New Lionel catalog arrives; sticker shock?

They are rediculous on their frieght cars but have come down a good bit on some of the high end steamers they had been asking 1600 for in previous catalogs so they are now in line with MTH Premier steamers that are comparable but overall Lionel is overpriced for sure especially with the number of items I have trouble with right out of the box.

I don't get "sticker shock" because I never pay sticker price for anything.  

 

Discounts can always be had if you are patient and shop around.

Vision Centipede at $2200.00, Cabooses at $90, Shay two-trucks at $900 ... geeze, rocket orbit altitudes for this guy.

I went back to buying pre-owned as current prices are too high, IMO.

 

Thank goodness for Williams and the tons of good MPC, Railking, and postwar stuff still floating out there!

I got more sticker shock looking at the new Williams by Bachmann catalog.

 

 

$380 for conventional 0-27 baby Alcos?!!!!!!

The prices were about what I expected. I went ahead and bought/ordered five locos out of the catalog, but I did shop some for the best discounts.  

 

I agree about the Williams catalog - their prices went up a lot.  I think this will be a continued trend, what with all the supplier problems and cost increases in China and otherwise.  We may soon get what everyone wishes for and have all model trains made in America - and have to pay made in American prices.  

Best deal out there is Railking scale!

I agree! Just recieved a Williams J and it didnt go in gomez Adams mode like the Lionel stuff!

I order almost all my stuff from Catoctin Moutain trains in Thurmont, MD.  He has an early buy price sheet that beats 99% of ones I get in the mail. 

I mentioned the high prices when the on line catalog appeared and no one said a thing about my post!!   Guess they didn't zoom in so they could read the prices.   Yes, Lionel is way high but they must have a better dealer margin and they do have a large set of 'groupies' with deep pockets that will buy anyway.  

 

There was a MTH PS2 Centipede on the buy/sell board for $550 just a few weeks ago!!  Lionel's $2200 is a lot money.  

 

The Lionel catalog does have a lot of nice offerings though I must admit.  

I buy a lot of used stuff: computers, cars, clothes, and trains. This way I can have more stuff!

But you will buy it even at its high price, every post someone is allways asking for the manufactures to make it bigger, and have more realistic looks and sound, and smoke coming out of every port and they do and this cost money. I own none of these products but enjoy your layouts an videos. I can honestly say the prices to me are way to high but manufacturing and shipping and r+d arent cheap so they make it and ship it an it will be bought and enjoyed by those that can afford it and by just as many that can't afford it but want it it is your money if this is your enjoyment go for it, an before you know it you will be saying I cant wait for the fall catalog an when that comes out you will say " have you seen the prices wow are they high, my thoughts have fun life is short..

Vision Centipede at $2200.00, Cabooses at $90,

 

The centipede has been there since the LAST catalog.

the cabooses have been like that for a couple of years now.

Its not 1955 anymore ..Considering it cost me 65 bucks to fill my car today with gas..

 

em1 for 1200bucks  in 2012 is cheap .Most where paying that 10 years ago ..

Not really sticker shock more like expecting Lionels prices to be as high as last year and the year before.
I don't want to pay those prices and they've decided to dump TMCC with no alternative in a lesser priced line of engines.
More power to em.
It's like going to the movies which is another luxury item. I can go now and see the latest on the silver screen and spend 30 or 40 bucks
Or I can be a year or so behind and watch it in the comfort of my own home for $2.99

I can buy an IMO overpriced engine now or wait and buy it used and save a lot of money. I'll choose to do the later  but how long can a company stay in business if a lot of folks think like me?
Time will tell.... won't it?

David

Well, maybe.

 

I guess it’s like anything else. Be a smart shopper, do your research, compare prices among dealers, consider pre-ordering at discounted prices for your “must haves,” and caveat emptor. 

 

With a healthy dose of  “…do I really need (blank)”  thrown in.

Cars and Trains OK, computers and clothing? Not in my life time!!!! Oh yea!! I want to wear somebody elses cloths. Computers may be OK but I don't buy used, technology moves too fast.

Yea prices are high but if you can afford it buy what you want. I only buy top of the line items in both Lionel and MTH but I limit my buys to what I can afford. I rather have some of the top of the line then lots of the cheaper items. 

That's the advice I would also recommend following.  This hobby can be as expensive or inexpensive as YOU allow it to be.  It never really was a "cheap" hobby for those who become heavily involved.

This thread is late, usually the moaning about prices happens withing a few minutes of catalog release.

 

Nice thing about O-Gauge you can pretty much find something in all price ranges, $2200 too high for a Deluxe Centipede then there are plenty of Pennsylvania Flyer sets out there for sale used and cheap or even the MTH version of the Centipede is cheaper

 

Things are not as cheap as they used to be, right now I am debating the merits of $3000 dollar Camera body vs a $6000 dollar one. Sure I could get a camerda at Costco for a couple hundred, but to get the features and capabilities I want I have to pay for it. That's how it is with trains

I agree with Kerrigan and others that the prices are outrageous in this catalog. As a 17 year old young adult I can tell you right now it would easily take me half a year to buy one of those engines. I have a part time job and that can't even bring in money fast enough. It makes me wonder how people who do buy alot of Lionel get all the money. Their engines are fantastic but the prices do not reflect the value. I got my Legacy E6 for 600 dollars and it has all the features of a typical Legacy steamer. Then again the prices are hardly ever MSRP at a good hobby shop but they still will be expensive with just a small discount. 

 

I am really hoping that Lionel brings down the prices quite a bit in the 2012 V2 catalog. They simply can't keep putting high end locomotives in their catalogs and expect the younger generation to keep with the hobby. They simply won't be able to afford it and it doesn't make sense. 

Trains don't cost more, your dollar is worth less.  Same thing for gasoline, food, and that next electronic gizmo you buy. 

 

The government has tripled the money supply over the past four or five years.  And guess what?  The price of your gas and food has tripled too.

 

It's like magic.

 

They wanted to have the government spend lots of money.  But raising taxes was unpopular.  Soooo.... they instituted the most regressive tax plan ever: print money, and pay for the expenditures with that.  

 

In effect it is a HUGE tax hike on everyone in every income group.  And because it sneaks up on you, you barely notice.

 

Jon

Very true Killian which makes this point even stronger.

I think that Jon hit the nail on the head with his above post. I get sticker shock about twenty times a day. 

Not only that, good old honest Uncle Sam has not included food and energy prices in the inflation index to ensure that inflation appears to be under control.  Unbelievably enough the vast majority of the American public buy into it.  Truly, we are a nation of sheep. 

I don't get sticker shock. It's simply a high priced hobby we are in.

Romiller

Yes the prices are high for a 17 year old's budget, but also believe me when I was your age the prices were just as out of reach. I made do with the same old PW engines and a few freight cars I found at garage sales. But keep with it and enjoy what you cna find in your budget,. one day you will be buying the bigger high dollar engines

Maybe we can create a train inflation index... I think engines would be part of core train inflation but diner cars and tankers designed to carry oil would be stripped out of the core TPI. . What would you strip out? I agree things have gotten expensive, but at the same time there was never a point in the past when I thought it was cheap. It does seen like someone willing to run conventional and buy used could do this hobby really cheap, but most of us are spoiled and want the fancy stuff myself included. When I first read through the catalog there were so many things I wished I could buy, but I don't need most of it and cant run it anyhow. So I will probably buy the Pennsy RS-11 and the offset hoppers and call it a day. In the past I probably would have gone overboard. It is, no doubt, a costly hobby, even when I am trying to be measured. Ben

At that rate of inflation I bet an ABA set of F units in the Lionel catalog 20 years from now will be exceeding $10,000 ... and we'll still be making a minimum wage that's mostly taxed away to pay for healthcare and educations for all etc ...

 

They aren't as bad as I thought they would be, Then again, I dont pay sticker price for anything. I usually get my stuff at cost :-)

I may be wrong about this but haven't electric trains always been somewhat pricey? I seem to remember an interesting thread where somebody showed the costs versus average income for various eras going back to the early Lionel days.

 

The conclusion was that it's not an inexpensive hobby. And never has been.

Hey guys on the williams engines go to a dealer or even to ma and pa junction he has engines for very cheap price u can buy an gp9 for 155.00 then backhamann site wants like 259.00 samr engine  

Yes, and it's all pretty much directly related to the time we're referencing.  

 

The first piece of motive power I ever bought with my own (hard-earned) money was a Lionel #41 Army switcher.  As I recall, I paid around $10.95 for that baby, and I mowed a number of yards in the neighborhood and trimmed more than a few hedges to accumulate those funds.  I was in my pre-teen years at the time.

 

The first real high-end Lionel set I had--the 2343 Santa Fe streamliner set of the early 1950s--was purchased by my dad for what I assume was around $80 at the time.  Seems like chicken feed today, but back then it was probably close to what my father likely made in a week.

 

Seen that way, the prices today are probably more in line with things than many here might be willing to admit.

 

My personal limit for a single item or set today is around $500.  For some in current times, that may also seem like chicken feed.  Others here would see it as a significant expenditure.  It all depends on individual circumstances and individual resources  I can say, without qualification, that there will ever be a $1,000+ locomotive running on my layout unless some guest brings one over to try it out. 

Okay...WHAT is in the Lionel catalog that is so desireable?  Will it get made even if

you reserve it and are willing to pay for it?  MTH's McKeen car isn't getting made....

it was the one item I wanted in THAT catalog..  What is new and different in this

Lionel catalog...?  Most of the stuff in the two major makers' catalogs hits me as

"same old same old", that is prototypes and roadnames, year after year.  (Occasionally I overlook something or find it will fit in with an industry....just had to track an MTH car to dealer stock in Nevada, but that is rare..I didn't think it was made..didn't show up on eBay for a couple of months)

Is the two truck Shay I've seen mentioned on here  in this Lionel catalog?  Is that kind of a reissue of the K-Line two truck Shay?  That might be interesting.

I guess I can't figure why some stuff sells and other stuff doesn't.  The WBB Casey

Jones got rave reviews in at least two of the hobby magazines.....and didn't sell

well enough to encourage the following Mikado?  (I did hear about production problems overseas...but is that not going to affect everything else in these catalogs?)

Look at the price of GAS, FOOD, TIRES and everything else.  Trains aren't the only thing with higher prices.  This economy is getting worse and it won't get much better until the people vote to change it.  The first promise of change took us here.

 

TEX

Steve

I didnt bother to look into it as the majority of posts already signaled that would be a moot point on several fronts. If I just want to look at pictures and read text OGR is a better option.

Don't know about that, but looking at comparable Lionel Legacy and MTH Premier products, like the GP-9s and GP-35s (both in their current catalogs), the Lionel Legacy engines are only $50 more than the MTH engines. 

 

Scant difference. Each person can decide which is the best value.

 

And the Atlas O GP-9s are more expensive yet, $20 more than the Lionel.

 

They're all expensive. Lots of sticker shock everywhere, no matter whose catalog you're looking at.

I was annoyed that the SD40-2's were $100 more than they were 6 years ago, even though there's no apparent changes other than new roadnames....