NASG membership

Tom, I'm a member of the NASG; and I have submitted photos, articles, and videos for the magazine over the years.

Terry O'Kelly

Carlisle, MA

Terry, I am also.  But by the response, it would seem we are the only ones.  I know that's not true... maybe we are the only ones willing to admit it???

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

My goodness,

There must be a few more NASG members on the forum, this is summer season and many people let train stuff go for the warm weather days.

I also am a NASG member, Flyer/highrail guy. I run with Legacy, and now have two Bluetooth Blunami DCC, locomotives that can run with my Legacy equipment.

Ray

I have been a member of the NASG for nearly 30 years and am planning on attending the 2024 convention in Harrisburg. As a personal observation, the NASG has been historically rather neglectful of the Gilbert/Lionel Flyer side of the S hobby. As a consequence, many Flyer folks I know have little interest in the NASG so one may not get many responses here. The organization and the Dispatch have been recently making some effort in a change in direction but there is a lot of ground to be made up as a result of neglecting the majority in the S hobby for so long, regrettably.

For what it is worth.

Bob

I was going to stay quiet, but since Bob Bubeck commented, I will also. I have been an American Flyer and S gauge operator, and collector, literally my entire life. There were times that I also had HO and N gauge but I still had the American Flyer. When I started collecting seriously in the early 1980's I traveled a lot for business. I was able to attend at least one, sometimes two train shows a month in different parts of the country. It provided the opportunity to talk with and learn from many of the "old" experts. When I asked about NASG, the feedback was "they are just scale", "there is no benefit for you to join", "they really do not want American Flyer people", and "you would just be wasting your money." I heard this for 25 years, so I never joined.

Starting in 2008 I began adding Lionel TMCC and Legacy items, plus engines and rolling stock from American Models and SHS. NASG does now have a good historical library of high rail items but not really anything for building a layout, operating with Legacy or conversion of AM engines to TMCC/Railsounds.

In 2015 when I was having my layout designed and built NASG had nothing, but fortunately there were a lot of ads in the S Gaugian and in CTT relevant to high rail sources. There was only one source for numbered high rail turnouts, but unfortunately for us he shut down the business before we could place the order. That was our very own Tom Stoltz. However, Tom had excellent videos of his turnouts posted. I had the layout builder watch them, then approved a change order for the layout builder to hand lay turnouts similar to Tom's. Fortunately Tom proved turnouts could be built that allowed both scale and high rail equipment to be used. NASG had nothing useful.

For someone who operates high rail with AC/Legacy/LCS, I see nothing about the organization that would benefit me. I have no plans to use DCC and no plans to use dead rail on the layout.

Im my collection I have plenty of AM, SHS, AF, LAF, etc., but mostly I design my own 1:64 motive power, which are the rare heavy vintage diesel locomotives. Once there was published an article in the NASG online magazine (S RESOURCE Oct./Nov. 2020) about one of my S scale modeling projects. I need to find some sparetime to write another article for the NASG magazine about my ongoing S scale projects. I miss the S Gaugian.

Unfortunately the S gauge community is divided in so many groups, fine-scalers vs. hi-railers, AC vs. DC, analog vs. digital, Legacy vs. DCC, etc., which is alltogether a rather small market, any way.

Johannis

I joined the NASG 2 or 3 decades ago and recently renewed my membership. I'm primarily a hi-railer but dabble in "scale" equipment as well. What I enjoy about membership includes their monthly print publication "The Dispatch" which contains a lot of info on Gilbert and Lionel AF as well as the other "S" manufacturers: AM, SHS, etc. The "how to" articles are well done by contributing members. I have attended several NASG conventions over the years and found them well-stocked with almost any product from any manufacturer that one could wish for. Last year in Harrisburg, I bought a few things as my budget would allow and had some great conversations with vendors that all of you probably know, at least by name. The problem with the NASG, as I see it, is their inability to get the word out to both members and non-members. Here is a perfect example: I was toying with returning to Harrisburg next month and knew that the convention hotel had an NASG room rate. Yesterday I went to book the room and discovered I had missed the reservation window by a couple of days. This got me to thinking: has there been anything on this forum at all about the convention? I haven't seen anything. I checked the NASG Facebook page and there is nothing I could find there either except someone asked a question about it that went unanswered. I know it is a volunteer organization but if no one knows about your main annual event, you'll have a tough time getting people to show up. Members know about it from the Dispatch but how hard would it be to post updates somewhere other than nasg.org about preferred room rates expiring or the annual convention car offering this year? Just doing that could generate some new memberships by making people aware that the NASG exists. And that is the end of my rant,

ps. "S" Scale Resource Magazine is not an NASG publication

Folks, if you want to attract members, you have to think more broadly than just this forum. So far in this thread, no one has explained exactly what “NASG” stands for, and no one has posted a link to the NASG web site.

NASG = NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF S GAUGERS

WEB SITE LINK

There ya go.

@Rich Melvin posted:

So far in this thread, on one has explained exactly what “NASG” stands for, and no one has posted a link to the NASG web site.

NASG = NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF S GAUGERS

WEB SITE LINK

There ya go.

Rich, I did in the original post.  I didn't link the website because I'm not recruiting.  I am having a separate discussion with another NASG member about why a lot of S people feel the NASG is more about scale than the other aspects of S, Hi-rail and Flyer.

The posts here have been interesting, illuminating, and helpful.  I hope more people join in.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

@Tom Stoltz posted:

The posts here have been interesting, illuminating, and helpful.  I hope more people join in.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

There are 7 Board of Trustees, just out of interest, how many of them fall into being predominantly classed as a hirailer/tinplate person for their S interest?

The same question goes for the 14 other support roles.

Out of the 21 above where do they fall within being an S person for standard or narrow gauge?

@Ukaflyer posted:

There are 7 Board of Trustees, just out of interest, how many of them fall into being predominantly classed as a hirailer/tinplate person for their S interest?

The same question goes for the 14 other support roles.

Out of the 21 above where do they fall within being an S person for standard or narrow gauge?

I know the Executive VP has a Hi-rail layout with some Flyer accessories using SHS flex and Tom's Turnouts.  I don't know if he runs any scale, but I do know he could if he chose.  I can't tell the difference between Hi-rail  and scale from the pictures but overall the layout looks like scale. to.  https://www.nasg.org/Layouts/S/indexTempletonLouY.php

The rest, I don't know.  I tried to figure out the BOT from the NASG website but only found two current BOT members.  So this is an interesting question.

In searching NASG member's layouts, there is no Hi-rail category.  Only AF and S (standard-gauge) are mentioned – aside from the narrow gauges.  However there are a lot of layouts to look at and you don’t have to be a member to look.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

I have been to Lou’s home, it is in the southwest suburbs of Pittsburgh. The layout is all highrail, I am sure it could run scale wheeled equipment. The AF accessories at the time I was there were the log loader, several bridges and a crossing gate.

Here is a picture I took of two Tom’s Turnouts on Lou’s layout. The track is SHS flex.

@Tom Stoltz posted:

I know the Executive VP has a Hi-rail layout with some Flyer accessories using SHS flex and Tom's Turnouts.  I don't know if he runs any scale, but I do know he could if he chose.  I can't tell the difference between Hi-rail  and scale from the pictures but overall the layout looks like scale. to.  https://www.nasg.org/Layouts/S/indexTempletonLouY.php

The rest, I don't know.  I tried to figure out the BOT from the NASG website but only found two current BOT members.  So this is an interesting question.

In searching NASG member's layouts, there is no Hi-rail category.  Only AF and S (standard-gauge) are mentioned – aside from the narrow gauges.  However there are a lot of layouts to look at and you don’t have to be a member to look.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Visited the link and it is a really nice looking detailed layout, one that a lot of people would be proud to own.

As I posted above, I have not been a member of the NASG, and not for any good reason. I do use the resources open to the public on their site. There is a link to a video of my layout in the S gauge layout section.

I frequently use the NASG Resources section for documentation of SHS and American Models production. According to the documentation, SHS made two PMKY/NYC boxcars. One is #83891, the other is #83401. There is a good picture of the 83891 car on the NASG site. I have been looking for one for six years, I bought a new 83401 seven years ago. One finally showed up, so I quickly purchased it.

When the car was delivered yesterday I quickly opened the box and carefully got the car out of its OB. I was surprised to see it was a scale version and had been artfully weathered by its previous owner. I obviously did not study the listing carefully.  It is extremely well done but I prefer all “new” cars. I did install highrail couplers but left the scale wheels since my layout is designed and built to operate both scale and high rail equipment.

At this point I once again looked at the picture of 83891 on the NASG site. I will spare us all the details I have looked at but have determined that the car I now have is the very same car that was photographed for the NASG site. So now I am pleased I purchased this specific car, it feels like I have a small piece of S gauge reference documentation.

Pictures below of the side of my car that is shown on the NASG site. Even the scale couplers are the same, they have no uncoupling pins.

After using their site as a reference resource and viewing the publicly available issues of the Dispatch for quite a few years, I joined NASG last summer.  I felt my membership would benefit the S gauge community.  Recently I have begun to take advantage of the library resources.  The librarian is very responsive,  I received my documents via email in less than 2 hours after sending the request.  There are over 52,000 magazine articles available at no cost to members.

PHM

For someone who operates high rail with AC/Legacy/LCS, I see nothing about the organization that would benefit me. I have no plans to use DCC and no plans to use dead rail on the layout.

Tom

Tom, I did not come back to comment on your refusal to join NASG til now. I, myself being Flyer/highrail operator have been in NASG for several years, I like you run Legacy/TMCC, and also conventional, and of late have added DCC through the Blunami. I like the magazine, it's the only one dedicated to S, I had heard the stories that "they" were only scalers which was bunk. I do admit with the change of leadership of late I was concerned where they would go but, so far the promotion of the NASG is "S" gauge. I understand there is friction between "Flyer People" and "Scalers" but I don't understand why. My layout is all Gilbert Flyer track with the Gilbert switches though modified to move the motors under the scenery. I made my layout available for the layout tour after our "2020" S Fest, and the scale people who did visit my layout did not comment on track, rolling stock or scenery, they said they liked the speed at which my trains ran. I do run my trains at slow speeds because there is more than one train running per "loop" but, also because I think it looks better when you can see the individual cars rather than a blur of color. The friction between these groups will not benefit "S" in general  it will only make it shrink more than it already has. Our Badgerland clubhouse is shared with an HO gauge club, there is no friction between their members whether scale or the more toy train group, why it happens in S, "shrugged shoulders" but it does. I believe the NASG is good for "S" toy train or scale and right now S is on life support. You may find that what you do and share may benefit others in S gauge.

Just my 2 cents worth,

Ray

Ray, thanks for your detailed reply. As I said, I did not have a good reason for failing to join NASG other than inertia from old comments from Gilbert high railers. I have been to Lou Templeton's home (NASG EVP) to look at his layout. It has the same design philosophy and similar operating equipment as my layout. That shows there are non scale views and interests in the NASG leadership. I have also engaged with NASG to provide photographs of a number of less common cars for their use in the Product Gallery section. Just need to fill out the paperwork and send the money.

Here is my observation on how fast trains run on my layout. The switching speed range is determined by the ability of a given engine to run well at very slow speeds. Some are better than others. The operating speed range is determined by the sound of the engine. Engines with four chuffs/revolution are instinctively run between 30 and 60SMPH. It sounds good and looks good. When I put a two chuff/revolution engine on the layout I find myself unintentionally running it much faster.

@BetaNuSigmaPhi posted:

...snip... Unfortunately the S gauge community is divided in so many groups, fine-scalers vs. hi-railers, AC vs. DC, analog vs. digital, Legacy vs. DCC, etc., which is altogether a rather small market, any way.

Johannis

Just like O!

EDIT: Note that I have just two S cars, an AF single-dome tanker and an AF depressed-center flat; both to eventually be converted to On2½.

I received a Flyer PRR 310 for Christmas and was glad that Santa had brought the 2 rail track. Gave up the trains when in High school and didn't dabble again until 1988 when a fella dropped into my retail hobby shop near New Orleans wanting to be a Lionel Service Station. We became friends and my dad brought over my original set with a couple of red heavyweights he had saved and George rebuilt them to run. I was hooked and we added trains to the inventory of RC planes and off road cars. I gradually learned the vast number systems of Lionel and Flyer and had some SHS and American Models equipment but S never developed a customer base other than me!

I joined NASG for a few years but let it go when closing shop after 6 years or so due to health reasons with my wife and two new little boys.  Recently I bought this handsome Lionel Flyer SR Mikado and have it on a display shelf at home. She's impressive along with the MTH Premiere model as well barely visible in lower right corner below.  Would like to operate it some time as several folks have said the RS 5 in it is really nice. Don't know of any S gaugers within 100 miles from here however. An S gauge club used to attend our 2 regional shows but they have been absent for probably 2 years now...

C.sam, a conventional transformer with bell and whistle buttons can trigger most of the Railsounds dialogs. I sometimes run mine on a conventional track rather than with Legacy. All that is needed is some track. Not many have the same model in S as well as in O.

Thanks Tom, I have TMCC and DCS for my O scale equipment but no S gauge track at all.  No place to run it either other than a shelf if I had some track.  She's very well detailed which is what caught my eye. Here is is with the MTH model below. Also a HO mike lettered 'Maggie Valley Southern'

"When I asked about NASG, the feedback was "they are just scale," "there is no benefit for you to join," "they really do not want American Flyer people," and "you would just be wasting your money." I heard this for 25 years, so I never joined."

The NASG is aware of this perception and trying to make more American Flyer and high-rail modelers feel more welcome. The latest issue of the NASG The Dispatch magazine (September/October issue) is almost entirely devoted to an American Flyer layout and the American Flyer "Freedom Train" model. The previous issue discussed the distinctions between American Flyer, high-rail, and scale modelers without denigrating any of them. The Dispatch is actively looking for more submissions to the magazine for photos, how-to articles, and layouts of American Flyer and high-rail models. Modelers don't even have to be experts in writing; Dispatch editors can turn sufficient information into interesting articles and work with anyone who wants to be published.

I joined the NASG a few years back because their website was so informative, helpful, and up-to-date with the latest information on 1/64th scale product releases. All issues of The Dispatch older than a year are freely available without membership; so after I poured through most of them for free, I decided to support that kind of effort of not only maintaining the treasure of a website but also issuing the magazine six times a year. The fee is less than half the cost of a boxcar these days and well worth it.

Terry

The reason I don't join is easy: retirement cut my income 50%, I have no money for things I don't urgently need.

As a matter of fact, I am selling off alot of my railroad and other model collections.

Retirement ain't what they claim.

@TOKELLY posted:

I decided to support that kind of effort of not only maintaining the treasure of a website but also issuing the magazine six times a year. The fee is less than half the cost of a boxcar these days and well worth it.

Terry

For the cost, I don't understand why anyone running S gauge trains isn't a NASG member.  It is our community.  Being a member allows you to find other members in your area and in Maine that is big.  If you are not a member, how would other S gaugers find out that you exists?

I recently joined the NASG FB group.  To my surprise, just going by what I see there, I would think the NASG is a Flyer organization.  Certainly on the .io S scale group there is a real basis in favor of scale.  And there are people there who talk about Flyer and Hi-rail despairingly.  However lately when someone makes a putdown remark, they are generally taken to task for it.  So I think the tolerance for Flyer and Hi-rail is improving.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

For the more skeptical among us,  I encourage you to take a look at the latest Sept./Oct. issue of the NASG DISPATCH. It is almost wall-to-wall Flyer. An excellent issue IMHO.

Bob

The above positive comments should go a long way to improve relations within the S gauge community for sure - Thanks guys!

Bob, Tom, and c.sam,

I received my latest issue of the Dispatch, and actually I was shocked by what I saw, it made me a little uneasy. I would prefer to see a more balanced coverage of scale and highrail/flyer. I wonder now if there may be a kickback from the scale people as thére was from flyer folks a while back, we need both side if S gauge is going to survive. Now with Flyonel on the sidelines new power if it comes at all will likely come from American Models but only if there is demand for it. I don't have many years left to enjoy S but hopefully S will survive me.

Ray

@Rayin"S" posted:

Bob, Tom, and c.sam,

I received my latest issue of the Dispatch, and actually I was shocked by what I saw, it made me a little uneasy. I would prefer to see a more balanced coverage of scale and hightail/flyer. I wonder now if there may be a kickback from the scale people as thére was from flyer folks a while back, we need both side if S gauge is going to survive. Now with Flyonel on the sidelines new power if it comes at all will likely come from American Models but only if there is demand for it. I don't have many years left to enjoy S but hopefully S will survive me.

Ray

Though glad to see 'some' Flyer, I was surprised too.  I agree it was a little over the top BOTOH long over due.  I would think a mix would be a better approach.  My first impression to the cover was 'this looks like a fun layout' as apposed to yet another scale layout that could be any scale because you can't tell the difference in a picture.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

@Rayin"S" posted:

Bob, Tom, and c.sam,

I received my latest issue of the Dispatch, and actually I was shocked by what I saw, it made me a little uneasy. I would prefer to see a more balanced coverage of scale and hightail/flyer. I wonder now if there may be a kickback from the scale people as thére was from Flyer folks a while back, we need both side if S gauge is going to survive. <snip>

Ray

Well, there is some making up to do for about 30 years to neglect.   I do not believe that the editor of the DISPATCH is going to lean this heavy on Flyer in every issue. There is lots of good stuff in it. Enjoy.

Bob

I had been a member of NASG for a number of years, but when I took a sabbatical from the hobby for a number of reasons, I dropped out of NASG. Now that I have dived back in, I just rejoined. I realized after reading this post, there really is no other place to get information, how-to, and other interesting articles on S-scale, now that the S Gaugion is gone.

Thanks for goading me into action.

Although there are several pictures of mine used on that site (including the "EMD History" video ), and do refer to the site often, I am guilty of not yet joining.

Shame on me...will have to do that. 

Mark in Oregon

It's been very interesting reading everybody's comments about the NASG and the Dispatch. I am the NASG's webmaster, so I can offer a bit more insight into the various comments and topics.

First, the NASG supports A.C. Gilbert American Flyer, modernday AF, hi-rail, scale, and the various narrow-gauges. On the web site we even push it a bit further by also supporting 1:64 vehicle and farm modeling. There is no inherent bias toward one style of modeling over another. Yes, individuals have their own personal preferences, but as far as the organization is concerned, there is no bias. I have been the webmaster for over 12 years now (I joined the NASG in 2008 when I switched from N-scale) and I have seen none of that in any of the behind-the-scenes discussions.

I can use myself as an example. In my own modeling efforts I am a border-line "rivet counter", modeling to exact 1:64 scale and trying to model without compromise or compression a 1:64th representation of the real thing. I, personally, have never owned any A.C. Gilbert items. Yet, I very much enjoy keeping the web site updated and I spend as much time as is required to keep the A.C.G. listing of products updated in the web site's "Product Gallery". As a matter of fact, I just went through every single flat car ever produced in S to make sure that all entries are there, have the latest info and model photos, and added a number of missing items. I try to figure out all the differences between the A.C.G. cars, and I look for videos on YouTube demonstrating the models in action. See: https://www.nasg.org/Gallery/Products/FlatCars.php

The Dispatch is a magazine. And, the Dispatch does not have a staff of paid professional authors, like the "big guys" do, such as Model Railroader, for example. Every single article that you see in the NASG's The Dispatch is written, co-written, and/or edited by a member of the NASG, and submitted to the Dispatch editor for publishing consideration. So, the Sep/Oct 2024 issue had a lot of hi-rail/AF articles in it because, I suspect (and I am NOT involved in editing the Dispatch) that those were the articles the editor received. He can only publish those articles that he receives. So, sometimes he gets more "scale" articles, sometimes more "hi-rail" articles, and sometimes more "AF/A.C.G." articles). So, I would recommend that one evaluate the Dispatch over a longer-term period rather than one or two issues. You can look at the free issues to get an idea that all modeling styles are well-represented over a period of time, e.g. a year.

I know from experience, because I like to keep content on the NASG web site fresh, the reality of actually receiving photos and content. When you go to the home page (https://www.nasg.org/) you will see a photo rotation. Those are all photos individual modelers took of their S layout, module, or items, and e-mailed to me for use on the home page. I rotate one of those photos out every Sunday. I can only use the photos that people send me (and I could possibly use photos of my own modeling efforts). So, while it may appear that "scale" modeling is heavily represented in those home page photo rotations, it is a simple fact that I just don't receive hardly any photos from those who enjoy A.C. Gilbert style or hi-rail modeling. Likewise, narrow-gauge modeling photos are also a rarity.

So, I would encourage every one who reads this message to pick up your digital camera or your cellphone and take some photos of your layout, your module, your small diorama on the shelf, your recently completed kit, your newly-painted engine or car, your club's latest set-up at a local show, or a photo you took at someone's home layout (and you received permission from them to share your photo of their layout), and send it the NASG Dispatch editor (Dan Dawdy at dispatch@nasg.org), or to me (Peter Vanvliet at webmaster@nasg.org). Proper photo credit will be given.

Also, if you have an open house or your club has an S layout set up at a local train show, be sure to get some promotional material that the NASG makes available. See here: https://www.nasg.org/About/PromotionsTrifolds.php.

Spend some time clicking around the NASG web site. We have over 67,000 pages there now, with well over 16,000 products documented! I update the site nearly every single day, so there is always something new to see.

But, above all, enjoy our wonderful hobby!

- Peter.

@Bob Bubeck posted:

Well, there is some making up to do for about 30 years to neglect.   I do not believe that the editor of the DISPATCH is going to lean this heavy on Flyer in every issue. There is lots of good stuff in it. Enjoy.

Bob

I am not saying there was pressure to do that issue in all Flyer Hi-Rail but it was suggested ;-)

It's a balancing act to put together are good magazine that has something for everyone. The November/December issue just went to the printers and I think this issue will tick all the boxes.

In case anyone does not know me, I am the editor of The Dispatch. I took over about three years ago to help bring some continuity to the magazine.

We are always looking for articles for Scale, Flyer and Hi-Rail so let us know what you have in the works.

The free on-line bimonthly S Gauge Resource, which was primarily of interest to non-Flyer hobbyists, has stopped publishing, so the NASG publication is now literally the only game in town. I'm not an S gauger, but I'm interested in Flyer and its history, so I think I may spring for the $30 a year (quite reasonable) just to support their efforts.

For those interested in Gilbert history, there is the AC Gilbert Historical Society. They mainly focus on non-Flyer Gilbert products (Erector, chemistry sets, etc), although they occasionally have some Flyer stuff.  Their annual convention was held in 2023 in New Haven, the home of the Gilbert company. Some of Gilbert's descendants are featured in this video about the convention. There are often displays of S gauge Flyer trains at the Whitney Museum in New Haven for those interested.

https://www.acghs.org/?p=11741

https://www.eliwhitney.org/museum/gilbert-project

I received the email this morning from Dan Dawdy about the S Scale resource magazine ceasing publication. It is unfortunate, it was an informative and high quality publication.