New layout - FasTrack? Gargraves? Ross? What will work with minimum curve O72?

I went from MTH Real Trax to Atlas. I recommend abandoning track with plastic roadbed. I'm no expert, but I think a #4 turnout would be more or as gradual as an O-72. Numbered # turnouts have straight rails beyond the frog.

Running 0-72 curves gives you the option to buy the larger engines that require 0-72. You can through a search find ongoing topics about what track and switches to use. I use Ross switches with Gar Graves track. Both of these give more choices in curves and switches compared to the others. Ross/Ross is also a good combination. Also track manufacturers measure their radius' different. If you maintain 0-72 curves for everything it does eat up a bit of real estate.....Paul 2

see  this thread

https://ogrforum.com/...8#143326807722649418

@Oman posted:

I recommend abandoning track with plastic roadbed. 

This is my major concern. I think I agree here.

@paul 2 posted:

Running 0-72 curves gives you the option to buy the larger engines that require 0-72. You can through a search find ongoing topics about what track and switches to use. I use Ross switches with Gar Graves track. Both of these give more choices in curves and switches compared to the others. Ross/Ross is also a good combination. Also track manufacturers measure their radius' different. If you maintain 0-72 curves for everything it does eat up a bit of real estate.....Paul 2

Are Ross switches and Gargraves track fully compatible or would I need an adapter at each joint? Are they the pin style connector? Did you have to cut a lot of track to get it to fit?

@AlanRail posted:

see  this thread

https://ogrforum.com/...8#143326807722649418

Thanks!

I have been using Gar Graves track since 1967. Of all the layouts I have built over the years I have alwaays had to cut the Gar Graves. It became a lot easier when Gar Graves started making pre-formed curves. Both Ross and Gar Graves use the same pins...........Paul 2

@paul 2 posted:

I have been using Gar Graves track since 1967. Of all the layouts I have built over the years I have alwaays had to cut the Gar Graves. It became a lot easier when Gar Graves started making pre-formed curves. Both Ross and Gar Graves use the same pins...........Paul 2

Thanks!

What is the difference between the tinplate and stainless track for GG? Do people typically prefer one over the other?

Differences are stainless is harder to solder and magnetraction does not work on stainless. Also but I am not sure stainless may be a bit harder to bend.......Paul 2

@greg_08 posted:

Thanks!

What is the difference between the tinplate and stainless track for GG? Do people typically prefer one over the other?

Stainless is usually used outdoors or in extremely damp areas.  In my basement for 20 years now, the dehumidifier runs on & off year-round & I use the Gargraves tinplate & Gragraves/Ross tinplate switches.  I have no issues with rust running two levels on an "L" shape around the wall on 27ft X 17ft layout.
One other thing, Don't drop anything heavy on the track as the rail will dent.  The few little dents I have, have never been an issue.  Besides, replacing a small piece of track at any length is usually easy.  Cutting with a Dremmel tool when installing has been the best way for me.  Just smooth the cut edges.  I hope this helps.
D.

Don't forget that Ross makes sectional track including curves. Others here will attest to the high reliability and longevity of Ross switches.

I implemented the Plywood Empire Route with O72 Fastrack because I knew that as I learned I would be making track-plan changes and tweaks, easily accomplished with Fastrack.

Mine is a [mostly] switching Pike with speeds never above 20-25smph so noise from plastic roadbed is just not an issue.

I have found Fastrack track switches to be reliable with zero derailments in three years. I have had one failure in-use when a cold-solder at a switch motor failed. Two seconds with a soldering pencil fixed that. Another switch required repair brand-new (the improperly-seated-switch-motor-causing-lockup-between-the-motor-pinion-and-the-rack-gear syndrome).

Choosing track is partly it is a matter of personal preference regarding appearance. I prefer the scale tie size and spacing of Fastrack but prefer the more realistic appearance of Ross "T" cross-section rail. For me MTH Scaletrax would be a winner except for the jarringly-wide tie spacing. For me the appearance of too-wide Ross/Gargraves ties is partly offset by the ability to use actual discrete ballast pieces. Also, (again to me-this is all in the area of personal preference wrt appearance) the greatly oversized flanges of 3-rail O seems exaggerated on Fastrack and partly muted on Ross/Gargraves.

You'll find lots of discussions here wrt merits/detractions of various track brands/styles.

Stainless is HARD and almost impossible to solder. You would need a resistance soldering tool. Even then it's a pain.

Go with tin plate.  

@AlanRail posted:

Stainless is HARD and almost impossible to solder. You would need a resistance soldering tool. Even then it's a pain.

Go with tin plate.  

Thanks! I would've chosen stainless had you all not guided me away

Do people use the GG flex track for most straights or do people get straight rigid tracks? What makes the flex track bend? Is it difficult?

I used Gargraves for 25 years and was always able to adapt it to whatever I  needed to as layput progressed,  very forgiving, and used Gargraves switches in conjunction both manual and remote, no issues.  

On my newest layout I'm only using fastrack, limited  only by flexibility,  however they seem to have all the math figured out to satisfy even me.  Works like a dream  a little better than Gargraves and the switches are just as smooth.

  I'm using 036 and 048 right now everything I  run on it runs smooth and only 1 track power connector per loop, (30' & 60' track runs with no dropout in power) better than I had with Gargraves especially with switches and crossovers added to layout, no extra wiring needed unlike Gargraves.

 I'm  using z1000 and VW& LW to power track. I also power accessories thru track.

Hope this helps.

I always buy the Gar Graves phantom 3' tinplates flex then just bend when needed. Using a template to bend the track is probably the best method. I have always used my stomach to slowly bend the track being very careful to bend it slowly as to not kink the track. Once kinked you may not be able to smooth it out...... Paul 2

I would make my minimum curve larger than 072

I also would go wider, I have 12' x 16' and I'm very pleased with O84, O72, O63, & O54. You need to remember if you need at least O72 your going to want to go to another track unless you plan on doing 2 or 3 tracks at O72. I like the O84 and O72 side by side for my O72 engine, knowing I can take it in at least one loop. 

What types of locomotives and rolling stock do you plan to operate; e.g., large articulated steamers; scale length passenger cars, or traditional size equipment.?

@rtraincollector @clem k - Definitely going larger than O72 in some spaces. My inner curve min is O72. Good points

@paul 2 - for turnouts, will I run into issues using the numbered turnouts? What do you use for crossovers? In the track program I use, there is a #8 and the 175M25 crossovers? Will a typical MTH/Lionel loco O72 min run into issues due to a straight after the frog?

@Jushavnfun - Thanks! I do love my current layout but the curves are just too small for what I want to begin collecting. The O54 and O72 locos are calling my name!

Here's my current layout:

@Pingman posted:

What types of locomotives and rolling stock do you plan to operate; e.g., large articulated steamers; scale length passenger cars, or traditional size equipment.?

I will be running a little bit of everything really. Large steamers with extended passenger cars (both of which either use O54 or O72). Lots of diesel (requiring O54). I want to keep my future purchases in mind while building the layout so I don't build myself into a corner.

@greg_08 posted:

Do people use the GG flex track for most straights or do people get straight rigid tracks? What makes the flex track bend? Is it difficult?

Yes, you can use the flex track it for straight track.  Not a problem at all.

What makes the flex track bend?  You do!  You have to force it to bend, or curve I should say, but it doesn't take a lot of force.  It's not a "springy" steel, it may spring back a little after curving it, but not much.  You just have to be careful so you don't kink it.  There are suggestions on the GG website and on YouTube and probably even this site, just do some searching and you should have no problem finding plenty of info. on this subject.

As a few others have probably stated, the most useful tool to have for working with GG track is a Dremel with abrasive cut-off wheels.  It will make quick, easy work of cutting the rails compared to all the other cutting methods that I'm currently aware of.

Greg, my go to switches are Ross 100 and 101. They are like the Gar Graves switch. Crossover on my one layout I used a # 175. The # 8 crossover is very nice. You can hardly see the transition between the two tracks but it takes up more real estate then the # 175. I run larger engines and have had no problems going through these switches. I used a # 8 curved switch with the relay but did not have to use the relay. .............Paul 2

@paul 2 posted:

... magnetraction does not work on stainless.

ADCX, thanks for that video. I learned something new. Went with what others had said about stainless steel. Would of never known..............Paul 2

Ross has specialty switches.  Ross switches with Gargraves track. 

This is a Curtis 4 way switch, pre-Ross, a couple of 105's  and a couple of double slips.   Used Gargraves track.   All pictured used material/switches. 

I have both Gargraves & Ross switches on my layout.   If I were to do it again, I would have all Ross switches.   The track work is all Gargraves tinplate flex track with wood ties.  The beauty of using flex track is its adaptability.   My minimum curvature is 049 and 042 for turnouts.   It's impossible to find 049 in sectional track.   In addition, flex track allows for easy use of transition curves.   When laying straight sections, a long sturdy steel ruler is a must. 
Cheers, Dave

Since I will likely be buying new curves, I am wondering if I should make the jump to Ross/Gargraves? 

>>> You could be just fine with Ross/GG, your can also consider Atlas-O or Scaletrax.  FasTrack does include O72, O84, and O96, but good reasons for NOT using FasTrack include flextrack and numbered turnouts.

If running min O72 locos, what should I look out for if I make this jump? I am unfamiliar with using curve numbers (#4,#6,#8, etc.) Would the 11 degree turnouts work with O72 requirements? 

>>> Numbered turnouts are more gradual that O72, and preferred for that reason, IF your space is sufficient to do the track plan you want with numbered turnouts.   Manufacturers make small fractional-length sections of various diameters to mate with numbered turnouts, so that you can for instance, build a passing siding with a small track center spacing.  Of course with flex, you have much flexibility to solve these kinds of issues.

Should I make this jump? Or should I stick with what I know in the unreliable switches Lionel seems to be producing?

>>> Personal choice.   I recommend jumping from FasTrack, IF you are OK with ballasting your empire (or are OK without ballast, as many seem to be).

Should I use Gargraves straights/curves and Ross for switches or have people used Ross track and been satisfied?

>>> Yes, a good choice either way, and many are satisfied.  As some suggested, consider the availability of specialized turnouts from Ross.  You might try a track planning software to play with turnout configurations to see what works best.  AnyRail is free for up to 50 sections of track on a layout - you can experiment.  Includes libraries of track from all manufactures mentioned above.

If you made the switch, would you leave the existing layout as FT or replace it all ?

@Richie C. posted:

If you made the switch, would you leave the existing layout as FT or replace it all ?

I would most likely replace all of it on the new layout, but keep some track for a Christmas loop and a kids track table. I will still have a ton of track leftover.

@darlander posted:

I have both Gargraves & Ross switches on my layout.   If I were to do it again, I would have all Ross switches.   The track work is all Gargraves tinplate flex track with wood ties.  The beauty of using flex track is its adaptability.   My minimum curvature is 049 and 042 for turnouts.   It's impossible to find 049 in sectional track.   In addition, flex track allows for easy use of transition curves.   When laying straight sections, a long sturdy steel ruler is a must. 
Cheers, Dave

This looks great!

@Mike CT posted:

This is a Curtis 4 way switch, pre-Ross, a couple of 105's  and a couple of double slips.   Used Gargraves track.   All pictured used material/switches. 

Wow! What year?

@Ken-Oscale posted:

Since I will likely be buying new curves, I am wondering if I should make the jump to Ross/Gargraves? 

>>> You could be just fine with Ross/GG, your can also consider Atlas-O or Scaletrax.  FasTrack does include O72, O84, and O96, but good reasons for NOT using FasTrack include flextrack and numbered turnouts.

If running min O72 locos, what should I look out for if I make this jump? I am unfamiliar with using curve numbers (#4,#6,#8, etc.) Would the 11 degree turnouts work with O72 requirements? 

>>> Numbered turnouts are more gradual that O72, and preferred for that reason, IF your space is sufficient to do the track plan you want with numbered turnouts.   Manufacturers make small fractional-length sections of various diameters to mate with numbered turnouts, so that you can for instance, build a passing siding with a small track center spacing.  Of course with flex, you have much flexibility to solve these kinds of issues.

Should I make this jump? Or should I stick with what I know in the unreliable switches Lionel seems to be producing?

>>> Personal choice.   I recommend jumping from FasTrack, IF you are OK with ballasting your empire (or are OK without ballast, as many seem to be).

Should I use Gargraves straights/curves and Ross for switches or have people used Ross track and been satisfied?

>>> Yes, a good choice either way, and many are satisfied.  As some suggested, consider the availability of specialized turnouts from Ross.  You might try a track planning software to play with turnout configurations to see what works best.  AnyRail is free for up to 50 sections of track on a layout - you can experiment.  Includes libraries of track from all manufactures mentioned above.

Thank you so much for this! So helpful!

I too have used all Gargraves and Ross switches. They work great together. As for the Gargraves curves, I was glad I got into laying track when they offered pre-curved sections. I use 72, 80,89 and 96. ANd I use flexible in certain spots.

There's no question that Fastrack is visually more toy-like than the offerings from several manufacturers that produce realistic looking track and turnouts. But there's a fundamental question that I think should be considered among your top priorities: Do you have children or young acquaintances who will spend a significant amount of time enjoying your new layout?

The primary reason why I chose to use Fastrack on my 28 x 10 layout is that I have two grandsons growing into the hobby. I like the fact that Fastrack turnouts provide a "fail safe" to prevent derailments if a train approaches a "closed" turnout, which makes it quite kid-friendly. I haven't yet tried running two trains simultaneously as a solo operator, but I think that feature will prove to be handy. Also, the process of adding buss wires and connecting them with "drops" every 6-8 feet is simple and straightforward with Fastrack, and assures plenty of voltage around a large layout.

There are eight 060 turnouts and a few 060 curve pieces scattered around my layout.  The main curves are 084 and 096, with some 072 here and there. It wasn't a huge challenge to get the trackage to fit nicely using all the available combinations of straight track. And lastly, I do intend to paint and weather the Fastrack as part of the overall scenery effort. My experiments with that have been encouraging.

@darlander posted:

When laying straight sections, a long sturdy steel ruler is a must. 

Unless you're modeling certain roads, like the Rock Island for instance.

Eyeball under a dim light is way more than adequate in my case. 

Stay away from Ross 3-ways if you are going that way, buy the 4-way instead. The 3-ways are difficult to wire correctly with DZ-2500Cs. Unless you like wiring challenges,  I have done two but it requires 4 diodes and a DZ-1008 relay.

Double slips require 2-DZ-1008 relays for the two DZ-2500Cs.

I made the mistake of buying stainless. So, I use those as train support track on shelving