New Legacy Powermasters

Can they supply the same voltage and amperage as the TPC300/400 or are they limited to 135/180 watts at 7/10 amps?

Each unit can supply up to 180W. I'm using one on each main loop at present. But they are so inexpensive and simple to install that I may add more, and use one for each power section within the loop.

I didn't know they were out yet, cool. I am sure some will complain about the loss of the ability to run two 180 bricks into one TPC, but that always seemed like overkill to me.

 

Have they published the manual yet?

Mine were shipped out to me on the 25th, so they should be available from most suppliers by now.

 

The manual is not yet showing on the Lionel website, but there was one in each box.

 

I'm quite happy with the 180W limit, as it reduces the risks of damage to my trains. Also, they have some pretty fancy circuit protection built-in which is a big plus compared to the TPC units.

I think they're perfect.  I don't like more than 10 amps on a single power drop anyway, so this is a perfect fit.

Update!

Today I have tested these units in conventional mode. They work beautifully in this mode, and seem to give much better control than the TPC units did in conventional mode. Using my CAB-2 controller, the bell and whistle both operated well, and speed control/reversing etc. were very smooth and positive.

I am one happy bunny indeed, and very pleased that I have purchased these new Legacy Powermasters.

Interesting comments Nicole, seems Lionel have addressed all issues with 50Hz these days. I look forward to trying it.

 

Hi Dave.  It actual states on the Powermaster that they operate on both 50Hz and 60Hz. 

 

In the manual it does state that they should be powered by a regular transformer, and not from a chopped-wave power supply.

 

I power my layout with 50Hz 18V 150W transformers that I buy from Conrad. I just fit a Lionel power adaptor lead to these, and then plug them straight into the Powermasters/TPC's.

The only item that I have that does not like 50Hz, is a tender from a starter set that has an old TrainSounds unit in it. That goes absolutely bananas on 50Hz. 

 

Additional. Although these new units are 'wireless' in as much as they do not require a wired connection to the Legacy/TMCC base, they do require a base to be connected in order to operate. They pick up commands from the track signal, and not directly from the CAB unit.  This means that they should operate perfectly with both modern Legacy systems, and also with older TMCC bases. 

Thanks for the informative review and insight. 

Thanks for the info. Nicole. Over in the USA at the moment. Went to a local train show

yesterday. Saw an original used TMCC Powermaster, thought I might pick it up as I could do with another (I have the Legacy Powermaster bridge) but the guy wanted $60! 

 Decided to hold on and buy a new Legacy one at that price.

 

FYI the original powermasters were marked 50/60Hz. 

 

Nick

 

First Lionel set I bought had Trainsounds and non-50Hz CW-80 talk about double whammy! Went absolutely nuts on 50Hz.

Woo! $60 for a used TMCC Powermaster. You can buy a brand new Legacy Powermaster for under $75, and get a whole lot more functionality too. One of the great things about the new Legacy Powermasters is that they work with either a Legacy or a TMCC base unit. 

If it works with my Cab1 than this just might be my first Legacy purchase.

I must be careful. It might be one of those gateway things to get me hooked.
Lol

 

 

The Legacy powermaster is for running conventional locos, or MTH locos in a conventional environment. It allows you to adjust track voltage via the throttle knob.It is not used to access legacy fetaures.

Should work fine with cab1 as long as you have a base1.  To use the Legacy Power Master you need a TMCC base, any type; base1, base1-L, or Legacy base. 

Remember folks, the new Legacy PM gets it's signal from the track/ ground radiator signal just like the engines.

Well who is correct?
If the Legacy gets its signal like an engine.  Can the Cab-1 base with the Cab-1 remote of course, control all of its features.

If so, can it be addressed as an engine or is it limited to a TR id #.

Why Lionel used the TR button for both Powermasters and MUs and only allowed 9 vs 99 for switches and accesories has always been a mystery to me.

Seems they always get something important wrong.

 

My question is how many with my Cab-1 and ZW-C
I am trying to determine if it is better than my original one.

Are you saying that the ZW -L can be assigned a higher Tr# than 9 with a Cab1 controller.

Using Legacy you can do above TR 9. 

 

Using CAB 1 you assign it as an engine to get above 9. A trade off of old technology vs new. 

Before any blood gets shed, below is an extract from my manual.

 

If you are using a TMCC base unit.

 

Under TMCC operations. (Page 12)

 

.....

 

3. Set the prog/run switch on the PowerMaster to the PROG position.

4. Press ENG or TR on the CAB-1 or CAB-1L.

5. Enter the unique ID#. You may select any ENG ID# from 1 to 98 or any TR ID# from 1 to 9.

 

.....

 

But if you are using a Legacy base unit, or a Base-1L, you have access to the full Legacy range of values. You may choose any ENG ID# from 1 to 98 or any TR ID# from 1 to 99. (Using Legacy V1.4 or above.) (See page 10.)

Maybe we need someone to scan the new manual and post it.  Care to volunteer Nicole?

 

I would have already offered to do so, but my scanner is suffering from a case of inconvenient death at the moment.

I'm sure that Lionel will get around to posting it on-line shortly though.

But in the meantime, if anyone has any specific questions that may be answered by the manual, I'll be most happy to look-up the relevant sections.

Thank You Nicole!

Well I think I will have to get me some.
Since I use two digit train id's I am sure I can get used to using Single digit engine #s to address these. That will let me make up 6 MUs while keeping 4 TRs for my ZW-C

Makes staying with my Cab-1 all more worthwhile.

As long as I do not get tempted to buy a Legacy remote.
I will never know what I am missing.
Someday but with the shortage and the unreasonable price, not today....

I guess fixed vs relevant speed steps is not really all that different unless you have a real expensive Legacy Loco. My MTH, K-line and Lionel TMCC all seem to run pretty smooth for me.

Nicole:

Not sure if anyone has asked this. I am getting ready to start wiring my layout. I will have two independent main lines. One powered through a TPC400 and powered through the new Legacy powermaster (I run Legacy only). Both have separate power supplies - the powermaster has a 180 watt brick and the TPC has both taps on a Z4000.

 

My question/questions is this:

A ground wire is supposed to be connected between the Legacy command base and the TPC (Lionel video) or the command base and track (TPC manual). Since I have separate power supplies, track power controllers and electrically isolated track loops do I need two ground wires from the Legacy command base one to the TPC and one to the powermaster or to both track loops?

 

If this helps the track loops will be isolated by the power rail - ground will be connected. Power supplies will be phased (connected to the same wall plug so I hope so!).

 

Would there be any reason to have separate power AND ground rails and if so does your answer to above change?

 

Thanks Nicole

I appreciate

Joe

The Z4000 manual has a specific prohibition on connecting the two channels together to increase the power output, so I'd rethink that.

 

For Legacy, all of the outside tracks should be connected, you only have to switch the center tracks to control power districts.  No reason I know that you'd want to separate ground connections isolated from each other.

John:

Thanks for the input. I will probably purchase another 180 watt brick and connect the two to the TPC and use one side of the Z4000 for the powermaster then.

What about the ground wire question? Got any input for that?

Joe 

PS - you got me thinking now. I may even purchase two more power bricks and sell the Z4000. I would probably come out ahead on that deal...................

Like I said, the grounds (outside track) should all be common throughout the layout.  There's normally no reason to try to isolate the outside tracks from each other, and for TMCC/Legacy to function across the entire layout, they have to be common.

 

You can connect the grounds any way you see fit as long as all of them are together. 

 

 

 

John:

Sorry - What I meant was the ground wire (command signal wire?) that needs to be connected from the command base U post to the track ground or to the powermaster/TPC. This is how the command base sends its digital signal to the track then to the locomotive. Lionel video says that if you have two command bases attached together you only attach one wire from one base to track ground. If you attach two wires one from each command base the signals will cancel each other out and you get no command control. What I can't find is any info on having one command base but two powermasters/TPC with their own power sources separately connected to different blocks of track electrically isolated from one another. I am not sure if I have to connect only one wire from the command base to one of the powermasters/TPC or to both. I have a feeling that based on what you said about the common ground for all track that one wire from the command base may be enough. Though it is highly unlikely to happen I hesitate to experiment for fear of blowing up a $500 locomotive so figured I had better ask first.

Joe

Maybe I am overthinking this

Perhaps all I need to do is daisy chain the powermaster to the TPC give them different track numbers and turn on both when I am running trains????????????? 

Can you daisy chain a powermaster to a TPC? What cable is needed?

The powermasters receive their commands from the single command base TMCC signal wire, they don't need to have a serial connection like the TPC.  Wire all the commons together and go.  Yes, you only connect ONE command base U terminal to the outside tracks.  If you have a BASE1 and a Legacy, connect the Legacy and don't connect anything to the U connection on the BASE1.

 

Thank You for posting this Positive Comment on the OGR Forum. I will definitely look into one or several of these Legacy Powermasters for Train Control.  At present I use 2 TPC 400's, with two 180 Watt bricks connected to each.  Each TPC IS Connected to one side of 5 BPC's that can operate the 20 blocks on my layout....Would the Legacy Powermasters work similarly?  I probably did not ask the question properly...

Other than the fact that the PowerMasters handle 180 watts instead of 400 watts, you can use them in place of the TPC 400's. 

Hi Joe,

 

Sorry for the delay in responding.

 

I see that John has answered your questions in some detail (Thanks John.), so I'll just give a brief summary here.

 

The 'ground wire' that you mention is the signal wire from the Legacy (Or TMCC) base unit to the outside rail. If your loops are connected by switches, then you only need the one connection. If your loops are completely separate from each other, then you need to run the signal wire to the outside rail of each loop. An alternative way of doing this would be to run the signal wire to the 'U' terminal on both the TPC and to the Legacy PowerMaster. 

 

On my layout, I have found that it is simpler to run the signal wire directly from the Legacy base unit to the track. Doing it this way means that I don't have to be concerned about the signal reaching the tracks, no matter how I may change the power supply arrangement in the future.

 

The TPC needs a serial connection to the base unit to operate. You already have this in place, so no change is needed there. But the Legacy PowerMaster units do not require a serial connection as they receive their control signals from the track. This makes the wiring for a Legacy PowerMaster much simpler, as you don't need to worry about the serial connection. To add a Legacy PowerMaster, all you need to do is to connect a PowerHouse (Or other 18V power supply.) to the input, and the two output wires to the track. There is no need for any connection from the TPC to the Legacy PowerMaster.

 

The TPC and the Legacy PowerMaster should be given different ID numbers. 

 

I'm so happy with the Legacy PowerMaster that I have now completely retired my TPC units and replaced them with Legacy PowerMasters.

I fully agree John. Coupled with the advanced protection circuits on the Legacy powerMaster, cutting down on the available power prevents a lot of potential problems too. No more risk of welding things to the track for one.

 

As I'm using 150W transformers, I'm limited to 8.3A, but that is ample for my needs. I have two passenger trains on one of my loops. Two powered A units with lights, sound, smoke and twin motors each, two unpowered A units with lights and smoke, and 10 lighted 18" aluminium passenger cars. (Incandescent bulbs.) These both run quite happily together on 150W. 

I'm busy converting passenger cars to LED's, that solves the issue of excessive current consumption.

 

I just purchased the PSX circuit protection for my layout. Focusing on circuit protection only does the Legacy Powermaster provide better or the same protection versus the PSX? 

I don't have any experience of the PSX system, but the Legacy PowerMasters are incredibly fast in cutting power.

My power transformers have extremely fast acting breakers, and I could get those to activate if I created a momentary short when I was using TPC's. But now that I have replaced the TPC's, I cannot get them to trip at all. The Legacy PowerMaster circuit protection kicks in and cuts the power before my transformers have a chance to register a short.