankly, unless you were planning to control the whole railroad by computer, I'm not sure that there's any advantage to having a "command base."  And if Lionel does release a "universal remote" with a USB port, it might STILL be possible to control the whole railroad by computer!

Panther97: yes several Legacy models have been issued which run on O48 and smaller curves.  In steam you have the 0-8-0 switcher, 4-4-2 Atlantics and the 4-6-0 Ten Wheeler.  Not sure about the K-4 and Southern Crescent but even if they make it they won't look right, with a lot of overhang.  Among diesels I'm pretty sure the GP-9s were rated for O-36, maybe some other 4-axle models too.  The Alco S-4 switchers had a shaft drive but I think they will make it around O-48.  Note, all of these are true scale models.  LionChief+ (at least the steam locos) are "traditional sized," which means they will look right at home with Plasticville buildings, postwar and MPC rolling stock.

Personally I would like to see Lionel expand this product line AND bring out a universal remote with USB port for computer control.  My $.02.

The major plus of LionChief and LionChief Plus is that you are getting what is essentially command control at more affordable prices.  LionChief Thomas sets could be had for $120 last Christmas and currently from Charles Ro on sale.  There is literally nothing else like it in that price range, and as pointed out, no need to purchase additional equipment to operate multiple locos simultaneously and independently on a layout.  Obviously these economy sets are not designed primarily for the scale three rail hobbyist. They provide the lowest cost entry point for the hobby, and each set or loco has its own remote, so this promotes the ability of multiple folks operating together without investing in full boat command control.  I wish they had been available when our kids were little .

Finally, the multiple remotes means that if your cab-1, cab-2 or DCS remote dies, you still can operate your locomotives while you await repair.  The multiple remotes are a feature, not a bug in that way.  The universal remote which is planned will add additional flexibility for those who want that approach.

You can operate them alongside command equipped locos and conventional locos in most circumstances, so what's not to like?

TrainroomGary wrote:

  I like the Lionel Chief Plus engines for visitors that visit my train room. I have 19 engines on MTH / DCS, the concept of teaching all that to a first timer is to much. I can hand them a Lionel Chief Plus engine and they are up and running.

GREAT IDEA!

Peter

I also have mostly MTH, but here are two Lionel Legacy scale diesels I have that are rated for O-36 curves per Lionel's website. They come in other road names. I have only O-54 and O-63 so I have no way to test the smaller curves.

6-81138 - BNSF SD70MAC Diesel Engine (Legacy)

6-39571 - BNSF Dash 9-44CW Diesel Engine (Legacy)

Lion Chief + is smaller like O-27 size (maybe slightly larger?) and they will probably do even smaller curves, but I am not that familiar with them as I don't yet have any. They also have cruise control as others have stated.

A lot of those large modern diesels were designed with blind inside wheels, swinging pilots, etc., with an eye toward expanding the potential sales base.  To my eyes smaller equipment looks better on sharp curves.  

 What kind of rolling stock and structures do you have?  There is no "right" or "wrong," but IMO scale looks better with scale, and semi-scale looks more natural on a traditional toy train layout.  Both have their merits.  Many of us don't have the room needed to build an elaborate layout with wide-radius curves.  To me the beauty of LC+ is some fine running traditionally-sized locos at an affordable price point.

You're welcome. The SD70MAC is fairly recent and may still be available somewhere? The Dash-9 I got a couple of years ago. I would imagine there are others in Lionel's current catalog as well, however the have gone to the 'Built to Order' system for many of the new ones. Some of the larger dealers may have extras when they ship? I think the Legacy sounds are really good, but I like them all, both MTH and Lionel.

Good Luck.

Perhaps a bit more care in the wiring would eliminate the issue of looking for problems.  I wouldn't want to look through that rat's nest for issues either!

I run conventional and the idea of converting to TMCC does not appeal to me.  I got a LionChief plus so my grandson can use the remote and I find I use that engine a lot even when he is not around.