Latest Release Atlas CZ cars and F units question

marker:

 

You are not the only one who has noticed the difference in exterior finishes of the CZ cars. I guess that this may not bother everyone as on a  prototypical basis there were differences, but if it were me, it would bother the heck out of me. Sure glad I opted to find a K-Line set.

Hmmm,

 

But, no one seems to have noticed that the earlier runs had incorrect 41-CD trucks and the current run has even more incorrect 41-CS trucks.  Should be 41-ND on all CZ cars.

 

 

The first run of these cars has been out a couple of years now and the truck prototype is just coming up now. The color is a different issue as this would be quite evident in a complete train, it will be interesting to hear what Atlas response is. I do not believe the MR magazine review of the first car released by Atlas had a truck issue.

But, no one seems to have noticed that the earlier runs had incorrect 41-CD trucks and the current run has even more incorrect 41-CS trucks.  Should be 41-ND on all CZ cars.

Thanks bringing that up, that's very interesting.  I never compared the Atlas cars to the prototype, nor did I compare the trucks to each other.  I only looked at the rollers because of the flickering.  Not that I didn't care, but I trusted Atlas.  On a product that was introduced with so much fan fare, I'm surprised.

 

I've never seen the 2nd run of the domes and 10-6 sleepers.  Did the stainless paint match the 1st run, the last run, or is it unique to 2nd run?  Were the windows correct?  Some of the pictures indicate they might have been.

 

I wonder what the next run will bring. 

 

All my Atlas O CZ cars (4 from the first release and 2 from the second) appear to have the same trucks, but then I’m no expert. Unfortunately, I don’t have to be an expert to see that the finishes are completely different, and to me that serious mismatch is unacceptable. Even the earlier cars don’t have any of the better stainless steel finishes that today’s technology affords, but at least they have a shine to them. The later cars have absolutely no luster at all and look more like galvanized metal or gray plastic than stainless steel. As far as I’m concerned, despite the beautiful detailing of these long delayed and problem riddled cars, they are pretty much a disappointment to many of us who patiently awaited their arrival and honored our commitments to purchase them. Atlas owed its customer base better. I doubt that I’ll finish the train.

The first run cars had the correct disk brakes.  The last run had incorrect clasp brakes.  All CZ cars had disk brakes.

WOW, I've got to agree with OS3R above. The finish should have been matched. After all the hype and all the delays, these cars look awful together. 

 

Crank

Have not bought the diner and sleeper yet, can somebody post a comparison picture?

 

I am out of town currently... should be back later tonight to post a comparison photo. 

 

But as I recall, the dining car I purchased -- Silver Banquet -- did NOT seem to have the same deep "silver" look to it that the previous CZ cars.  The difference that jumped out at me most (aside from the slight color difference) was the fact that the fluted sides appeared LESS detailed/visible on the newer dining car as compared to the earlier cars. 

 

I haven't removed mine from their boxes yet, so that may be why I didn't object TOO much to the discrepancy.  It might not even be THAT noticeable in a photograph depending on lighting conditions.  However, there's definitely something different about the latest production run.

 

Keep in mind... If I recall correctly from October 2013 York, I'm pretty certain that the newer cars are being produced by a completely different factory than the earlier cars.  Although not a satisfactory answer, that may "explain" the discrepancy(s) that we're noticing.

 

As for CZ enthusiasts choosing to not complete the train because of this?  WOW!  I'm not so sure that's a good move.  I'm definitely in for the observation car, which would complete my train.  And if Atlas-O produces a baggage car, I'll likely add that to the set as well.

 

Frankly, I'd rather Atlas-O complete the train with their planned additional cars rather than do what 3rd Rail GGD has done to some of us who purchased coaches (NP, CN, GN to name a few road-names) and now has kept us all in limbo with no further published plans to finish those trains.  They "talked" about finish sets, but I haven't seen a firm plan in place to produce the remaining cars to complete the train.  As a result, I won't purchase another 3rd rail / GGD product, period.  They're off my radar screen completely. 

 

David

I realize that hindsight is always 20:20, but as a stroke of "lack of funds" at the time, I elected to NOT order ANY of the Atlas CZ cars. I didn't know it would take this many years to own a complete train set. Thus, had I known THAT, I would have started purchasing the cars. Looking back, I guess I'm now glad I didn't, especially since all the cars apparently don't match. THAT is a darned shame!  Guess I'll  just continue to operate my GGD heavyweight Burlington train. 

The Golden Gate Depot "finish sets" are still advertised on their website and still listed on their reservations page.  I'm waiting/hoping for the N&W finish set.  I have four coaches and a couple sleepers to at least make a small train if the finish set never happens.  I'm planning to pair them up with a Legacy N&W J.

 

On the CZ set the color variations don't bother me enough to give up on the set.  But these have taken so long to be available I'm just buying a few of the cars to create a 'business train' for my railroad.

Has anybody talked to Atlas about this issue and if so what is there response if any?

 But even with this, we're seeing that the entire train may not be produced to a matching finish/color -- most likely due to the volatility of overseas labor force and closing of factories over the course of time

 

I pretty sure they switched contractors.

I have 9 of the CB&Q and WP CARS and so far they match as far as the color goes. No other problems either. I am just waiting for the observation Now.

Yes, that's what we were told at York last year.  But the circumstances surrounding the "change of contractors" remains a bit cloudy.  I don't think Atlas-O just decided, "Hey, let's switch contractors."  Rather I think they were FORCED to switch contractors, because the former factory either closed outright or was purchased by another Chinese entity which made the former factory's production resource's unavailable to Atlas.  Either way, Atlas-O essentially "lost" their overseas supplier for awhile (from what I understand)... which accounted for the HUGE drought of Atlas-O product coming into the States for what seemed like almost two years (2011/2012).   

 

After all, let's not forget that Atlas-O first announced the CZ back on July 2, 2009.  So if we see the observation car this Summer, we'll be coming up on the 5-year anniversary of the train's announcement.     And technically, that won't complete the entire project, since there's at least the baggage car as well an another more esoteric coach, after which they'll be able to say they produced the "entire" train.  But when all is said and done, it'll likely exceed a 5-year period to accomplish the whole project. 

 

The only good news out of all this would be the fact that Atlas-O now has the tooling it needs to re-run another passenger train should they decide to "look the other way" a bit and produce a Daylight, Empire Builder, or Northern Pacific passenger train -- just using existing tooling with a different paint scheme -- which may not be 100% prototypical for rivet-counters .  But then again, who wants to wait another 5+ years for new passenger train to be produced one-car-at-a-time? 

 

David

BTW, i just noticed this morning a set of Atlas-O CZ cars listed over on the for-sale forum, and the images included in the listing are the images directly from the Atlas-O website.  Ironically, the way they're posted in the thread, you'll be able to see EXACTLY the subtle color difference being discussed here.  You'd probably never notice the difference looking at individual cars at different times -- only when viewing them side by side together.  Very subtle, but it's there.

 

David

David:

 

The initial announcement for these Atlas cars was prior to the date you listed at the TCA Museum manufacturer presentations. Still over five years.

Good point.  I was using the "official" announcement dates on the Atlas-o website.  They did something similar with the latest domed observation car as well.  Gave folks a preview announcement during October 2013 York.  Dealers were even taking pre-orders, but it wasn't until Jan 2014 that Atlas-O officially announced them on their website.

David

A little puzzled here.  Are you saying that even if GGD does not get enough reservations to profitably produce something, they should go ahead and produce anyway to keep their good will in the hobby?

A bit off topic, but I would like to make sure our project is not misunderstood.

 

Regarding the Finish Sets: We plan on making a finish set in UP, take pictures and hopefully get the reservations we need to go into production. Yes, we need enough reservations to pay for a project. These projects cost $120,000, so you can't keep making models that you can't sell... It's a business not a hobby.

 

Since the Finish Set is based on 3 cars from the B&O Columbian B set and 1 sleeper from the 1938 Broadway, we now have the cars to show you what they look like. 

 

If we don't get enough orders for any particular road, we will have to skip them on this go around, so if you want a particular road, make a reservation...

 

Now back to the show...

 

Scott Mann

No... Not what I'm saying at all.  But what I AM saying is that NO importer should produce cars for a train "one-at-a-time", and then decide to table production. The results are simply too unpredictable, and the consumer can be left in the barrel with unfinished goods.    

 

That's why I'm sending a message to ALL importers that I won't spend a penny on any more items that are produced that way... the Atlas-O CZ being the lone exception, since  I have too much invested in that train already, and we're hopefully just a few months away from delivery of the domed observation car.  Beyond that, importers can promise all they want... But if I see cars being offered piece-meal again, I won't even give them a second look.

 

 

We get that Scott.  Then my suggestion is to never offer models piece-meal again, if you can't commit to finishing an entire train.  Measure interest by offering the complete train (as you have with the upcoming El Capitan and a few others).  If buyers don't commit to the whole enchilada, then don't offer a bunch of road-names in a certain style car, and then decide to hold off further production of specific road-names individually unless there's further interest.  That is a flawed strategy from the get-go.

 

I got burnt after purchasing 3 NP coaches, and I was also planning to purchase a few coaches in the GN livery -- thinking I'd complete both trains with the "finish sets".  Never did I think we'd be in such limbo regarding these trains.  So I held off purchasing GN coaches altogether (i.e., those that are currently available), and I've taken my name off a dealer's list for both NP and GN finish sets.  And if I could, I'd send the 3 NP coaches I purchased back for a refund.  I'm just thankful I saw the writing on the wall in time and didn't purchase more coaches.    

 

Sorry to go off topic, but I think it's an important enough issue that toy train enthusiasts understand the likely pitfalls of purchasing trains one car at a time -- whether it be because individual items may not match appropriately over time or because a project may never be deemed "profitable enough" to see completion.  

 

That's my story... And I'm stickin' to it!  

 

David

Concerning the rollers.  I found the problem.  Relative to other 3 rail equipment I own, the rollers on the CZ cars do not drop down as much.  I don't know if the copper rollers have any affect on the flickering.  I also found some older MTH passenger cars with copper rollers, so it's not uncommon.  

 

The fix was to make a spacer by cutting some sheet styrene which lowers the roller enough to insure roller contact with the 3rd rail.  

 

I purchased a copy of the Burlington Bulletin No 42 regarding the Exposition Flyer, a great read.  The BRHS  is a first class operation with some very fine, well produced publications.