New O Gauge Enthusiast - Need Recommendations

Welcome to the hobby DEUCE. At four years old that may be a tad young for him to actually play with the trains. If you are going to roll up your sleeves and get into trains you are better to start small. I personally think you can build something for your son but you should also be interested in it too because if by chance his interest wanes then you are not left in the cold so to speak investing in a layout and a hobby.............Paul

Deuce,

All of my kids really enjoyed the operating accessories, operating milk car, loaders....anything they could push a button and watch something happen. Hours of enjoyment for them and me too. Ha.

It's all quality time. Just have fun!

John

Bingo! John’s got it exactly right and those were going to be my recommendations.

Some of the classic Lionel operating accessories would be perfect for holding a 4 year-old’s attention (well, most of the time  ). And if they’re activated by a simple momentary (push) button, even better. Push the red button, see the action.

Many of the best Lionel accessories were produced years ago. However they’re still available on Ebay and/or some train dealers. Not sure about the more modern stuff.

I’m sure you’ll get plenty of suggestions.

Welcome aboard and enjoy.
My dad always said get involved what your kids like.
If your son decide another interest later on , at least you planted a seed in him and hopefully he will get back in when he is older

  A Lionel barrel car will keep a 4 year old busy for a little while. Easy to load and unload.

   Lets go Mets !

I would also suggest keeping that box of wooden track and trains nearby as well.  I'm in a similar situation as you, and the kids love building and rebuilding the plastic Thomas track in different configurations as well as working with me and seeing the 3 rail "real" layout.  They also love to get their hands on the things to push around the track, which is great, but I wouldn't let anything of fragility or value near arms reach for them.  I would keep building the layout that you have planned for the kids see, play with, and continue to grow into, and if possible keep the box of wooden track under the layout table so they can play and enjoy that while you work on the "real" layout.  Their interest will jump between the floor trains and what the "real" trains are doing and back.  Accessories and push buttons are a big hit.  Adding Disney characters to flatcars and gondolas are also a hit as they can wave to Mickey Mouse, Princess Anna, and the Paw Patrol crew as they speed by.  

Finding a way to make the train disappear and reappear is important in my experience.  A tunnel on an elevated layout or furniture on the floor should do the trick.  A sofa works best so the little ones can climb up and see where the train went (just stand close so they don't fall).

What, me worry? 

Push button accessories are always a big hit.  Something like a gateman shed or a whistle, two of which I use on my own layout for the same reason. My suggestion though would be to replace the little tiny activation button with something easier for kids to use. I have had great luck with doorbell buttons.  Get the cheaper unlit kind because they don’t pass any current until pressed.

Many of the current starter sets come with a remote.  If you set the transformer voltage to a lower output they can still use the remote but less chance of a calamity.

Also be sure to leave room in the corners, it will fly off the rails.One I f the best ways is to make up a game delivering things around the tracks in gondolas or hoppers.

I got my first Lionel train before my 4th birthday - no problem with adult supervision.  

I'll second the suggestions re keeping the wooden track nearby and the barrel car - lots of action with no mess.

For a visual trick, build the short tunnel where a long train disappears (loop of track under the table).  Don't know if this can be done with Fastrack or if it only works with O-27, but it's a neat trick.

Kids like to put 'things' in the train cars and haul them around to another location to be unloaded. Wooden blocks or anything like that they they can load and unload from the cars. Even plastic people, animals, etc. My grandson is now 12 and has liked doing that as long as I can remember and still likes it. 4 may be a little young, but maybe a siding or two where he can load and unload. If he is still a little young for that he will be growing in to it before too long. 

Of course this is in addition to the operating accessories, keeping the wooden train and track around and the other good suggestions above. My grandson also loved building tracks with the wooden trains and track, but grew out of that by about 6 or 7.

Good luck and I hope you can keep him interested!

When my son was little he enjoyed playing with trains more than running them. I would give him a non powered engine and some cars and he would push them around the tracks.

paul 2 posted:

Welcome to the hobby DEUCE. At four years old that may be a tad young for him to actually play with the trains. If you are going to roll up your sleeves and get into trains you are better to start small. I personally think you can build something for your son but you should also be interested in it too because if by chance his interest wanes then you are not left in the cold so to speak investing in a layout and a hobby.............Paul

Depends on the child. My grandson was skillful and respectful at two years old.

My other experience with both grandsons is that around age six years their interest fled for...gasp...electronic crap. So, think mostly of your own future desires.

Addition: 2-yr-old great-grandson's introduction to trains

I would stay with things that they can handle and play with.  As mentioned above; log dump cars; barrel cars; coal dump cars; rotating searchlight cars; and operating milk car (my favorite).   If you have room there are log loaders, barrel loaders and coal loading accessories to load freight back onto the car.  But in the beginning its easiest to let them load the cars back up by hand.  Gondola cars are very cheap and kids love to put their favorite toys in the gondolas for a ride.   A smoking steam engine with a whistle is a huge plus.  As mentioned pushing mechanical buttons enhances the interaction for the child.

In the beginning my grandson could not tolerate any of his hot wheels cars or other toys being in or on an operating train.  So my wife or I would be on the other side of the room loading his toys into gondolas so he could rescue them off the train as it passed by him.  Eventually he began putting them in and leaving them on the train.

I second AUSSTEVE's recommendations. Kids get bored pretty quickly watching trains go around. But they'll play with operating cars and accessories much longer.

If you're an OU fan, I'll give you a hand. Just hide the Mets jersey. Hit me with an e-mail if you would like to correspond. I do the juice train, too and we can discuss it.

Deuce, you'll be hard pressed to find a bigger advocate for kids and trains on this forum than me. So since you asked....

Build the layout for YOUR SON (s) first. In the long history of this hobby, father's bought trains and then built a layout for their boys. Today, it seems to have reversed and we have father's building train layouts for themselves and then trying to get their boys involved.

5x8 or 5x9 is just fine. Most people in the hobby do not have basement sized layouts. You're young with young boys. What if you have to change jobs and move? Might be a good idea to design something that is movable.

Affordable and durable does not equal SCALE. For over 100 years, Lionel meant "not to scale." Now, because of the newer scale proportioned trains, there's a new term: semi-scale (or traditional). But these are the kinds of trains you'll pretty much want to look for. And for a variety of reasons, prices of used traditional trains are for the most part, attractive. Though depending on your free time, you might want to avoid trains that are not guaranteed to work. The older trains are all fixable, but it takes time and the know-how.

Kids like the operating cars and accessories. There are simple ones, like the giraffe car (where the giraffe ducks his head automatically via a track trip), the animated aquarium cars (again, operating via either track power, or the less costly ones, by movement of the train, or the operating barrel car.

Kids also like to see how fast the trains will run, so you might want to have the track away from the very edge of the layout, or build the layout board closer to the floor, having plush carpeting on the floor.

Forget the replica of the juice train. First and foremost, the hobby is for your boys and yourself to enjoy together. To my knowledge, there is no traditionally sized CSX juice train, though there are scale versions, which are going to be more detailed (easier to kids to break) and MORE costly.

That's not to say you can't mimic CSX trains. Lionel has recently made a LionChief CSX set and makes some LionChief Plus CSX locomotives. BUT remember your budget. All the newer trains with any sort of digital control and features, will as a rule, cost you more money.

You might want to consider as an early purchase, a separate transformer if you don't have one. Your Pennsylvania Flyer set likely came with the wall wart, unless it was an older set. The postwar Lionel 1033 is a superb one for a layout with young kids, but find one that has been serviced. With two potential settings of voltage to the track, it allows you to limit how fast kids can run the trains.

And the reason I mention a transformer, is then you can look for any multitude of locomotives made prior to the advent of the digital control systems. These locomotives generally do not have the sound packages, but are reliable and are more affordable. Lionel and K-Line (now out of business) both have made CSX engines that are affordable. Some of the early made MTH Railking and Rugged Rails trains have engines and rolling stock in CSX.

I run starter set stuff personally. Some of these trains get a bad rap on this forum, along with Lionel products from the MPC era. In almost 30 years, I have never had one defect, or a DOA out of the box. That said, I also take care of my trains. And everything still works to this day. I've had to replace one smoke unit out of a Lionel starter set 4-4-2 (the oldest one I have), I've had one DC motor go bad, and had one circuit board fail after a year or so, and that was an RMT (Ready Made Trains) Rail Diesel Car... but I got it for such a deal, I can't complain. I fixed it with an extra circuit board I had.

A good rule for starter sets: NEVER put an engine with plastic gears directly on carpeting, or on a dirty basement floor either. Lubricated gears can pick up stuff, and then you have an engine that doesn't work. Can happen with metal gears too.

Don't be in a hurry... take your time. Folks get into the hobby and move too fast without thinking ahead and figuring out what they can afford versus what they want. Besides, unless you're rich, you WON'T be able to do it all at once.

And don't be discouraged about all the 'scale' talk. Lionel trains have always been toys. And YOUNG boys want to play with toys. You wouldn't be pleased if your young boys broke some expensive engine or train car. It might even make them feel bad and discourage them from liking the hobby. Also you'll read a lot of talk here about trains not being accurate enough, or prototypical. That's fine for those guys, but your boys will likely not notice the CSX logo on a caboose style never owned by the CSX.

The new scale trains being made with all their realism and features are AMAZING, no doubt about it. They are also more costly and far more prone to having parts not being available any more, versus many of the traditional trains which sold in multiples ten of thousands, had lengthy production runs MEANING parts are easier to find.

There are ways to do this hobby on a budget! I know because I DO. But it means I have to adjust what I like and can run on my layout. But it's no big loss... I hear all the sounds in my imagination, and the trains look just as real.... without having spent all the money.

BUT ultimately, it's up to you. The main thing is to run the trains for fun, not frustration.

 Four isn't too young for some kids. I was assembling Super O myself .... poking holes in my thumbs with those thin copper pins; blood & tears on my track...wiping it away to continue ... "Good times"

 Are YOUR tastes for pre war, post war, mpc, or modern? Conventional or command? Modeling, pure toy, or in between?

  A cast train is a good start; more durable. I agree, max speeds will be tested. It's teaching him physics If you think he will push the wheels, avoid engines with worm gears. Worm gears should not be moved at the wheels. Get him an old steamer, they nearly freewheel. Good trains come out under closer supervision.  Claim nicer loco's for yourself and use them as long term insentives; a prize for a goal, or minding encouraged behavior.

MPC Lionel, still cheap enough to bust or bash into what you want. No guilt over a classic destroyed or worries on costs.

   Hoppers, gondolas, flats (and rubber bands! (or hair bands) Red or black, none of that plain crap .. ) and Evans Autoloaders. Operating accessories and cars! Deep pockets? TMCC remote crane car . A gantry crane is kinda better, and has been around for half a century.  Barrel loader is simple. Milk cars and package/ice cars are nice. My top ten favorites off the top of my head....#1 a rocket launch car ( exploding target car is a bonus) #2 the post war gunfighter car. #3 giraffe car. #4 Spotlight car (spinning)  #5 Aqurium car (moving/lighted ones). #6 mail pouch grabbing car #7 radar car #9 log dump car #10 the milk/package/ice cars.

Lighted caboose. A lighted passenger coach. (And watch him, does he prefer people operations over freight? Is his preference playing on his own? Together? Following your lead? Taking the lead? Does he "loop" and dream, or act out orchestrated operations?)

  For operating accessory favs #1 a motorized crane . #2 the big rocket launch pad and gantry. #3 log loader/saw mill (& dump car) #4 barrel loader (unloading car a bonus) #5 culvert loader (unloader is more complex, maybe later) #6 a water tower #7 PostWar News stand (great for the very youngest able to push a button. "Spot" circles a fire hydrant with a leg up ) #8 a bubbling oil derrick (no button, just fascinating and the glow & click clack rythm of the pump, soothing) #9 Yard tower... I like this better than the flagman shacks. #10 crossing gates....note that is plural; one doesn't really finish the scene.

    Tunnels are great! I like my corner/curved tunnel, but they only fit one diameter curve, a straight shot goes anywhere, long is better. 

Buttons... the Lionel #90 is what you want if you can use it (some modern things wont like it) It's the iconic post war "red L button". Faster and more durable than a doorbell button. Make that VERY durable.

   It depends on what trains you'll run, but when it's time for more power the Z1000, 1033 or CW80 would be the smallest to consider imo. And they still have only one throttle.    You really want 100w each or more IMHO, and two throttles on one unit is nice. Nobody complains about too much power; so when you feel ready to buy new power, buy big, and grow into it.

   Another consideration is to allow for using this layout as a module to expand off of later. Heck, build it like show modules and the changes are limitless.

Keep a carpet loop active while you build. It keeps the fun and interest up; and fresh ideas flowing.

Menard’s is an excellent source for freight cars at a low price.

Wow, thanks everyone. A lot to consider, but a lot of promising avenues to look into. I'll admit, with the wooden trains and my son, the longer the train the happier he is. That is a bit difficult with O scale, but with my "optical maturity" it puts N and Z scale out of my range as well! So I think we'll manage with the O scale for now, and if he (or his younger brother get hooked) we'll either find/build more space or delve into HO or smaller.

The Juice Train was my "long term" goal for myself, as I think I'd like to have something a bit "realistic" if ever time, money, and space allow ... but I don't think I have the need to be hyper-realistic. Actually, the more bells and whistles, the happier I think I'd be ... so in that regard my son and will be on the same page early on ... so as someone mentioned, I think I'd view it more from the "toy perspective". I am finding it fun to learn about the history of railroading, so having something that looks real does still appeal to me.

As for the train that has started this whole thing, it's the current LionChief Pennsylvania Flyer 0-8-0 which has the "wall wart". I have an old 50 W Trainmaster transformer (4150) from a Pioneer Dockside O37 set, which with the help of a couple of internet tutorials, I managed to wire onto some FasTrack. It's what I'm going to use to run the trolley under the Christmas tree this year. I do plan on getting something a bit more powerful and controllable though.

I grabbed the Lionel FasTrack book which has both inspired and intimidated me. I may be a bit more limited in space than I originally thought. The area I wanted to put the train in will only fit a 5x6 table (which I planned on building a lip around the edge, to keep derails from hitting the floor), though I could go 5x8 or 6x9 in the back area of the workshop if I buy an extra shed to put all of the tools, lawnmower, tiller, etc. I'll have to have negotiations with the wife to see if that area can be repurposed. I'm thinking start with the 5x6 and if we (the kiddo and I) outgrow it, I can petition for more space.

I really appreciate all the advice and suggestions. I'll try to go slow, though that never really has been my nature. I definitely need to keep it on a budget though, so the top of the line trains aren't in my immediate future (maybe one or two when I retire a couple of decades from now?) For now, I'll look for those push-button accessories, and lots of other bells and whistles to keep my son's (and my) interest high. Thank you so much for your responses so far, they're really going to help.

I'd look into cheaper Postwar Lionel steamers for expansion. 2037s are common and relatively cheap. The nice thing is, if he somehow manages to break it, Postwar engines are easy to fix and there are parts readily available. 

We had a 2055 come through the shop the other day. It's listed for only $50 and just needs a clean and lube to run smoothly. 

Best part about Postwar is how dependable they are. I don't have anything too old other than a 671, but something lasting that long is a testament to their quality.

Welcome! I suggest trying to get things he can play with himself to give him some freedom to learn. My 3 yr old has been running my trains either with a transformer handle or the dcs remote for  over a year. The lionel sets with a remote are great as we have the lionel thomas and at full speed on the oval wont fly off. To keep him engaged see if he likes movies like polar express. My son does themovie lines while he operates and does not have a real pe... yet. My son also enjoys a nice 1hr train ride by a local museum and seeing real trains. The tie from real to toy is what kept me interested this long i think.

cheers!

andrew

Welcome to the hobby Duece.  I have a 4 year old grandson that absolutely loves trains so I keep him involved in the layout building as much as I can, small things like painting, landscaping, ballasting track and making trees.  He loves to be involved so my advise to you is to keep your son involved, even small things will give him a sense of accomplishment and pride which will enforce his love of trains.  Oh and run the trains as much as possible, my grandson loves the Lionchief Plus locomotives, the remotes aren't overwhelming letting him control his favorite engines.

Paul

Serows1 posted:

Welcome to the hobby Duece.  I have a 4 year old grandson that absolutely loves trains so I keep him involved in the layout building as much as I can, small things like painting, landscaping, ballasting track and making trees.  He loves to be involved so my advise to you is to keep your son involved, even small things will give him a sense of accomplishment and pride which will enforce his love of trains.  Oh and run the trains as much as possible, my grandson loves the Lionchief Plus locomotives, the remotes aren't overwhelming letting him control his favorite engines.

Paul

Lionchief in general is great. The shop I work at has been selling sets like crazy lately. Everyone seems to love the RC function.

I concur with the above.   My insights:

1) Keep it simple.  Nothing frustrates young operators more than a train that doesn't work.   So no fancy Lion Chief remotes that can break, electronic reverse units that unexpectedly lock in neutral and so forth.   The locomotives I use for public displays either have their E units locked in forward or removed entirely and the motor wired for forward only. 

2) Keep it interesting.  A unit train of refrigerator cars fascinates the experienced modeler, but to the eyes of a youngster, it's just a bunch of cars that look the same and which loses interest after a few minutes.    Look to the classics;  Lionel marketed trains with a box car, flat car, tank car, hopper, gondola and caboose for a very good reason:  Play interest.   One of the best kid-oriented layouts I've seen has buttons on the side of the layout which operate various accessories such as a crossing gate, flashing signal, gateman, rotating beacon and so forth: 

 I feature a battery operated whistling station that I built myself at my show layouts.   Operating cars are good;  I made my reputation with lines of giraffe cars bobbing their heads.  

3) Keep it reliable.  See 1).  Stick to pre-electronics locos and sturdy, rather than prototypical, rolling stock.   In addition, go with transformers that offer a range of voltages (for example, the 1033, 1034 and RW).  This allows you to dial the voltage down when Junior is running the train.  

Welcome aboard!  As you've seen, you'll find no shortage of advice here.   Feel free to ask questions!   

Oh!  And when Junior breaks the Pennsylvania Flyer:   https://ogrforum.com/...wrecked-frisco-0-8-0 .  That's actually a relettered Pennsy Flyer loco...  ;-) 

Mitch 

Duece

Welcome to the forum great people willing to help, at any level, and any size layout. 

Think of this as a start. In Mitch's  photo above,  there is a Brakeman car and a Bronx Zoo car. Both of which I got for Christmas when I was a kid.  My parents would buy me one car every year, I still have those.. 55 years later. Your building memories for both of you.

I may need to pull them out, along with the security car and the autocarrier and put them behind my  2055 Lionel Engine.  

Brought a smile to my face when I saw to top of the orange T on the royal blue.  Lets Go Mets!

bptBill

Hollow core door Has a small foot print. Here is one I did for my son. 

Update: grabbed a Lionel Thomas the Train ready to run set,  unopened, for less than half the cost. That gives me more FasTrack and another transformer.  With the O27 track to run a small trolley or gang car, I just need a couple switches to get a decent layout done.

Hunting for cattle cars, milk cars, barrel cars, coal dumpers has begun. If i can get one or two of those before Christmas, I think it'll be a great start!

Thanks again to everyone for their advice!

Deuce,

   I recommend the purchase of a Lionel Hallmark Santa Express Train, it keeps the children's attention with both the incredible colors and the Talking Santa Engine.  The remote control is easy for the kids to use and understand.  He will love this Christmas Present on Christmas morning!

My wife got me one for Christmas last year, I am the biggest kid around!

PCRR/Dave

Serows1 posted:

Welcome to the hobby Duece.  I have a 4 year old grandson that absolutely loves trains so I keep him involved in the layout building as much as I can, small things like painting, landscaping, ballasting track and making trees.  He loves to be involved so my advise to you is to keep your son involved, even small things will give him a sense of accomplishment and pride which will enforce his love of trains.  Oh and run the trains as much as possible, my grandson loves the Lionchief Plus locomotives, the remotes aren't overwhelming letting him control his favorite engines.

Paul

Fabulous! Reminds me of my son when he was little. He was beating me in chess when he was 5. As he got a few years older, he got bored quickly running trains, even on a complex, large layout, but loved designing and building the layout with me as a child. His favorite thing was watching and helping me service and tune the Lionel 022 switch tracks. We took them apart and he was fascinated by the operating mechanism. He has always admired inventors like Edison, Tesla and the immigrants Lionel hired to invent and create their operating accessories. My son, who ran trains using a ZW transformer as an infant, is now 29 years old and loves his work as a mechanical engineer. I'm very pleased that he is smarter than me.

Getting young children engaged in O Gauge trains is very good for their mental development. The younger they get started, the better, with adult supervision, of course. I believe I have read that the mental stimulation that electric trains can provide for young children is very good for the development of their brains. 

A 1 or 2 year old, properly supervised, will love having her/her hand on the throttle of a ZW running a 2065 post war steamer on track around a Christmas tree. That post war engine is indestructible. Let him run it full throttle if he wants. An NFL place kicker can kick it 60 yards through goal posts in the rain and it will still run. Infants are powerless and that ZW makes them feel sooo good.

Maybe that's why my son was beating me in chess at the age of 5.

Ok folks ... another question. I've been reading the forum and looking at my books, and wondering a bit about maintenance. Particularly the boxcars with worm gears, and my engines. I figure everyone has their preferences, so I'll hopefully make it simple.  For my worm-gears, I was thinking of buying Williams EZ-Lube grease. For my axles, I was thinking of buying Williams EZ-Lube light gear oil. Will these serve me well, and do I need anything else? I was going to clean my track with 91% isopropyl alcohol. Thanks!

EZ Lube oil for the axles yes! I found Williams EZ Lube grease was a little too thin / not thick enough in my opinion. I went with red and tacky!

Train Nut posted:

EZ Lube oil for the axles yes! I found Williams EZ Lube grease was a little too thin / not thick enough in my opinion. I went with red and tacky!

This Red and Tacky?

https://www.grainger.com/product/49EP39

Deuce posted:

Ok folks ... another question. I've been reading the forum and looking at my books, and wondering a bit about maintenance. Particularly the boxcars with worm gears, and my engines. I figure everyone has their preferences, so I'll hopefully make it simple.  For my worm-gears, I was thinking of buying Williams EZ-Lube grease. For my axles, I was thinking of buying Williams EZ-Lube light gear oil. Will these serve me well, and do I need anything else? I was going to clean my track with 91% isopropyl alcohol. Thanks!

@Deuce, There are many opinions on what the best lubricants are - any of them would be adequate including your William's assortment you selected. The biggest take away is any purpose marketed lubricants should be fine. AVOID WD-40 and non-plastic safe items.

Yes. Amazon sells it in a tub too.  More than you will ever need in your lifetime. But well worth it and easier to use than the tube in my opinion..   and when I bought it cheaper than the tube too!

Deuce, since many of my trains have plastic gears (including the gear type operating box cars, animated aquarium car, chase gondola) I strictly use lubricants that are labeled as PLASTIC SAFE and I have never had any trouble. Brands would include LaBelle and Hob-E-Lube, which have both come in variety packs so you get different types with one purchase.

And as I mentioned before, I NEVER put anything with lubed gears on the floor or especially carpeting. If need be, I use clean sheets of paper or cardboard to set a loco upon a carpeted surface. And despite grumbles from some about plastic gears, I've never had a failure or trouble in nearly 30 years. And this includes locos from the MPC era that are clearly older than that. Not stressing the loco (ie: the gears) by pulling trains too heavy or long for the loco is also another consideration.

I've never used Red and Tacky, so I can't speak for that.