Well, Lionel put nothing new out again for S. I guess they dropped us.
Although they have a page of unsold merchandise.
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Well, there is the AF 2025 Christmas boxcar, 2519010, on page 184.
Lionel devoted a couple of pages of leftovers without even including a heading for American Flyer. They have abandoned S scale.
@TOKELLY posted:Lionel devoted a couple of pages of leftovers without even including a heading for American Flyer. They have abandoned S scale.
But, there was some Flyer in the Catalina.
Steve
Yes, the "leftovers." Get them while they last. The implication is that they are through with American Flyer. Some is "still available" before it ends up painted in Christmas or Halloween livery to get it out the door without so much as a wave goodbye.
No news is good news??? Some S Scale guys on another group think this is the beginning of S scale with nothing to compete (no Hi-rail, no Flyer) scale is the only game in town -- dream on...
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
@Tom Stoltz posted:No news is good news??? Some S Scale guys on another group think this is the beginning of S scale with nothing to compete (no Hi-rail, no Flyer) scale is the only game in town -- dream on...
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
Oh, my. Such thinking. What do "they" think many of us have been doing since 1966? Beyond that there is a mountain of Gilbert Flyer, Lionel Flyer, and SHS on the secondary market at very affordable prices. American Models is still in business. And, so on.
Bob
I suppose it is nice that the scale operators found a positive way to look at the absence of S gauge engines in the new Lionel catalog.
I would purchase a few more E8's from AM if they had any for sale. From what I understand there are no plans to do another run.
As for "Leftovers", I have already purchased what I want of those items. I have a Legacy layout, some of the older Legacy engines are no longer repairable. I have a Challenger in that situation already. I found a source of older Legacy engines, new in mint, sealed original boxes. I just purchased $5k worth of them so I can have confidence there will be operable engines on my layout for as long as I am operable, even if Lionel never makes another one. If Lionel does new Legacy releases in the future, so much the better.
@AmFlyer posted:< snip> I found a source of older Legacy engines, new in mint, sealed original boxes. I just purchased $5k worth of them so I can have confidence there will be operable engines on my layout for as long as I am operable, even if Lionel never makes another one. <snip>
Ah, but since they are new in mint, sealed in boxes, do we know if they run or are broken in some way? 
With Lionel, their iffy QC, and truly spotty product support life is always a gamble.
In an alternate tack, I own a fleet of Legacy and TMCC engines and have come to the conclusion that if they fail, just move on or start converting them to Blunami. And, a strength of good ol' Gilbert, American Models, and several other S-specific brands that one can fall back on is that they are often/usually fixable.
Bob
All I know at this point is no one other than Lionel has touched these engines. If they have been run the smoke unit could be damages or one of the Legacy boards from track power spikes. I have a 60 day return window if there is anything wrong with them so I will take my chances.
I have a number of American Models engines converted to TMCC/Railsounds.
@AmFlyer posted:All I know at this point is no one other than Lionel has touched these engines. If they have been run the smoke unit could be damages or one of the Legacy boards from track power spikes. I have a 60 day return window if there is anything wrong with them so I will take my chances.
I have a number of American Models engines converted to TMCC/Railsounds.
OK. Good.
Bob
@AmFlyer posted:I just purchased $5k worth of them so I can have confidence there will be operable engines...
Boy Tom, if I had that kind of money to throw at this hobby, I would have moved over to DCC instead. From what little I know about DCC is you would have better operation and much better sound (not to mention reliability and availability).
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
Without getting into all the details I made the decision back in 2013 to stay with Legacy. I already had 19 TMCC and Legacy engines that would have had to be converted to DCC.
Be sure to read today's (Jan 26) news item on the NASG website. It seems to leave little doubt about future Lionel production of new S gauge items.
I wish Lionel would sell some undecorated AF Baldwins as there is a customization I would like to comission. 1970s-1993 NRUC Blue Pickens Railway Baldwin. Hoping someone makes the NRUC logos as decals. I assume Lionel will continue with AF boxcars for special themes like Christmas. A good following for those.
That is disappointing and sad to read that Lionel is abandoning S gauge. But, I guess I should not be surprised. American Models hasn’t produced anything since the Budd dome car. DesPlaines Hobbies hasn’t produced anything new since the Thrall gondolas. Both appear to be just selling leftovers from past productions just like Lionel. That leaves the trickle of new products from Scale Trains as the only new production. Even if someone were to purchase Lionel’s AF tooling, the engines would not have Legacy.
@JFC454 posted:Even if someone were to purchase Lionel’s AF tooling, the engines would not have Legacy.
That would be a good thing as the extra expense of that proprietary system probably has a lot to do with lack of interest in their products. The lack of QC didn’t help much either. I swore off their stuff a while ago.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
It's "official": according to a Lionel representative at the Amherst Train show in Springfield, MA, over the weekend, Lionel will no longer be producing American Flyer products due to "poor sales." Lack of sales may be due to, as Tom Stoltz points out, an expensive proprietary system not supported by replacement parts and frequently questionable quality. In addition, Lionel failed to understand S scale modelers. The best example is the original cylindrical hopper that appealed to no one. Hi-rail modelers could not use it because the wheels were scale sized and misaligned at that. Scale modelers would not buy it because of fantasy schemes, huge couplers, and bolsters that made it sit far too high off the rails. It was like a bakery offering non-GMO, gluten-free, whole grain muffins covered in trans-fat frosting colored with red dye #3. If no one would buy those muffins, it was the customers' fault.
In fairness, they did redesign the trucks to correct some of those mentioned problems. I bought a bunch of the original ones and half a dozen of redesigned ones to support them, but how many cylindrical hoppers can one modeler want? My opinion is that S scale is stuck in the pre 1970’s. Lionel produced modern SD70ACe and ES44 diesels but no rolling stock to work with them. O gauge (particularly Atlas O) is appealing to more modern running with well cars, auto racks, tank cars, hoppers, etc. I would never buy Lionel AF rolling stock with 1950s friction bearing trucks to run behind an ES44.
"Poor sales" depends on what items one is considering. Note, if you will, that the Legacy Pacifics, Legacy Berkshires, and most of the Y3a's, the reissued heavyweights (except for PE) are no longer available at dealers and are sold out. Much of the FlyerChief line is sold out. And, the most complex products have sold despite of the lack of spare parts and the dodgy QC.
What has piled up are the repaints of the Gilbert-style rolling stock that Lionel has been offering od infinitum for 40 years. The PA's are slow to sell, but again, the PA's have been done a lot over four decades, too. As JFC454 has posted Lionel produced modern SD70ACe and ES44 diesels by going to the well too often with no rolling stock to mate with them.
Make no mistake: it is Lionel who has been at fault with little imagination or creativity.
Bob
Buyers in N, HO, and O scale would not likely buy diesels that have headlights in the wrong position. Maybe Lionel assumed S gauge modelers would accept all the non-heritage SD70ACe and ES44 with high mounted lights. The 2019 and 2020 releases looked great except the headlight position was wrong for most of the models. So I stopped buying at that point.
Not surprised that Lionel is dropping American Flyer. I run it around my Christmas tree and Lionel doesn't offer anything I'd be interested in. I've got a 7 car orange stripe passenger train. I'd like an orange stripe baggage car, but I'd have do it myself and baggage cars are too expensive to buy for repainting.
In addition to the Flyer 2025 Christmas boxcar, there is also a Flyer version of the boxcar paying tribute to Lionel's 150th birthday (which seems kind of ironic, don't you think?). They have it in O, O-27, S, & HO. How many guys will want an S gauge boxcar paying tribute to Lionel?
@TOKELLY posted:The implication is that they are through with American Flyer. Some is "still available" before it ends up painted in Christmas or Halloween livery to get it out the door without so much as a wave goodbye.
They are not going to re-paint already produced stuff for Christmas or Halloween to "get it out the door." 
My comment was a joke. My comment does, however, suggest that Lionel marketing seldom understood how the S scale market differed from the O scale market.
