Need ideas on how to make a living working on trains.

Sorry to hear about your unemployment. I have had the same thoughts myself, IMHO the biggest and most time consuming obstacle would be building a loyal clientele by proving that your work is reliable and timely, unless you already have the connections.  Also would you have the knowledge and resources to repair new stuff? Would you have to be certified by MTH for decent parts access?  Just some thoughts...Good Luck in pursuing your new venture!

Jeff

First sorry to hear about your job, but do you have all the necessary equipment to do the job right ( i.e. a arbor press and all of its attachments.) If so maybe talk to OGR about a add as in Postwar/prewar train repairs. I'm sure you have ways to get your parts other than EBAY, I know some goto train shows just to get junkers for the parts. Do you have the room for say 1000 different parts, to keep on hand. These are all things I considered when I was thinking of the same thing. 

Sorry for your job loss. There is a way to achieve your goal; if you'd like to end up with a million dollars or so in twenty years.

Start out with two million dollars now.

Sorry to hear about your job loss but I can easily understand why you now want to work for yourself.

First, I think you have to take on repairs for modern trains as well as classic pre-war and post-war trains. MTH used to sponsor courses to train technicians in repair of their products. Not sure if they still do but if they or Lionel still offer certification, I think you need to get it.

Put some ads in OGR or other model railroad magazines to offer your services.

Is there a hobby shop in your area who would be willing to direct some business to you?

Purchase some trains in need of repair, fix them up and take a table at some train shows and offer them for sale. The buyers will come back to you when they need service.

Do the train repair on a part-time basis while looking for another job to keep yourself afloat. Go to full time operation when the business can support it.

There are others on the Forum who can give you better advice than I can. In the long run, I think you could make a go of it - but probably never become wealthy...

Good luck.

MELGAR

Jackson summed it up pretty well. Not likely you could make much of living just working on trains. At the very least you would have to get enrolled in MTH and Lionel tech school. That will give some knowledge as well as access to parts at wholesale.

Pete

Thanks for your suggestions and I definitely got a chuckle on the losing a million dollars over 20 years....I've already spent too much over the past few months!!  As for doing repair work I have pretty much everything that's needed.  Arbor press, wheel puller, small tools, drill bits, taps, wire, wire connectors and a steadily growing supply of old parts that I've acquired.  I looked into becoming a certified Lionel/MTH repair center for the newer stuff but they are no longer holding classes....I would however consider myself quite adept repairing prewar trains.  I can get a broken super motor rewired, cleaned, brushes replaced etc quite quickly.  I'm also good with fixing e units, pendulum reverse units, hand reverse switches, headlight wiring and bild a loco motors as well.  I appreciate the suggestion about talking with OGR to see if I could get my name out as a quality repair man.

It might be a good idea to build your clientele while continuing your 9-5 job until you get a decent business started.    Or maybe  you are ready to retire and have some cash flow from retirement savings.   

I think there is an opportunity there because a lot of people who buy new stuff and collect old stuff don't have much interest in restoration and repair, or don't have the skills and tools.    So once you got a reputation you could probaly build a decent business.   

In 2 rail there are a couple of guys that are doing custom work and seem to be doing it full time successfully.   I have a friend who specializes in painting and customizing models to  specific prototypes.    he started doing it while working and then the company shut down and he became full time.   the last time I talked to him before the lockdown, he had over a year backlog working full time.    And Joe Forhkolb ? spelling, seemed to have a good business doing mechanical repair work and machining on both 2 and 3 rail product.   

A big caution however, once it becomes a job, it may not be a hobby anymore and may not be as much fun.

@TinplateDave posted:

Thanks for your suggestions and I definitely got a chuckle on the losing a million dollars over 20 years....I've already spent too much over the past few months!!

Yeah!  Like most people in the hobby business can attest to, if you want to make a small fortune in the model railroad hobby, you gotta' start with a large fortune!

@TinplateDave posted:

Hello all, I just thought I would throw this out there since I recently became unemployed due to Covid-19 and have spent the last 3 months repairing, refurbishing and restoring my old postwar O gauge and prewar Standard gauge trains.  I spend at least 8hrs a day with my hobby and I don't want to stop to go back to a 9-5 job.  Does anyone have any ideas about how one can make a living with model trains nowadays?  Based on what I see on eBay most people are either selling off their old collections or selling parts but i'm wondering what else is out there?  Any suggestions would be welcome and thank you!

I assume you would have medical coverage from a spouse or Medicare?  If not, illness or accident could have you wishing for your 9-5 job.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

I assume you would have medical coverage from a spouse or Medicare?  If not, illness or accident could have you wishing for your 9-5 job.

Rusty

Yes I am currently covered under my wife's insurance.  I wish I was retired and could work on my hobby with no worry about income but i'm 41 and still have quite a few working years ahead of me.  I'm just sick and tired of working in corporate jobs and want to make a living doing something I love for once.

@TinplateDave posted:

Yes I am currently covered under my wife's insurance.  I wish I was retired and could work on my hobby with no worry about income but i'm 41 and still have quite a few working years ahead of me.  I'm just sick and tired of working in corporate jobs and want to make a living doing something I love for once.

I'd go for it if I were you.  

I wished I would have done something like that.  Unfortunately, like that famous philosopher Al Bundy once said, "I haven't asked for much in life, and lord knows, I've gotten it!"

But I am too close to retirement now.  It's too late for me. 

I think the comments about gaining a following are key.  Also, there are many hobby shops that need repair help, you might get hooked up with one of them doing repairs.  That would also help establish your reputation and getting your name around.

@prrjim posted:

  And Joe Forhkolb ? spelling, seemed to have a good business doing mechanical repair work and machining on both 2 and 3 rail product.   

A big caution however, once it becomes a job, it may not be a hobby anymore and may not be as much fun.

Joe Foehrkolb is a good friend of mine who lives less than 5 miles from me. I have the very first locomotive that Joe converted from 3 to 2 rail (an MTH New Haven electric) which was the dominant part of his business. As Jim stated, it became a job and Joe grew to hate doing it and no longer does any work.

How much do you expect to make on an annual basis by repairing trains?

You have to consider if that is viable to live on?  Do you think that your business(earnings) will remain the same or grow in the coming years? or will it decline?

Dave

Kudos to the creativity to you are considering. It seems that your mindset is where the rest of us working people need to be. I agree with most of the comments you have already received. The other aspect would be layout building. I'm not sure how your skills are with that. If skilled you could build layouts for people or even just help with a certain aspect of the layout(bench work, wiring, design, scenery, etc.)

I do part-time work for a great guy who does it for a living. He does quite well for himself and has established a great reputation over the years. He travels the entire country installing layouts. As a matter of fact he helped with my bench work and did the majority of my wiring. 

Dave

Thanks everyone.  You all have very good points and have given me a lot to think about.  I surely do not want my favorite hobby to ever become something I dislike or think of as just a job.  My thought is that if you truly enjoy what your doing then more opportunities surrounding that will present themselves.

An item that you may want to consider is self-employment tax. When you work for another entity such as a company 1/2 of Social Security is paid by the company and the other half by you. Same is true for Medicare. Your earnings when your are self-employed are subject to the full Social Security and Medicare tax rates. This is the so-called self-employment tax and it currently stands at 15.3%. It has been as high as 20% in the recent past. The self-employment tax is on top of your income tax. Every dime you make is subject to the self-employment tax regardless of the amount of income. Even though income may not reach minimum taxable levels, that income is still subject to the self-employment tax.  If you earn enough to be in the 39% income tax bracket, you could pay as much as 54.3% of your earnings in taxes,and that's solely on the Federal level. You may have to pay even more based upon the state you live in. 

The nice thing about being self-employed is that anything needed to operate your business is tax deductible. An example would be medical insurance. 

Over the long term, this might be a viable business or a good sideline. Most of the people entering the hobby today are not familiar with mechanical systems or electronics and won't become technicians or do their own maintenance and repairs. There are a lot of O gauge trains out there and more are being sold with every new catalog. In the future, someone will inherit or buy them, adopt the hobby, and need repairs.

MELGAR

IMO, the most significant thing is to have as close to zero debt as possible. The less you owe every month, the less you can make that month and still succeed.

Is your wife on board with this? That's actually more important than number one.

You can charge higher rates for working on expensive stuff than you can working on cheap stuff.

If you are sticking with trains, that means being a top notch repairer of the newest command controlled trains. It also might mean that you can work on high end Standard gauge trains, where the skills are quite different.

Are you generally handy and love to fix things? Maybe you could add smart phone repair. Cases, screens and tools are readily available online from China. You would need a small stock of the most popular parts. "How-to" videos are on YouTube for almost everything that is current/popular/trendy.

Good points by WBC on being self employed.  Incorporating a company is the best way to go and also limit liability and probably taxes.

We have a member, Bill Harrison of S and W Parts on the forum that has S and W Parts as a business selling parts and making repairs for model trains.  He may be a good reference and source on the business of repairing model trains.  S and W Parts is a forum sponsor and advertises in OGR magazine.

He is S AND W here and at trains@sandwparts.com and WWW.SANDPARTS.COM

He is also a LIONEL PARTS DEALER AS WELL AS LIONEL SERVICE STATION 91

Charlie

As a former hobby shop owner in 70's, I sold out and was glad I did. I was in a city of about 85,000 folks and 2 other hobby shops to contend with. So let's do an exercise. Let's say you make $1.00 for the year. Your parts cost around 60 cents. So now you only have .40 cents left. That is a 40% discount on parts. That expense is on going. you will need tools, don't buy them from Harbor Freight. you have taxes insurance, perhaps your bride doesn't want your repair shop at the house. Some dealers won't allow that. They want you in a regular store front, $1000 a month. there is also something called product liability. Perhaps a repaired locomotive that you fixed suddenly runs off the table, falls on a child's foot and because you are a business owner, he sees dollar signs in his heads. He sues and wins. Where does that money come from the pay the lawyer, etc.

Let's say you want to make $40,000 a year. 10%, not bad. can you make 10%? That means you are doing $400.000 a year. that is a lot of repaired trains.

Sorry to rain on you parade.

Dick

Views from the CRYSTAL BALL DEPARTMENT ...

We read the news that train hobby stores are going out of business. The good news: their repair service must be replaced somehow - perhaps by you.  The bad news: many train hobby stores that offer repair service do it at a loss as "service after the sale," not a profit center. It would be difficult to compete against that reality.

Fortunately, not all "corporate jobs" are 9 to 5 drudgery. Your knack for repair work might be useful to a manufacturing company that must keep its materials processing machines running. If that's within your "acceptance zone," that kind of repair job would require the employer to provide part of SS and other payroll tax benefits on your behalf, perhaps a retirement program too. Then start your train repair business "on the side" and dedicate time and effort to its growth and eventual success. Fair warning -- it may be a long haul.

Other OGR FORUM guys mentioned the certification programs by Lionel and MTH. Since those helpful training programs are no longer available, it may mean those manufacturers consider there are "enough" train repair guys out there.

Postwar and modern era trains may be your focus, but many hobbyists seek repair service for their contemporary trains that are full of exotic circuitry. IMHO, that's where the money is - with $333 repair jobs, not $33 repairs.

In summary, "crawl, then walk before you try to run."

Mike Mottler     LCCA 12394

I know little about repair end, but the demographics bother me.  You need a career for 20-25 years, and this old coot and maybe a lot of others, with an interest in analog trains, will not be buying or wanting trains repaired.  Since today's maybe dwindling market is made up of digital trains, l think you would be forced to become skilled in that, which you may not love.  There is/was a poster here who said he worked in computers and didn't want electronics on his trains. A lot of people want and are buying digital trains, but they won't have skills to repair. That may be the long term market.  

@TinplateDave posted:

I would however consider myself quite adept repairing prewar trains.  I can get a broken super motor rewired, cleaned, brushes replaced etc quite quickly.  I'm also good with fixing e units, pendulum reverse units, hand reverse switches, headlight wiring and bild a loco motors as well.  I appreciate the suggestion about talking with OGR to see if I could get my name out as a quality repair man.

There’s lots of great advice from others above. I think a big problem is that everyone and anyone can claim what you wrote above. I don’t mean to offend at all, but these are rather simple tasks. How much is your time worth? How much time are you going to spend with these repairs, and then how much do you charge? Add in round trip shipping? As you noted in your first post, this part of the hobby is contracting, not expanding. As prices fall for this stuff, who is going to pay $100 to repair an item you can buy for $50? As others have suggested, repairing modern electronics might be your best bet.

@Sam Jumper posted:

There’s lots of great advice from others above. I think a big problem is that everyone and anyone can claim what you wrote above. I don’t mean to offend at all, but these are rather simple tasks. How much is your time worth? How much time are you going to spend with these repairs, and then how much do you charge? Add in round trip shipping? As you noted in your first post, this part of the hobby is contracting, not expanding. As prices fall for this stuff, who is going to pay $100 to repair an item you can buy for $50? As others have suggested, repairing modern electronics might be your best bet.

Everyone has made legitimate points and good input. Sam Jumper's point of repairing modern electronics is key. If you want to stay gainfully self employed you'll need to be able to do the trouble shooting and cross into other gauges as well. Would you feel comfortable working on N scale for instance? If you want to focus solely on O gauge is fine but better find another job/source of income while building your reputation. Selling what you've serviced would be a good start and indicator of feedback from customers. Be prepared to 'eat' a repair as well even if you feel it wasn't your fault. Best wishes on making a go of it!

Thanks again everyone this is invaluable information for me and I appreciate you all taking the time to give me the facts.  Based on what i'm hearing I think I am going to keep my hobby for myself and my kids enjoyment.  I have some valuable time right now to choose a new job path and I am going to try something new.  Not sure exactly what that will be but i'm optimistic about the future!

Hey Dave, you could make a living wage working on or working for 1:1 scale railroads. I know 3 guys that quit their jobs to work on the railroad and they never regretted it. 

Another consideration being self-employed is losing the 9-5 employer's 401K.  Sure there are plans for the self-employed, but many employers offer some kind of matching percentage.   I always maxed out my 401K contributions over the years and am glad I did.  If you may already have an IRA, you've at least got something to supplement Social Security (assuming it's still viable in 20-30 years.)

Retirement looks a long way off at 41, but it sneaks up on you...

Rusty

A couple of months ago I put up a repair on here and had NO responces to it. So i don't believe anyone is really interested in doing repairs.  I asked if anyone was interested in re-stringing a 165 magnet crane.

The one thing you haven't said is what your old job was. And you haven't mentioned what your income was or skill sets are, other than repairing trains. A lot of posters have suggested tradesman jobs for you, but I don't think you were looking for career ideas. I think you have enjoyed a respite from the corporate world, and I totally get that. The corporate world can be pretty dehumanizing.

I think your last post- that you will keep your hobby a hobby- is probably a good call. Turning a hobby into a job can take the pleasure out of it- the reason you started it in the first place.

Glad to hear you got your batteries recharged and some fresh perspective, though. Good luck with the new job search.

@Will posted:

The one thing you haven't said is what your old job was. And you haven't mentioned what your income was or skill sets are, other than repairing trains. A lot of posters have suggested tradesman jobs for you, but I don't think you were looking for career ideas. I think you have enjoyed a respite from the corporate world, and I totally get that. The corporate world can be pretty dehumanizing.

I think your last post- that you will keep your hobby a hobby- is probably a good call. Turning a hobby into a job can take the pleasure out of it- the reason you started it in the first place.

Glad to hear you got your batteries recharged and some fresh perspective, though. Good luck with the new job search.

Hi Will, for the last 5 years I worked in operations for an insurance company and before that I worked in a call center for 4 years, however I haven't always worked in a corporate job.  Right after high school I started working in factories doing assembly.  After doing that for a few years I landed a job as a service technician at a medical equipment company repairing various things like power wheelchairs, hospital beds etc.  I did that for 6 years and that's where I learned all my electro-mechanical skills.  After that I became a service technician for Sears doing laundry repairs in peoples homes.  I only did that a year because a friend of mine who worked for the Minnesota Commercial Railroad got me a job  working 12:00am to 8:30am as a warehouseman in the trans-load center.  It was an extremely dangerous job unloading massive steel coils from train cars with a ceiling crane and stacking them into rows to be loaded onto incoming semi trucks.  The reason I took the job besides the fact that I wanted to say that I worked for the railroad was that I actually drove an ALCO switcher on a nightly basis to pick up the new cars full of steel that were dropped off by the main line and brought the empty ones back up.  It was an amazing experience to say the least but I could only do it for a year before the hours and fear of being crushed got to me.  I attached a pic of the actual switcher I drove.  So i've done alot of things in my career and i'm interested to see what comes up next for me.

@TinplateDave posted:

Thanks again everyone this is invaluable information for me and I appreciate you all taking the time to give me the facts.  Based on what i'm hearing I think I am going to keep my hobby for myself and my kids enjoyment.  I have some valuable time right now to choose a new job path and I am going to try something new.  Not sure exactly what that will be but i'm optimistic about the future!

I think that’s your best move Dave. Find another career go to work do your thing from 9 to 5 and leave work at work! Enjoy the hobby and time with your kids before there grown. Life’s too short.    Good luck with your job search. 

Here's a good place to start:

https://up.jobs/index.htm

@eddie g posted:

A couple of months ago I put up a repair on here and had NO responces to it. So i don't believe anyone is really interested in doing repairs.  I asked if anyone was interested in re-stringing a 165 magnet crane.

Eddie G, just wondering what you would’ve been willing to pay for this repair? If the other person wasn’t close to you, round trip shipping alone $40-$50? String say $5. How much would reasonable labor cost? I’m just curious what others think.

@TinplateDave posted:

Yes I am currently covered under my wife's insurance.  I wish I was retired and could work on my hobby with no worry about income but i'm 41 and still have quite a few working years ahead of me.  I'm just sick and tired of working in corporate jobs and want to make a living doing something I love for once.

Another consideration regarding health insurance is the stability / longevity of your wife's employment.  If something happens to her job, the insurance is gone.  In addition to health insurance, there are also disability insurance, retirement plans, sick days, and vacation days to consider.  These things must all be paid for from the income you generate.

When I was about your age, I contemplated switching gears to doing something I liked.  The marketing and promotion was a killer - it's totally necessary, but takes a lot of time and it needs to be paid for by the rate you charge while providing the service.  

As I approach retirement, in hindsight I appreciate the value of the pension funds that remaining in a traditional job provided, along with the other benefits.  I'm glad that I continued to pursue the things I enjoyed as a hobby with the occasional sale on the side rather than as a full time job.  

Not sure if I'm adding any value here: first, the folks I work with (that sell parts and do repairs) are extremely busy right now. Henning's Trains in Lansdale, PA, works with several freelance repair guys and does a pretty good business in repairs. He also has all the parts, and does a great job either running them down or having them made.

You have to value your time, and price your work based on that. I build new trains, and find that it is challenging to get a reasonable hourly rate for my work, even though what I'm doing is unique.

Finding parts is getting more challenging. I have a good relationship will some of the people out there that are making parts or importing them. I spend a lot of time just locating and buying the parts, and I'm sure if I factored that

time in (which I usually don't), it means my average rate is much lower.

MTH is running out of parts for a lot of their products. The Chinese will only make parts and deliver when a run of finished trains is ordered. There is less of that going on now, so less parts coming into the country.  So for some of my engines and cars, I make sure I buy enough to do runs of each loco and/or passenger car. Was worried about getting tinplate couplers, but Joe Mania and Hennings will have them. Thankfully Harry is still making the MEW wheels, and seems to be able to find new die casters and sheet metal shops when the old guys go out of business.  Joe Mania has all the MEW tooling for the brass and sheet metal parts and is progressively remaking many parts, including the third rail shoes for Lionel, Ives and AF tinplate locos. It's great that the tooling still exists and that Joe is moving out to restore the availability of many parts.

Motors - probably not as much of a problem for you, but one of my lines (the former Harmon/Roberts Lines engines) require bild a loco motors. MTH is out of traditional BAL's and the can motor ones don't work with the current design. I picked up a bunch, but it's a significant up front investment, and at some point I may not be able to build any more unless I come up with a new design, or scrap out some MTH locos for parts.

One of the things I've learned: if you are able to customize, you can create a niche. I do all my own lettering, and use a vinyl cutting machine to cut it. Free software on the PC to do the fonts/striping, or recreate and emblem.

Almost nobody likes to paint (me included), so there are those that want restorations or alternative paint schemes and will pay. For the owner, the cost is hardly justified, but if you are getting something unique, they will pay, and who cares about the next owner. Offering something unique increases the value you add.

But the main thing is to build relationships out there. Folks need to know you exist. It's harder than you think with all the 'internet noise' these days. But persistence pays, it's something you need to remind people of now and again. I've been at it for about 4 years, and it is far from a full time job, I don't really want it to be, and so it's still fun to do.

Jim

Self-employment and the basic 15.3% Social Security payment needs to be considered. Yes, that is double the deduction, you would see from your pay check, each week.    What seems like a good charge-out rate of $50 per hour, may need to be $75, when you include the cost of health insurance and social security.   A lot to consider.  Self-employment is not for everyone. IMO,   Mike CT. 

$75/hr. may not be enough.  Often hourly rates are translated into piece, or part work.  

Collection another part of business to be considered.  

If your avocation becomes your vocation, what will be your escape from work? You may grow to dislike toy trains. I've seen it happen. Not with trains, but with boats. We had a "boat guy" who loved nothing more than to be on a boat all summer. Then, he took an opportunity to take over the family marine business, and was surrounded by boats all the time. It didn't take long before the thing he loved became a chore, and the last thing he wanted to do in his time off was go boating. It changed his personality, he became unpleasant to be around, so much so that we stopped doing business with him. 

If you really love toy/model trains, I encourage you to think very carefully about making them your means to earn a living rather than your hobby. 

I like to build O scale structure models and have two completed layouts with many of them. Now, the two layouts are finished and there is no more room for structure models. I considered advertising to offer model construction or building models to sell at train shows, but the economics don't justify it. I don't work quickly so it takes me perhaps 80 hours to complete an O scale model. If I build from a kit or from scratch and buy materials, for how much can I sell a model and earn more than a couple dollars an hour for my labor? Even if I build the model in 20 hours, how much would I earn? So, it remains a hobby, and that is just fine with me. Whatever models I build in the future, I will leave to my grand kids. But, I think that train repairs may be a different proposition, especially if it is done through a hobby shop.

MELGAR