New to O

https://ogrforum.com/f...ge/true/IMGP3646.JPG

this is the only example that i can find that pertains to my idea.

Power supply wise I was thinking of the z4000 with 2 of their wireless remotes.

Welcome to the forum and to O Gauge. You can find the answers to many of your questions here. This is a very helpful group. I suggest you visit the layout building, electrical and the TMCC forums for some of your answers. Welcome again and happy railroading.

Zach,

I too came from over 4 decades of HO so the around the walls, no central control panel idea makes sense to me and is my intent as well.  Unfortunately, I have not built the layout to show you an example.  I have been in O gauge a little over 3 years, and have a temporary 4x8 just to have something to run trains on until I can get a room freed up when our last daughter moves out.  I have a DCS, but only run two trains, one each on non-connected loops for the time being.  Some one will pitch in some more information soon, I am sure.

Welcome to O gauge! 

Welcome to the Forum.

I'm assuming by raised carpet layout you mean using carpeting as your layout base. Many of us have that setup. Here are a few pictures of mine.

I don't have carpeting on top of my layout (yet), but it is an around the room layout.  The room is about 27' x 28'.  There are 2 levels: upper level is for G gauge and lower level is for O gauge.  Here are some construction pictures from a few weeks ago:

Hey, its good to know im not the only one who wants to run it around the wall on carpet. Very nice examples. Thanks! How deep are your shelves for reference.

Since we would like our basement to have a bar and more of a family area, I will not want all the shelving to be too wide, as some areas will go down to a single track width, but im sure there will be room for a wider area for operating interest and maybe a yard.

Is a carpeted layout more common then one would think?

Welcome to the forum. I'm sure you will get all the answers to your questions.

O gauge requires a boat load of money compared to HO. Are you sure you want to make the change?

I am aware that O will be more expensive then HO. There are moments where cost is the same for both, others O is higher. 

I use to fly RC helicopters and if you want to talk about expensive... Mind you this was before my wife and I started dating, and when we met I had better things and places to put my money. 

The money thing is a stunner, but the big hurdle is the space needed.

To do a modest layout in O takes a boat load of room.

I converted from HO to O after 20 years in HO. I have tried to take some of the HO layout ideas and layout planning into an O scale environment....

After the space shock has hit you, you will be faced with very little room for scenery, buildings, and boxes... 

The big plus is you can see everything better, sounds are fantastic,  and the quality and feel of the O gauge models is a big plus.

Welcome Zach,

O gauge trains are a bit larger in size but they don't all play together like H.O. does with command control. In H.O. for the most part you have DCC, however in O gauge you have TMCC & Legacy by Lionel, DCS by MTH. Lionel and MTH command control systems don't control each other's engines, you must have a Lionel command control base for Lionel and you must have an MTH base for MTH. The two can be put together but you must buy both systems and then an adapter cable to go between the two control bases. 

Atlas and Weaver used to use Lionel's TMCC in their engines for command control.

One other important thing is that most O gauge engines are A.C. voltage unless 2 rail O scale. H.O. trains are D.C. voltage. Power supplies in O gauge are called transformers and not power packs like in H.O.

If you get into Williams or Williams by Bachmann it will get more confusing as well.

Williams has a remote control to operate some of their operating cars and it only works with Williams, and can not be accessed by any command control system unless added in to the operating car. The newer Williams by Bachmann(Bachmann bought out Williams and added it to their line so you will hear of Williams by Bachmann[WBB] and Williams before Bachmann) remote will work with all Williams(both Williams & Williams by Bachmann) & K-Line cars.

K-Line used to make model trains in O gauge and they too had a remote control for their operating cars and it only works on K-Line products.

Track in O gauge can get confusing as well, as there are many companies who make track. Companies who make only track are; Gargraves and Ross Custom switches.

Companies who make both track and trains are; Atlas, Lionel, MTH, and Williams.

Some differences in track are tubular and added in roadbed like Lionel's Fastrack or MTH's Realtrax.

Another track system in O gauge is either Super Streets(K-Line's name) or E Z Streets(Bachmann's name) and they work together but you might see a color difference in the newer tracks. This track is mainly for smaller type engines or trolleys to run on.

Lee Fritz

Philly,

I am aware of the compatibility issues between TMCC and DCS. If i did go digital, I would go DCS with the TMCC module so I would at least be able to run both lionel and MTH on one. That lack of compatibility is why i would like to stay conventional. 

Just for fun, I looked into and would quite easy to do is convert my WBB loco and the hogwarts express into DCC. NCE offers a true o scale decoder where digitrax offers an o scale decoder, but it uses RMS which I do not want. I could very well use my NCE system and get a 10 amp booster. All the new locos that I have seen are useing can DC motors, using a full bridge rectifier in their reversing board to convert AC into DC. This is my MAJOR gripe about O, not following NMRA standards.

The only reason I am not going the DCC route is simply to keep the locos authentic and to have the ability to run AC motor locos. 

Good info on the bachmann remote, i was unaware of that. Track wise I will be sticking with Fastrack.

Welcome to the Forum. Looks like you received some very good responses.

zackesch,

Welcome to the forum. I've been running tinplate since before it became popular to use carpet. I used carpet for the past forty-years. Remember this, "Tinplate Started It All".

Welcome Zackesch, looking forward to seeing your layout down the road. You'll find answers to all your questions along the way from the members of this forum. It's a great group, now greater by 1.

Emile

It sounds like you have already done some research so just a couple of more thoughts on command control here. Have you considered the MTH Railking or RailKing Imperial (more detailed, but still smaller than scale) lines? Their PS3 versions are both DCS and DCC capable. They are in the ball park price wise with HO DCC equipped engines. They also run on smaller diameter curves and take up a little less space. You could also run these with your NCE system.

Lion Chief and Lion Chief Plus are also within this price range, but they are a different device requiring a separate remote for each specific type of engine. Some of their good points would be lower cost, extra remotes for multiple kids or adult visitors, they run well, will still run on DCS or Legacy/TMCC layouts along with the DCS or Legacy/TMCC engines and they are also smaller requiring smaller diameter curves and less space. They can not be run with the Legacy/TMCC or DCS remotes with the exception being LC+ running in conventional mode.

I don't know what it costs to convert an O gauge engine to DCC with sound, but you can also convert them to MTH PS2 (if you can still get the PS2 kits?) or PS3 for I think around $200 (maybe less) if you do the conversion yourself (PS2 & PS3 conversions include sound). The PS2 upgrade kits were around $180 ($150 if you joined the MTH Rail Road club at around $25 per year).

There are also TMCC conversion parts available from ERR. I am not very familiar with these, but I think you can get them with or without sound? I believe the conversion to TMCC with sound would be similar in price to the DCS conversion kits. It sounds like you are familiar with the DCC conversions so I would think you could do the DCS or TMCC conversions as well. There are some very capable folks here that could help if you had any problems.

Personally, I like your idea of converting to DCC using the NCE decoders (no conversion needed with the PS3 engines). I find DCC interesting and have been wanting to add an NCE system to my layout. It would be a future project as I just got back in the hobby about 4 years ago and getting started does take a toll on the old budget. I have several MTH PS3 engines that I could use for a loop of DCC operated track, while keeping my current DCS and Legacy systems in operation.

I also think most engines today use the DC can motors. Not sure how far you would have to go back to get an AC motor? I would not worry so much about keeping today's modern O gauge engines authentic. I think the investment days are behind us (if that was the reason for authenticity here?). I would get what you like and do as you like with it and enjoy it as you like. I don't think it will matter much as far as value if you ever want to sell it. If it has value when you sell it great, if not you got to enjoy what you liked while you had it. However, some of the older and more rare Lionel collector items (pre-war & post-war) may be a different story and may very well be better off left as they are?

Zack,

May I suggest you visit this link.  

https://ogrforum.com/f...ns-and-layout-design

You may also want to post your topic there.

Welcome to the Forum!!  Glad to have you aboard!

Alan

One can enjoy this hobby without having to have a boat load of money...sounds like the O.P. already has that figured out..

Alan

Hi Zackesch, and welcome,

I'm posting a vid one of my favorite "shelf layouts" in 0-gauge by Mario Brienza. I found this on his youtube channel. Only 6x12 but impressive, may give you an idea or two? He also models H.O. and Z scale layouts, worth a look.....

Welcome aboard Zackesch. A lot of info is available on the various sub-forums. Ask a lot of questions; read a lot of posts; read a lot of magazines and you'll do fine.

Welcome aboard Zackesch!

Penn, I have seen that video before, but I did not realize it was a shelf style layout.Very nice.

RTR12, Good to know about the MTH PS3 locos. I didnt know that they followed NMRA standards for DCC, just thought they used DCS and DCC interchangeably. When it comes to loco and rolling stock size, i will run what tickles my fancy. At the moment the majority of my rolling stock is 0-27, but I do own two MTH true scale freight cars and man, are they nice. Just a touch bigger then I am use to with HO .

Cost to convert O scale to DCC is about 50-60 with a straight decoder and about 200-220 for a sound decoder. I'll keep that idea on the back burner. More then likely ill do the KISS method and not re-engineer what has already been done. After all, it is fun to use the transformers and not needing to worry about the smoke machines pulling too much amperage and smoking my decoder. 

The biggest reason to keep it AC is if I decide to join an O scale club in the future. http://www.milw-lrrc.com/ It will be a while before I look at that due to the fact I am president of my local HO club and im in my first year of my term. We will be completely rebuilding our current layout and creating a modular system using FREEMO standards.

As you stated in your last statement, O scale to me is a run what you like scale. Way too much in HO I find myself constantly flipping from i want to model this, wait this is what I'll do... I liked this idea... That vicious cycle, which gets worse when I try to keep to an era...HA what a joke. Pretty much all my HO rolling stock is late 70s forward, with the majority being from the 90s up to current. I tried keeping to my CN GP38-2 and GP40-2 units, but I saw a GBW HH660 with QSI sound... I herd its cry at the LHS and I adopted it . The following week I picked up its transfer caboose.  ANYWAY... O scale to me is a free for all, run what you like as I do not care about prototype or era, but what ever I feel like. I am liking the idea of keeping it Lionelville. When kids come into the picture, there will be a Legonel subdivision "lego + lionel". So, no prototype for me in O.

Thank you everyone for such a warming welcome. I can tell already that joining this form was the right thing to do.

Welcome

     To the OGR Forum & O Gauge Model Railroading.

Gary

• Cheers from The 

O gauge 3 rail does not follow the NMRA all that much like you mention.

2 rail O scale follows the NMRA more then three rail O gauge does. 3 rail O scale may follow NMRA more then 3 rail O gauge.

Lee Fritz

I don't think the MTH DCC functions are quite as full featured as you might get with some of the HO decoders? Go to the MTH website and look at their latest 2015 v2 catalog. They explain their DCC capabilities at the beginning of the catalog in the first few pages. The different lines are also explained as to size and features in each of the Railking lines. Premier is all scale and their top of the line stuff. Lots of good info in both the MTH and Lionel catalogs.

The bare DCC conversion sounds much cheaper, but adding sound makes the conversions very comparable in price to the PS2/PS3 upgrades. The ERR TMCC conversions may be more comparable to DCC in all around costs, if they are available with no sound that is. As I said though, I am not very familiar with the ERR devices. I need to do some homework there.

The MTH PS3 Premier engines have a switch to select either DCS or DCC so it sounds like an easy switch back and forth. Railking PS3's have a jumper or something inside that has to be changed so the shell has to come off to switch them, but a switch could be added like the Premier engines to make things easier. Please remember this is coming from someone that has never tried it switching one (no DCC system yet), so there may be a bit more to it than what I have described here? More homework needed for me in this department as well. I am still hoping to be able to get an NCE system someday for some first hand experience.

O gauge does offer a lot in everything from toys to serious modeler items and everything in between. I'm prototypically challenged, know very little about being prototypical in anything rail road related. I just get what I like and what I think my grandson will like and he and I enjoy it. I thought this was a disadvantage at first, but after following some discussions on the accuracy of things I'm not so sure now. I might be better off not knowing? As you say, lot less to worry about.

I think another good thing about O gauge is the track selections available. I think all the track systems are good ones and it is again what you like that is important here. All the track systems available are in use by the folks here on the forum. Each system has it's own quirks, but can be made to work with the help of the folks around here. There will always be an engine or a car that has a problem somewhere though, no matter what track is used. Just have to address those as they happen.

You are right about this forum, there is a lot of good people here that are willing to help with what ever they can. You did come to the right place!

Good Luck

Zach..WELCOME !!

Hi and welcome to the BEST toy/model train forum on the Web.

There are hundreds of people here who will give you all the information you need, and more.

Just keep looking around and asking questions.  I think you idea of the carpet is great as I did a carpeted table for my last layout.

Have fun and enjoy your "O" gauge trains.

Welcome

You might want to save any RC stuff that might be kicking about. Some folks use that radio base for controls, engines and accessories.

Note: You can usually run the AC trains on DC track too. (never try dc trains on ac track)

Carpet- Quiet, good idea.

Conventional- Simple.

Design- Search and or post for help. Have some basic guiding thoughts listed, along with, area, curve size/brand, power, and other equipment. You'll have ideas up to your ears quick.

 I'm sort of lost with what you mean by modular. Simple? Automatic? Grouped "commands" all triggered by one switch?(can done with switches & relays vs Digital).

  Not much you can't do really. Electrical is a puzzle map. Know your destination, then you get as close as you can.

Welcome to the Forum, here, Zach.  I, too, have a carpet layout and have had for about 11 years.  Can run 7 trains at once without crashes (usually) which is what I like.  I love the wiring aspect, but this hobby is so great as there are so many divisions, including making and seeing train friends over time-which is the best.

Enjoy the hobby and you and your wife will have a blast!

Last night I stumbled on examples of people using felt in place of carpet. Is there any real benefit from one to the other? What I am concerned about is the long term wear and tear and the ability to keep it clean. 

With either carpet or felt you need to be careful about pieces of the fabric coming loose and getting into the gear area and causing problems. 

Carpet might work best under Fastrack or Realtrax for noise issues.

Also be careful if you use a green mat with loose grass(Life Like Company used to make these), if the little pieces can come loose it may cause some traction or gear problems depending where it gets into.

Lee Fritz

Hi Zackesch,

30" wide provides plenty of room for switch operations or 2 mains with scenery. Like the photo example that you posted.

FasTrack has the 6-12060 or the 1 3/8" to easily create isolated sections for center rail block control. You only have to switch the center rail on\off. The outside rails or common can always stay connected. (isolating one of those rails is used for triggering accessories, train detection to relays and such) Most just use a simple toggle switch.

Why don't you build some FreeMo or FasTrack modules for your layout? Just a thought.

Here is the FasTrack standards for the system.

I have also attached the FasTrack lengths reference to assist in your layout design.

Welcome aboard to the forum and welcome to O!

Welcome to a great hobby! I came to O out of N scale much like you, and have created a layout much like you are thinking about. Before moving to our current home, I started with a loop and siding on a 3 ft by 5 ft folding table just to have fun with... After gaining a basement with a raised crawlspace, I put green indoor-outdoor carpet atop a lot of 1/2 inch thick 4 ft by 8 ft foam boards. Then I laid 027 tubular track on the carpet and hung blue banquet table-cloth around the walls to cover the insulation. I did not screw the track down but used rubber bands when needed to keep the pieces together, and used various things, including roof tiles as track ballast. With this foundation, I have been able to redesign and remake the layout whenever I wanted to do so - about five times in the past 15 years. I isolated the track into 'traditional' blocks because I still operate the layout conventionally, and set it up to accomodate two operators running separate trains.  This carpet has a tight weave and I've never had any issues with it.