We can still order the new Atlas O F-7s with Pre-Order Pricing through 4/27!

I only ordered nine of the GGD El Capitan cars, a combination of budget constraints and the fact that's all I could fit on the longest siding on my home layout.

I currently plan on pulling them with my Lionel SF scale F3's ABBA circa 2003 which has a powered A and a powered B.

I've never owned an Atlas locomotive, but these F7's look interesting.

I am not bashing Atlas F7's, because they will probably be very good runners.  All my Atlas diesels are double-tough and very reliable runners.

Usually, they have been very accurate with matching road numbers to the actual railroad-specific details.  However, this time they chose two numbers for their Santa Fe rednoses that are from different production phases and actually have different side vents, Farr stainless steel grilles, dynamic brake fans, sand filler doors, and rear roof overhang.  Also, there is the nose door headlight, which Santa Fe applied to its F-units after they were delivered and it is larger than the factory EMD lower headlight bezel.  There has been previous discussion of MTH delivering otherwise nice rednose F3's with only a single headlight like it had from the factory to the Santa Fe backshop, and does not represent the in-service appearance of the locomotives for 30 years.  I hope Atlas is not misguided in that respect.

I wrote to Jerry Kimble, to make him aware of these concerns.

Now, the reality of this is that most 3-rail O gauge model railroaders won't care, because the Atlas rednoses will run well and will look good, whether or not they are authentic enough for true devotees of my beloved Home Road.  HO scale and O scale modelers are usually aware of these differences and demand authenticity, so they receive it.

The Golden Gate cars are heavier than the MTH and Lionel cars which are common in 3-rail O Gauge, so the third powered unit would probably not be loafing, especially if you have any ascending grades.  I have to be careful on O72 curves when pulling 9 Golden Gate cars with my Sunset 3rd Rail 4-8-4, because the tender can be pulled to the inside of the curve.   And when sound  comes from multiple units, it really adds an impressive aspect of realism.

I plan on running a combine SC/El Cap train with my GGD sets, so I will need 3, if not 4 powered units   My 10 car SC set is a load for 2 powered units and dummies on level track.  

Laidoffsick, you are definitely going to need a 7500 horsepower rednose consist, as well as an Engineer who knows the air and knows the railroad. 

Now there is a VERY big question! Will these units have the "plated sides" to represent stainless steel, as in done on the Athearn HO models?

I made the assumption that Atlas will do the right thing based on their Western Pacific F3.  You can see that the lower silver band is painted from the cab ladder forward and has a stainless effect from the ladder back.  I think Atlas will be the only one to achieve anything acceptable, but I've been wrong before.  

I should mention that LED's were lighting this picture, not a flash.

Regarding the look of the F7, I hope it looks like it would have in 1951-1953 without all the ladder stuff that was added later.  I assume that the 3rd Rail F7 will have all of that added.  Also, I would be shocked if the engine came with a single headlight.  I think their earlier F3 was done intentionally to represent the way it was delivered from the factory with 3 portholes on the A unit and a single headlight.  Regarding the Dynamic Brake fan, the catalog has the fan pictured as being a 36" fan, which would be correct for the #37.  All the F7's from all roads pictured in the catalog have 36" fans.

2 railing without the benefit of traction tires, I went for the 37 LABC.  Atlas engines always had a bit more weight than the competition.  Also, for 3 railers, I expect the sound to be exceptional.  Atlas TMCC engines always sounded better and now that Atlas has the benefit of RS5 from ERR, they should be outstanding.

Guys, if your running three rail you don't need 3 power units, two would more than adequate. If you think you need six motors then go for it but I think your wasting your money. 

I'm going for the Rio Grande F7's in an ABA of power A dummy B and dummy A to pull my CZ. I have pulled 8 aluminum passenger cars with my lionel WP F3's ABA with only one powered unit. Of course no grades to speak of. 

No doubt about it.  Late last year I was able to score 4 Atlas-O GP60's that were still in the original factory sealed shipping cartons.  So, basically they are brand new, never been run.  Three of these units are powered and easily pull my reefer block of 32 MTH Santa Fe reefers.

In total these six motors could pull the bumpers off a dump truck.  Not to worry, I can also pull the above train with a single unit.  Some will say the 3 powered units is overkill and I will not argue, but the sound produced when they go makes it ALL worth it.

Yes, the GP60's are a bit longer than F7's and therefore are a few ounces heavier, but I see no problem being able to handle GDD's El Cap with two powered A's.

I'm in for the A-B-B-A lash-up of 45L, 45A, 45B & 45C.  That is how Santa Fe ran them and who am I to disagree?

THANK YOU ATLAS & THANK YOU STEVE (aka Mr. Muffin)

This picture illustrates the point that Hot Water mentioned about the stainless steel on the Santa Fe F7's.  The units on top are Athearn Genesis HO Santa Fe F7's w/ss sides.  The lower ones are also Athern Genesis but these are the F3's w/o stainless steel.

Good information, and thanks Jim.

Also note how long the red of the "bonnet" is on the lower F3 units, when compared to the F7 units in the upper view. I certainly hope Atlas gets that feature correct along with the stainless plating.

Actually, Jack, both locomotives pictured are correct.  The F3's are from Santa Fe's first order in 1946 (Nos. 16-21), and that order was different from all later rednose F-units in two respects: The side panels were steel and thus painted; and the warbonnet stripe was longer because, as delivered, it wrapped around the center porthole of the cab units.  Santa Fe removed the porthole and replaced that panel with side vent panels early in 1947, but never did add stainless steel side panels nor change the pattern of the warbonnet on the 16 through the 21.

I would bet the farm that Atlas gets the warbonnet correct on their F7's.

I swapped emails with Atlas a couple times today and here's the relevant reply:

Steve,

The sound in our F7s will be Lionel’s upgraded and improved “Railsounds” for the 3-rail models with the 2-rail versions perhaps using something other than QSI. This is something we’re still working through, but you can rest assured if it’s other than QSI it will be its equal or better.

The Santa Fe units will be road specific with the bodies of all the F7s painted to match the varying finishes of the prototypes. If there is any doubt to our ability to get this right please click on this link with your computer pointing device (usually the mouse) of a review of our CB&Q F3 from Eric’s Trains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YefMHgO2sjs , thanks.

Jerry Kimble

jkimble@atlaso.com

1-908-687-9590 ext. 7118

Atlas Model Railroad Company

Coordinator Sales/Marketing/Product Development

My A-B-B-A pre-order submitted.

Just my opinion but, I believe that response from Mr. Kimble is a cop-out. To blindly state, "If there is any doubt to our ability to get this right please click on on this link……of a review of our CB&Q F3 from Eric;s Trains:". That's nice, but those CB&Q "passenger scheme" F3 units were painted and NOT "plated". The CB&Q never had any "plated" F units, only E units had "plated" stainless steel side panels, and not all the E7A units at that.

So,,,,,,the question still remains: Will Atlas have the side panels of those specific Santa Fe F unit models "plated", in order to correctly represent stainless steel?

My suggestion, if you're not sure they will be made correctly, is to order what you'd like to have, then wait to receive yours until you have the opportunity to see reviews from others when they first ship. No deposit is required by us. 

I am confident Atlas O isn't going to make extras and whatever I end up with will sell through. Seems like there are always guys that don't want to preorder then decide they want them after they come out. 

What you saw on Eric's video is how the side panels will be. It will look good but they will not be plated. 

Follow MrMuffins advice, you will feel better.

What will the Sunset Fs have Plated or painted?

The Santa Fe units will be road specific with the bodies of all the F7s painted to match the varying finishes of the prototypes. If there is any doubt to our ability to get this right please click on this link with your computer pointing device (usually the mouse) of a review of our CB&Q F3 from Eric’s Trains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YefMHgO2sjs , thanks.

I should start with stating the I enjoy Eric's videos and have the a good deal of respect for what he does.  However, I have never considered Eric an expert on comparing the models he reviews to the prototype.

It scares me the Mr. Kimble refers Eric's review of the Burlington F unit as a reason to trust that Atlas will get the Santa Fe unit correct.  It make me wonder if Mr. Kimble is aware that the Buriington F units were painted silver whereas the Santa Fe units have stainless panels.  The better comparison would have been the Western Pacific engine I've pictured above.  It did have stainless panels and Atlas did a reasonable job simulating the stainless.

Further, although Eric give the engine a pass (which he seems to do for anything he reviews), if you go down to the 2 rail section you will see that the Burlington engine has issues with regarding fidelity to the prototype.

Here is an excellent discussion on the problems with the Atlas Burlington F unit.

https://ogrforum.com/t...ailing-for-cbandq-f3

If you look at that thread, you will see that one of the most glaring flaws on the Burlington F3 was the wrong pilot.  Atlas had a reputation for accuracy, but Lionel produced their Burlington F units with the correct pilot.

Pennsy modelers take note Atlas has the same incorrect pilot pictured for their upcoming F7.

Now, until Mr. Kimble's statement, I've given Atlas the benefit of the doubt on the troubles they have been through.  I even gave them a pass when the last two Atlas California Zephyr cars had different, incorrect trucks and the paint didn't match the earlier versions that they produced.  I have no idea what the paint will be on the remaining CZ cars and how many different silvers will be used in the remaining cars.

Although I ordered a set of Santa Fe F7's from Atlas, I've now become confused.  Is Atlas still committed to the previous standards they had set, or have they decided that there is more profitability in becoming just another 3 rail company taking advantage of O gauge buyers that don't have the sophistication associated with modelers in other scales like HO.

I don't even know if the new factory has the capacity to duplicate the Western Pacific F3 stainless effect I was counting on.  The new color of the CZ cars would say no.  The earlier CZ cars (although a bit bluish) had a much more striking stainless look than the last two cars.  Why do I mention the CZ cars?  Because when you are modeling Santa Fe you are talking stainless steel.

I should bring up one more point.  Does Atlas know that the California Zephyr cars were stainless steel?  In the catalog, they state "realistic aluminum finish."

I could go on but I'll stop here.

I wonder if Atlas will look to the Southeast again in the next run. They did the as-delivered black Southern F-3 Phase 1, and also the double stripe early passenger version. Scott has listed purple ACL and green Southern, so hopefully Atlas will follow suit. I don't need all powered units as Scott sells, so I would wait in Atlas. I do have the Southern black Southern ABBA that MTH did a few years ago. I would email Atlas directly, but would probably get the standard "we are considering all roadnames" for future releases.

I am certainly not as sophisticated as some in terms of my knowledge of the prototype, nor am I as adamant that the toy/model must have 100% fidelity with the prototype.  But in this case, whether or not the body has stainless panels (preferable) or a stainless appearance would seem to be a pretty important factor.  Or at least it is important to me (so therefore it must be important to everyone...right? )  

Unfortunately, Mr. Kimble's response does not directly answer the question.  I will not order a set until I know how the body/panels will be treated.

Would the Pennsylvania units shown have pulled freight or passenger?

Freight.  Pennsy had no passenger F7's, although they had some FP7's.

Rusty

If anybody has an email address for Mr. Kimble PLEASE send him a link to this thread and ask him to respond to the points raised.  If Atlas gets a feel of what the impact will be on their sales if they get it wrong, maybe they will make a more serious effort to address these issues.

While we are at it... Are the fuel tanks too high off the ground? 

Jim, I emailed him from a contact-us link on the Atlas O web page.

Im also curious to know what "road specific" means. I took that to mean no steam generators in the A units, but those of you who know far more about it than I do seem to be on top of this. So I'm just going to sit back and see what the response is.

Thanks Rusty. My next question was going to be what is the difference between these and the FP7's that 3rd rail released a little while back. 

The "FP" (FP7 & FP9) model was a longer frame unit equipped with steam generator and an additional water supply tank INSIDE the carbody. 

In a side-by-side comparison of the F7 and the FP7, would the only noticeable difference between the two be the length?

The Pennsy F7 question I'm raising is about the pilot.  I think Atlas has the wrong pilot pictured and like the Burlington F3, Atlas will use the wrong pllot for the engine.  It can be changed but will the paint match?

Athearn used this pilot.  From what I can tell from looking at internet pictures it is correct.  It's not what Atlas is picturing.

An FP-7 is about 4 feet longer than a standard F7, with the addition added between the first porthole and vent. There is also a gap between the front truck and the battery box underneath. The other main difference would be the steam generator vent and stack on the roof at the rear of the unit. Otherwise, looked much the same as a stock F7.

Yup, plus the steam generator details on the top of the rear end of the carbody, plus the different fuel/water tank.

Here are some images of my Pennsy FP7s.  Pennsy as well as some other roads had a lateral water tank ahead of the fuel tank.  PRR also had the "Passenger" or slab style pilot of the FP7s and the F7s. 

Thanks for the info guys! 

Jonathan, Thanks for the pics. those units look awesome!!

Thanks Jonathan.  No doubt 3rd Rail will get the Pennsy F7 pilot correct, right?

Just got my order confirmation from Mr. Muffin's.  Things are moving right along. 

OK, Jim. But, which ones? The ones with the "silver painted" sides?

Actually the Grilles look pretty good on those Sunset units,Atlas production has never been geared for a number of "detail specific models" a few big items[correct roof contours on the GE-8-40C pilot models, high hoods where road specific] much beyond that I would not count on anything else,announcing this model probabily means they have started tooling.JMO

Jack -

I am hoping thay are "plated".  I know for a fact that Jerry Kimble and the good folks at Atlas-O are monitoring this thread and realize how serious the Santa Fe modelers are about this release of F7's.  I suspect they fully understand that a LARGE percentage of the orders may be cancelled if they (Atlas) don't get this right.

I don't think they want another CZ style debacle.

We will just have to wait and see.

I sure hope you are right, Jim. If the units are indeed "plated" they should be spectacular looking.