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New ES44AC's 'misbehave' when turned on < SOLVED & "TROTS" >

Ingeniero No1Ingeniero No1OGR Forum Member

I have two new ES44AC’s, 6-38954 (Nickel Plate) and 6-38946 (Conrail). They are great and run fine. However, they both exhibit a characteristic that I have never experienced before, and only when they are on a specific spur as shown by the image, below.

 

The spur yard where this occurs is powered by a ZW-L, which I normally leave set to maximum voltage output, and turn it On & Off with the remotely actuated outlet into which the ZW-L is plugged. With several engines (both Legacy and DCS) on the spurs, I simply turn the ZW-L on with the outlet remote, and everything works fine.

 

Now, however, if either of the two new ES44Ac’s is on that specific spur, when I turn the power On as I just described, causes the new ES44AC’s sound to come on full volume, and the engine is irresponsive to the Legacy remote.  However, if I turn the ZW-L handle down first, turn it On, and then move up the handle, the engine behaves normally – no loud engine sound, and fully responsive to the remote.

 

Wiring details. The four outputs of the ZW-L are connected with 12AWG wire to the four inputs on one of two TIU’s. Each of the TIU outputs is connected with 14AAWG wire to a terminal or relay block. Each of the six relays or terminals on the blocks is connected with 16AWG wire to a track.

 

Any ideas of why these two Legacy engines ‘misbehave’ when the ZW-L is turned On if the ZW-L handle is up, but not when the handle is down, and then raised?

 

Thx!

 

Alex

 

L-ES44AC PROBLEM LOCATION

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Last edited by Ingeniero No1
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RickORickOOGR Forum Member

Is your legacy base powered up at the same time by the remote outlet as well? Maybe there is a silght delay in signal.

 

Its always recommended that the base be powered first to make sure the loco sees the command signal.

 

Given the large size of your layout and the second or two it takes legacy to "boot up" maybe the signal is a little late "getting there".

 

Diesels generally have weaker antennas than steamers which may make this model more susceptible to a lack of signal.

 

Compound that with the fact it seems "newer " legacy stuff has more sensative electronics than the first legacy offerings and the TMCC stuff that preceded it. I.E. more sensative to dirty track, power drop outs over switches etc.

 

When you bring the power up with the handle, you give the base a little more time to get the signal to the track.

 

 

 If you can try powering your legacy base first, then turn on your transformer the way you typically would, see if theres a difference.

 

 

Last edited by RickO
Ingeniero No1Ingeniero No1OGR Forum Member

Rick,

 

I tried what you suggested, and it worked! I repeated it five time to be sure, and each time the engine behaved as it should.

 

Procedure:

1. Make sure ZW-L switch is OFF (handles up - maximum outputs)

2. Turn remote outlet ON (all control panel transformers, power supplies, and Legacy)

3. Turn on ZW-L with its own switch.

This worked fine.

 

This is not an issue for me since the main reason I have the outlet on remote is in case something goes wrong when I am not at the control panel. I can shut down everything with the outlet remote, which I carry in my pocket.

 

THANKS!

Alex

Ingeniero No1Ingeniero No1OGR Forum Member

Rick,

 

Yes, but it still begs the question that Lima raised; i.e., whether there is something wrong with that particular track (spur)?

 

There really is nothing wrong with that spur track, BUT it is DIFFERENT from the rest. You see, I have been substituting the terminal strips, which distribute each TIU output to six tracks, with relays. This way I can shut off the power to any track that is not used. This works great. However, I have not installed all the relay modules yet. I will have eight such modules with six relays each, but have installed only five modules (30 relays) so far.

 

The spur in question IS NOT supplied via a relay (yet), but from a plain terminal strip. What difference does this make? In this case, a lot.

 

Here is what happens.

When I turn the power ON to the control panel, everything turns on, but the power supply that powers the relays takes about two seconds to come on, and then you can hear the relays pick up. Since that particular spur is not yet connected through a relay, when the power comes on, the spur is immediately powered up, and as we found out, this happens before the Legacy base signal comes on.

 

The other spurs, which are connected via the relays, take a couple of seconds to power up, allowing enough time for the Legacy signal.

 

And now you know The Rest Of The Story! (TROTS)

 

Alex

Last edited by Ingeniero No1
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