New Lionel Vision Line Niagara running smoothly, but sound turns off in the tender when crossing switches.

Sounds like a job for this unit.   One wire to track power, plug it into the battery plug, and no more sound cutout.  If that board doesn't have the battery connector cable, you'll need that as well.  The Vision Line Big Boy doesn't have the cable, don't know if they included it in the Niagara.

 YLB - RailSounds Battery Replacement

John, didn't someone here say the new Milwaukee steam didn't have a battery plug?

No problem when using Ross switches.  Atlas has had numerous issues with there switches over the years, some have been rectified while others not.  But the fix for this is simple as noted above.

It wouldn't matter if the chuff would automatically restart as on TMCC locos. The only ones folks have issues with are Legacy. 

Listen to what you guys are saying. You’re blaming Lionel for their engine losing sound going over a #5 or 7 atlas switch. Seems to me that atlas is the culprit. 

Lionel has not posted a parts list for the Vision Niagaras so I have no idea if the sound boards are new but Railsound 6 motherboards do have a connector on the board for a battery. 

The connector for it is this.

Pete

The not RS6 Pete, they're the RS-Lite boards.  They have the circuit for the battery, and the cable is the one I illustrated.  It's the same board as is used for the latest ERR RailSounds Commander kits.  From Bruk Bannister's excellent Legacy board document he posted a while back.

RS lite? I may have to start a rant against my own best advice.

Pete

As Jon Z. explained it, the RS Lite title was really not accurate, it's the latest RailSounds hardware.  I suspect the title came from the fact that it was a single board with power and sound all together as opposed to the modular setup.  It's not really "lite" in sound quality.

John Rowlen posted:

The new Vision Line Niagara #6013 is running smoothly after replacing the traction tire.  

Sincerely,  John Rowlen

Note:  The Owner's Manual on page two says I should receive the following:  1 - Vision Line Locomotive,   1 - Tender,   1 - Smoke fluid funnel,  1- WRENCH,  4 - Replacement traction tires,  1 - Niagara Owner's Manual,  and  1 - Orange Programming Module.  There was no wrench included with my engine.

Glad to hear you were able to replace the traction tire. 

I seem to recall your voicing some concerns regarding this action: was it difficult to do? I'm guessing the brake shoes were not too close to the wheels(?) Did you get the screwdriver(s) you needed?

In any case, here's hoping you can (now) fix this new problem...

"There's always something, Jane!" 

Mark in Oregon

romiller49 posted:

Listen to what you guys are saying. You’re blaming Lionel for their engine losing sound going over a #5 or 7 atlas switch. Seems to me that atlas is the culprit. 

HMMMM.....could be.

https://ogrforum.com/...ot-in-atlas-switches

https://ogrforum.com/...-over-atlas-switches

https://ogrforum.com/...spot-issue-need-help

https://ogrforum.com/...atlas-switches-again

https://ogrforum.com/...s-o-switch-questions

https://ogrforum.com/...17#71397234026057617

https://ogrforum.com/...atlas-switch-problem

https://ogrforum.com/...las-switch-problem-1

https://ogrforum.com/...rack-questions-atlas

https://ogrforum.com/...ead-section-of-track

https://ogrforum.com/...c-and-atlas-switches

Sound in new S3 does not work properly as the orig version always works.  Now the Niagara issues! I have two of these coming. Will probably not take delivery. Tired of all the BS

I wondered how long the Forum would remain quiet until this issue popped up; I discovered this on mine last Saturday on its first trip around my layout which has Atlas"O" 7.5 degree turnouts.

My fix, once the warranty period is over, will be to open it up and run a "hot" line from the locomotive back to the tender via a Miniatronics micro tether. Contrary to reports above, my sounds do "re-boot" once power returns almost immediately. I admit it is a PITA having the bass "come and go" twice each lap of my layout.

I have a RA number from Lionel to return mine tomorrow for repairs; my stack steam function had a "step-change" in output about 30 minutes after initial fire-up-"HIGH" steam selected looks more like "LOW" is requested now. Smoke was great the first 30 minutes. My bigger issue is the tender fill overflow feature doesn't always trigger the smoke output even though the sound function with it always works; when it does work, it will smoke you out of the room.

Lionel's position is my stack smoke malfunction is a result of using JT's MegaSteam "which coats the resistors with a gunk-like substance which decreases output". Lionel agreed to service the locomotive this one time, but will not for subsequent issues if I use MegaSteam fluid.......

If you install the YLB - RailSounds Battery Replacement, you won't have to have an extra tether wire.

D&H 65 posted:

Lionel's position is my stack smoke malfunction is a result of using JT's MegaSteam "which coats the resistors with a gunk-like substance which decreases output". Lionel agreed to service the locomotive this one time, but will not for subsequent issues if I use MegaSteam fluid.......

Funny that none of my many Lionel locomotives have suffered the same fate...

I have an e-mail in to Dean and Dave. Perhaps they have a suggestion that will work.

Scrapiron Scher posted:

I have an e-mail in to Dean and Dave. Perhaps they have a suggestion that will work.

just curious, you sent an e-mail for what? …..It aint a LIonel problem, its your track. you've already been given the solution....stick a YLB in it and move on....this aint brain science or rocket surgery....its one plug and one wire!

GunrunnerJohn,

Thank you for the information on the YLB Sound Battery.  What is the cost of this item?  If it is cheap, why doesn't Lionel install it on the expensive steam engines at the factory?  Is the life of the YLB short?  Does it charge from the track power?  When it comes to the electronics in the engine, I am lacking knowledge and confidence.  I don't want to fry the engines.

I have several Vision Line Big Boys and would like to add YLB to the engines.  I asked Lionel two years ago about power for the sound in a Vision Line Big Boy.  They never mentioned a YLB.  As I remember, the tender is a nightmare to open.  My beater Vision Line Big Boy I used to build my layout use to have the sound cut out.  It runs fine now.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John,

If you follow the YLB - RailSounds Battery Replacement link, it'll take you to the purchase page.

The life of the YLB should be the life of the electronics, it doesn't go bad like chemically based batteries.  It does indeed charge from track power, it's a one-wire connection to the center roller.  In most tenders, this is in a wire nut, so you just add the YLB power to the bundle.  The red wire is the power, then you just clip it into battery power cord.

I can't comment why Lionel doesn't include this technology in their products, that's a topic for them to address.   I'm sure they never mentioned the YLB, most of them probably don't know it exists.

I have opened the VL-BB locomotive, but not the tender.  However, from Alex's pictures of his teardown, I don't think it's that difficult to get into it.  However, they don't include the battery cable, so you have to add this battery cable, it's the same as comes with the ERR RailSounds Commander, they use the same hardware for Legacy.

Given enough demand, I could probably crank out a handful of the YLB batteries with that connector on a cord instead of the battery clip on the top of the package.  That would facilitate installing them into modern stuff that didn't include the battery cable.

GunrunnerJohn,

Thank you for the information about the YLB Battery.  I always thought YLB meant "young leggy blond."

I went to Hennings website and ordered two of the YLB.  Let's see if I am smart enough to hook them up correctly.

Thanks again.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John Rowlen posted:

GunrunnerJohn,

Thank you for the information about the YLB Battery.  I always thought YLB meant "young leggy blond."

I went to Hennings website and ordered two of the YLB.  Let's see if I am smart enough to hook them up correctly.

Thanks again.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

you'll be fine John, its easy peasy, I have added a few of Hennings (John's) YLBs to Steamers that had the 9 volt adapter and some of the latest that needed the plug and the YLB ….best thing to do with them.....never worry about a 9 volt going dead, and cross all the Atlas switches you desire buddy!

John Rowlen posted:

Thank you for the information about the YLB Battery.  I always thought YLB meant "young leggy blond."

That's the hidden meaning.

Has anyone run the Niagara over Lionel Command Fastrack Switches?? 

I ordered Generic 9V Battery Snap Clip to 2-pin PH2.0 Polarized Molex Connector Wire(pack of 5) from Amazon to use when the supplied cable is not install or broken.

RickM46 posted:

Has anyone run the Niagara over Lionel Command Fastrack Switches?? 

Not yet in my case but I have run it over K-Line SupaSnap 0-72 switches, which are problematic with some tenders. No sound drop-out at all. I did not think to check the tender for the distance between the center rollers (given that it is as long as it is it did not occur to me that this might be an issue). Based on my experience I can't imagine that there would be a problem with Fastrack switches.

RickM46 posted:

Has anyone run the Niagara over Lionel Command Fastrack Switches?? 

I have no sound issues with my new Niagara  running on Fastrack layout over O72 switches.

Davety posted:

I ordered Generic 9V Battery Snap Clip to 2-pin PH2.0 Polarized Molex Connector Wire(pack of 5) from Amazon to use when the supplied cable is not install or broken.

FWIW, that's not a mate to the connector on the RS Lite board used in Legacy tenders.  You'll have to replace that connector, so that's an expensive way to get a 99 cent battery clip.

The connector needed is the JST-PH series connector, JST #PHR-2.

John Rowlen posted:

GunrunnerJohn,

Thank you for the information on the YLB Sound Battery.  What is the cost of this item?  If it is cheap, why doesn't Lionel install it on the expensive steam engines at the factory?  Is the life of the YLB short?  Does it charge from the track power?  When it comes to the electronics in the engine, I am lacking knowledge and confidence.  I don't want to fry the engines.

I have several Vision Line Big Boys and would like to add YLB to the engines.  I asked Lionel two years ago about power for the sound in a Vision Line Big Boy.  They never mentioned a YLB.  As I remember, the tender is a nightmare to open.  My beater Vision Line Big Boy I used to build my layout use to have the sound cut out.  It runs fine now.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John

Fwiw, this is not a new issue.  Over the years, I have found that there are Williams locomotives that trip the circuit breaker on the PH180 when they cross the Lionel PW activated track (the one with the big red bullseye in the middle), Lionel locomotives that trip the circuit breaker when going over the low profile K line O42 switches, and MTH locomotives that stall when going over other K line switches.  Also, there are postwar Lionel steam locomotives that short out or derail randomly when going over Lionel's modular version of the O22 that was made in the 1990s.  Not justifying the problem, or saying it isn't annoying, but if the locomotive otherwise works it is something that you engineer around as part of the hobby.  Now, if it cuts out on a Lionel branded switch, then I would think that is sloppy.  But it is hard to make every locomotive from every manufacturer work flawlessly with every other manufacturer's switch tracks.  That just goes with the territory when you are buying different brands of trains and tracks.  If the YLP sound battery works, and I am sure it will, install it, move on, and enjoy what seems to be a heck of a locomotive.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Davety posted:

I ordered Generic 9V Battery Snap Clip to 2-pin PH2.0 Polarized Molex Connector Wire(pack of 5) from Amazon to use when the supplied cable is not install or broken.

FWIW, that's not a mate to the connector on the RS Lite board used in Legacy tenders.  You'll have to replace that connector, so that's an expensive way to get a 99 cent battery clip.

The connector needed is the JST-PH series connector, JST #PHR-2.

Thank you for that information, I incorrectly thought that was the right one. Where would you get that battery cable?

Edit: I found one on Lionel's part site, however it's $3.40 plus the shipping. 6911415129 HARNESS / 2-POS / 9V BATTERY $3.40

romiller49 posted:

Listen to what you guys are saying. You’re blaming Lionel for their engine losing sound going over a #5 or 7 atlas switch. Seems to me that atlas is the culprit. 

Ron,

It is a Legacy software issue that the sounds do not automatically restart again when power and common are reestablished after crossing the switch.

None of the TMCC engines we have suffer from this, yet all the Legacy steam run on the layout does.

Well, I know that the cables that come with the ERR RailSounds Commander are the correct configuration, they were made to plug into the same board.

If I needed quantity, I'd buy the 20Pcs 9V Battery Snap-on Connector Clip With Wire Holder 15cm Cable Leads Cord, eBay: 302388423920 for $2.03 shipped, and add the 50 Sets Mini Micro JST 2.0mm PH 2-Pin Connector Plug With Wires Cables 120mm New, eBay: 352101796921 for $2.95 shipped.  You can splice the wires together and avoid crimping any pins, and you'd have twenty cables for $5.  You can also buy the connectors and pins and put them on the battery holders, that's probably how I'd do it.  You're going to be replacing the board connectors on most anything you find unless you get lucky.

If you invest in the $40 crimp tool (a one-time purchase), you could buy these JST PH 2.0mm 2-Pin Female Connector Crimp Contact Pin+Male Header Connector x 50, eBay: 181441351410 for $6.50 shipped and be ready to build up to 50 sets with the above battery clips.  This makes a bit neater cable and replaced the splice option.

Plenty of ways to skin this cat, but you need the right connector. 

Watch the polarity as well, getting it backwards will spoil your whole day!

I just received an e-mail from Dave Olsen at Lionel who said: "Yes, his (Gunrunner John's) replacement alternative works in any Legacy engine with a RSL board so long as there is space to mount it. The PT tender has a lot packed into it so space is a premium."

Though I did not ask Dave if this would void the warranty, I assume it will yet I will add this replacement since I have those long switches all over the layout. I did not know this alternative existed and assumed I was dead in the water prior to reading about these circuits. Electrical issues are daunting to me.

Thanks to Gunrunner and others for posting and explaining.

Scrappy

BobbyD posted:

It wouldn't matter if the chuff would automatically restart as on TMCC locos. The only ones folks have issues with are Legacy. 

I have a TMCC Lionel 2-6-6-2 and a Legacy 2-6-6-2.

At times, the Legacy sounds will drop out over a certain stretch of switches - all Gar Graves - and they do not restart. The track has to be shut down then powered up. Ludicrous, to say the least.

The TMCC loco has no such issues - if it does drop out, the sounds come back on their own. How in heaven's name can this Legacy "feature" be considered acceptable? Another reason I prefer TMCC (it was too good to survive).

The drop-out is not the issue - it's an electric train; fleeting power interruptions are unavoidable - it's how the sound (and any other) system handles it, or, in the case of Legacy, apparently does not.

The switches are not to "blame". 

Why would this problem even exist? If it is a pattern, it defies logic.

jim911 posted:

Sound in new S3 does not work properly as the orig version always works.  Now the Niagara issues! I have two of these coming. Will probably not take delivery. Tired of all the BS

If you have a bad pick up on the newer RailSound boards ("RS-lite board") the sound will cut out. It will remain cut out until you hit reset on the remote or reset the power. The older TMCC/Early Legacy stuff did not care.

The optional 9v Battery is what keeps the sound up when it hits a larger than normal dead spot.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

John,

If you follow the YLB - RailSounds Battery Replacement link, it'll take you to the purchase page.

The life of the YLB should be the life of the electronics, it doesn't go bad like chemically based batteries.  It does indeed charge from track power, it's a one-wire connection to the center roller.  In most tenders, this is in a wire nut, so you just add the YLB power to the bundle.  The red wire is the power, then you just clip it into battery power cord.

I can't comment why Lionel doesn't include this technology in their products, that's a topic for them to address.   I'm sure they never mentioned the YLB, most of them probably don't know it exists.

I have opened the VL-BB locomotive, but not the tender.  However, from Alex's pictures of his teardown, I don't think it's that difficult to get into it.  However, they don't include the battery cable, so you have to add this battery cable, it's the same as comes with the ERR RailSounds Commander, they use the same hardware for Legacy.

Given enough demand, I could probably crank out a handful of the YLB batteries with that connector on a cord instead of the battery clip on the top of the package.  That would facilitate installing them into modern stuff that didn't include the battery cable.

John

I’d be interested in the YLB with the connection already attached.  If you don’t get the interest I’ll buy it and the battery clip from Lionel  

Mike 

FWIW, there are some TMCC locomotives that won't restart the sounds until at least a RESET (Aux1/0) is issued.  I don't recall any that needed a full power cycle, but I have a number of Legacy locomotives that do.  Well, let's say they did, now that they all have my battery product, they don't have any sound issues.

ezmike posted:

John

I’d be interested in the YLB with the connection already attached.  If you don’t get the interest I’ll buy it and the battery clip from Lionel  

Mike 

So far, one.

And from the guy who doesn’t have any of those pesky switches to deal with. 

Mike

gunrunnerjohn posted:

ezmike posted:

John

I’d be interested in the YLB with the connection already attached.  If you don’t get the interest I’ll buy it and the battery clip from Lionel  

Mike 

So far, one.

Add me in John, so now your demand has doubled! 😃

I have had trouble with my sound cutting out as well just crossing over 2 3 foot section of old style tubular track and if I moved or pushed the engine sounds would return , I believe your all right about the tender roller causing this issue or even engine stopping and moved by hand and engine then came alive again this  was on 2 brand new 3 foot straight sections of track no switches involved! any ideas why GGG! aside from this issue the Niagara's are great!

Alan