New to O Scale and Upset

Are the trains you are talking about American Flyer "S" gauge or O?  There are very few shops with extensive S gauge support.  You are better off attending a train show that has S gaige support to get advice and material.

Welcome aboard. I am sorry to hear you have been hit with a few opinionated people.

It seems this hobby does have quite a few gruff individuals, and when they are working at a hobby shop... it seems to scare a few people off. 

No question is dumb here, fire away, post pictures for clarity and get those trains running!

BTW just don't mention Lash-up and your good...

Chuck, I under stand that "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" is pseudo-Latin for "When all else fails, play dead". What is the Moritatum?

Welcome. You will also get varying opinions on this forum with die hard fans of different manufacturers and scales etc.

Before you start to buy anything, try to meet with a club or individual in your area so you can get a better hands on feel of what is going on. Just the jargon alone gets confusing. Take your time. There is no big rush. Do not be afraid to ask questions here. You are not the first to ask them and you will not be the last.

And remember, it is your railroad. You have to like it so enjoy what you do.

Good luck.

Hello and welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about your initial experiences.

I too am in MD and would be willing to answer questions, email in my profile.

There are also a few great clubs in MD. The Maryland O-Gaugers lists a number of hobby shops on their web site:

https://sites.google.com/site/mdogaugers/ 

  I suspect you will get a warm welcome at any of those shops.

Also the National Capital Trackers have a number of MD shows. 

http://trackers2010.org/

But, in joining this forum, I think you have found a premier place for O Gauge advice.

You will get some brand opinions here but in between some good advice as well.

A train set is always a good way to start but avoid the lowest priced ones and start  with something nice.

Before you abandon S to jump to O you may want to take a hard look at what's available and see if it is a better fit in terms of space or operating characteristics.   I literally inherited O gauge trains from my great grandfather by way of my Dad.  I've built layouts in HO and N but gave those up mainly because of eyesight and operational issues.  S gauge is a good compromise in terms of space required vrs operating issues.  There isn't as much available as the other scales but most of it's pretty good stuff.  Less crap.

Re the "pig" Latin version of the Possum Lodge motto I changed the "tense" of the word to make it closer to real latin.  I've done a few real translations and they are a) much longer, and b) not as funny.

e.g.

Cum omnibus deficit, esse simulas mortuis

Wilson, welcome to the Forum. One thing for sure, you will get good information here from very reliable train enthusiasts. HELP is the operative word on the Forum.

Send me, via e-mail, the names of the dealers you visited.

I am also in Maryland...my area (Montgomery County) has some wonderful stores - Engine House Hobbies and Ken, the owner, (www.enginehousehobbies.net) and Catoctin Mountain Trains (Frederick County) with Paul and Marcia Johnson at the helm (www.cmtrains.com). Both would be more than happy to help you in O and understanding of the products out there and would NEVER make you feel stupid or not up to speed. Both have no S and are primarily O Gauge stores. 

Also, consider coming by a National Capital Tracker display. 

I can imagine why dealers don't like questions about S gauge, they are in business to sell new items, usually. Personally, I like both American Flyer and Lionel, as well as Marx, Flyer has superbly engineered steam locos, up to and beyond Lionel postwar standards. The main area of concern with PW Flyer is the reverse unit, with good servicing it can work as reliably as Lionel's. And of all else fails, the Dallee reverse unit, of the 4 amp variety was originally developed by American Flyer hobbyists.

The title says new to O scale. I assumed the set he got was Flyer O gaude

He has an S gauge Flyer set but was/is interested in O.

If you are NEW, why did you jump into 3 rail?  There are 2 rail O Scale trains too!

Regards,

Ed

No need to be nervous about it; just for informational purposes and you'll not be involved or connected in any way.

My e-mail address is editor (followed by "at" symbol) ogaugerr.com

My e-mail address is listed in the right-hand column on the profile page, as are e-mail addresses for anyone else who cares to have an e-mail address listed.

I, too, initially assumed you were interested in S scale before you qualified that in a subsequent post.  If S was your interest you likely would have a hard time finding a local dealer, with some exceptions, who would be qualified to give much help.

As with every thing, there are a lot of princes out there and some old grouches.  There are more HO outlets than O.  I just like O.  Most of the advice you will get on this forum comes from those with a lot more experience than I have.  But, here is my two cents:

Start with the best transformer you can afford.  It will be adequate as your layout grows. Track is all over the place.  Look at all the options, of which there are many.  But, start with the largest diameter curves as you space will allow.  You can always add smaller diameter inside of that, if you like.  As for locomotives, just buy the one  you like and practice with it for awhile.  You will make mistakes, so use the forum and have fun.

can i ask... were the hobby stores you visited specifically train hobby stores, or were they more of a general hobby store supporting r/c planes & cars, plastic model kits, etc. as well?

Wilson Hello and welcome to the forum. I know how you feel when I got involved I got the same treatment from all the Chicago  land train shops. So I decided to go on the Web and visit Ebay  and then later I found  Tranz.com   and their are many O gauge  dealers out their that have good deals  You may just need to look for them. And now after  5-6 years of collecting  and going thru 3 major surgerys  I am back and building a somewhat large Layout. so you just need to stick with it   and just keep reading on this forum  their is plenty of great information  I wish you the best.   Scot

Wilson:

Unfortunately there are stores like those you visited in almost every city so you are not alone. There are also some great stores with excellent people who are more than willing to help.

Suggestion - before buying any trains, track, accessories etc spend some money on a few books so you can get up to speed. A few examples:

Trackwork for Toy Trains by Peter Riddle (discusses the major brands of O scale track on the market). I am sure there are HO and S scale versions out there.

Wiring Your Toy train Layout by Peter Riddle (a good primer for wiring on old and new track)

Track Planning for Realistic Operation by John Armstrong (Its HO but chock full of great ideas for planning how your railroad will function)

There is also a book on Command Control that discusses MTH's DCS system and Lionel's TMCC/Legacy system which will bring you up to speed on the new technology. I can't remember the author but I am sure other forum members can supply the info along with other recommendations for books to read. In addition visit both manufacturers web sites for info. You can also do a search on Youtube for DCS or TMCC/Legacy to see MTH and Lionel videos on their systems.

If anyone knows of a book that discusses pros and cons of HO vs S vs O scale please let us know.

Joe

There are new items in S-Gauge.  Lionel has lots of American Flyer stuff in their new catalog.  The last time I checked, S-Helper Service had cars and track.  You can even get Legacy engines in S-Gauge and a Polar Express in on deck for next year.

That being said, it is inexcusable to be rude to a customer.

Hi, Wilson, and welcome aboard.

I, too, am in Maryland. Depending on where you are, there are some good shops, and some others that are just there to sell. I agree with SJC on the 2 shops he mentioned, especially Contoctin Mountain Trains in Thurmont. Another good shop is in southern Maryland, in Leonardtown, Sidetrack Hobbies. Al and Libby will treat you right.

The folks here will help you with most of your questions. A few smart arses will chime in occaisionally and can try to make you feel intimidated. Just ignore them. The folks here are a good source of knowlege.

Drop me a line @ yardmaster@gmail.com and let me know where abouts in the state you are. We have a small group of about a dozen in our club. We're scattered over a good part of the state, someone is problably in your area, and willing to help spread what accumulated info we have. 

Don't rule out Large Scale trains either!

To the best of my knowledge, there are no such books, and I don't recall any that have ever been published that approach it in a "vs" perspective.  I wrote and published a "Model Railroad Resources" book some years ago that devoted separate chapters to each of the popular scales from Z through Large Scale, but it covered each based on the particular scale's merits and limitations.  Long out of print and, by now, significantly outdated.

Wilson, First off, Welcome to the madhouse.

We do have a lot of opinions but lots of solid good advise as well.

I'm partial to MTH product but Lionel, Atlas, Weaver, and esp. 3rd Rail Sunset make nice equipment too.

HO - Fit twice as much in a given area BUT must conform to more realistic curves than O. You end up with more scenery per given track area. Can derail on a hair.

Command control now coming built in in some offerings. DCC is standard across the makers but limited in comparison to Lionel's Legacy or MTH's DCS

O - Bigger, Heavier, More Detailed and now with incredible sound built in. Many now come with Command Control built in as well. Command Control only works with a Given Mfg. or associated stuff. Both can work together on a layout. Easier to get the wheels on the rails and keep them there. Large flanges on most product limit derailing but it does happen. Limited Offerings compared to HO but a wonderland compared to 20 years ago.

S - Somewhere in between HO and O, Limited equipment offerings compared to O.

  I'm not knowledgable in S.

And Come on Ed, He probably never saw any 2 rail O!

Wilson

I think you will be happy going with the O gauge 3 rail.

One of the first things to consider is what operating system to go with Convention [control from the transformer] or command control [DCS, TMCC, LEGACY].

This will help decide which locomotive manufacture to purchase.

Lots of info can be found on this forum to help decide.

Ask lots of questions.

I prefer conventional control using MTH Z-1000 remote.

If you choose DCS for example you can buy a less expensive starter set, and try it out.

Maybe a test loop of track would come in handy for evaluation purposes.

One think to consider are all the great values on the secondary market.

Take a look at the SALE Forum.

 Have fun with the hobby.

The guys on the OGR forum can be helpful to you.  We have some great LHS in the country but also have some that are not so great.  Your part of the country has some great shops and the area is loaded with very knowledgeable train guys/gals.  I feel the OGR forum and the OGR staff have done more for the hobby than anyone else.  Remember, a LHS will always work hard to sell what he has in stock.  If the owner tells you he is a certified Lionel or MTH repair person, ask to see proof.  I know of one shop in my state where the so called repair guy flunked the MTH school and the owner lies about the person being certified. 

If you buy anything new or used from a LHS, you will want to know how great the support is for the product you buy.

Welcome aboard Wilson. I don't have words of wisdom but just seeing the response you are getting and the people who are responding to you in 2 hours.. You are in good hands.

Search the forum;

Check out the sponsors sites;

ask questions

subscribe to O-Gauge magazine  even if it is just for the ads and information.

Good luck and keep us posted..

Welcome. Read as much as you can. There are a lot of great books out there that will help you. I'm on my 3rd. layout since 2005 because I didn't read enough & many things changed in the 40 years I was away.

I have found that a lot of so-called hobby shops have little in O 3 rail (and NOTHING in O 2 rail).  Many are stocked in HO and N, and some LGB, others...no.  In this area

the surviving shop is big on R/C cars and has little in O, with a lot of unused, empty

floor space.  Not sure HO is even well covered.  HO centered shops may have been what you had the bad luck to walk into.  With the conversion of Chicagoland from emphasis on 2 rail to 3 rail, the only shop that was centered on O SCALE in the midwest is on the north side of Detroit, that I am aware of.  The few and far between

O scale shows are the only place you can see much or even any of it.  I was always

surprised almost none of it ever seemed to show up at the large Wheaton show outside

Chicago, in spite of the fact the very good March Meet O scale show is held a short

distance away (once a year!).   I need a 3 foot length of Scaletrak, and the closest shop that may have it is 60+ miles away.  Detroit is a "fur piece".  Dunno if I'd have to go to Detroit for a section of 2 rail O scale track, and I would not know where else to go for one.  I'd like to know of a "Snap-Track" system of quick and ready track for

On3.  No ready to run sets in that, I don't think.  If you are looking for something you can set up and run, best take the advice above and visit those shops cited that

are oriented to your interest.

There are companies that make new O Gauge items and companies that make new S Scale items.

MTH has now started to produce the Showcase Line from Helper-S.

American Models will start making more new S Scale items soon.

There is Des Plaines Hobbies that now has a series of S Scale rolling stock and decals.

Andrew

Hi Wilson and welcome on board.  Where in MD do you live?  I'm in Baltimore so don't be afraid to shoot me an email with any questions you may have.  This forum is without a doubt the best place to be.  The folks here are great and their wealth of knowledge is mind boggling.  You've already received some excellent advice.  If S gauge appeals to you great.  I think it's great and without all the compatible problems we experience with 3 rail.  If you want to talk with some savy folk about S gauge AF trains you should make plans to visit the Great Scale train show at Timonium in Oct.  Here's a link to their site http://www.gsmts.com/.  Good luck and enjoy your trains.

I too felt the same way when I went into my first couple of storefronts.  One store didn't have any O gauge engines.. They had 3 Lionel starter systems... The 2nd store only had HO a recurring them here in central Florida....Another miss named itself as Hobby Lobby

but really was a ladies craft/nick nack store and had 2 or 3 ho beginner sets. I was sorely disappointed.

Wilson: S is a nice size; Lionel makes some very nice things there, and MTH is entering the field, also - though the old operating systems (Lionel's and MTH's) incompatibility

will unfortunately be carried over into S. 

As far as your treatment at these shops is concerned, let me just say that after 25

active years in the O-gauge/hi-rail hobby, I am continuing to find fewer and fewer

individuals who understand manners, and I do think that the Grumpy Old Men (of all ages) in this hobby now outnumber the decent-acting members. Just like this country as a whole, so, no surprise.

But, don't let the b******s get you down. For some individuals, this 3-rail O interest has turned into some sort of Ideology (always a bad thing). Too much time in the basement.

For me, it's just Model Railroading using a particular format. It's not personal.

Wilson....welcome to the forum!!  There is no better place than here for getting help with just about anything you need.  This is the "go to" place!

Alan

You could also take some Marx stuff and put AF trucks/couplers on them.

K-Line did make some S stuff:  mew "Marx" items with AF trucks/couplers before they folded.

My advise would be to stay faithful to what you stated in your initial post (quoted here) and to go with O gauge.  Nothing wrong with S, but there's is certainly nowhere near the variety of items available in S that you'll find in O...not even close by any measure, and not apt to be in the future.

Stick with O.  You won't be sorry.