No More Derailments

Slowing down really helps.

Another derailment reducer that many of you folks know about, is to put the heaviest train cars in the front, and lightest cars in the rear, of the train.

Here's another derailment reducer: the artful and careful use of shims to keep the track as even as possible. This may be particular true for Postwar tubular track layouts.

thanks for the tips especially heavier cars out front.

@scottyhubcaps posted:

thanks for the tips especially heavier cars out front.

You're welcome, Scotty.

Here's another derailment eliminator, which I have not done: have wide radius curves.

Most of mine are 031.

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

You're welcome, Scotty.

Here's another derailment eliminator, which I have not done: have wide radius curves.

Most of mine are 031.

So 031 curves are working for you Arnold......as long as slower speeds are maintained.   That is a good derailment eliminator tip.

ALSO ....  longer 6 axle diesels like a Railking dash 8 do have some issues if the track isn't pretty even on 031 curves.

I run  Z1000s/  DCS / TIU / hand held remote with elevations over bridges and about a dozen 031 curves mixed with 054s , 072s and 084s.         I can run up to 50 or so SMPH even with my FEF , Allegheny and Challengers without issue.   

                                    BUT................

I have to keep back to back LH and RH 031 switches near perfectly even for some of my medium size steamers to travel through without getting derailed.

So far I have had zero derailments on my partial-layout-under-construction. I think you have listed some of the best practices for avoiding them!

My anti-derailment tip - watch your trains. Always watch your trains! Never know when a coupler is going to spontaneously pop open, and the loco goes around to meet the caboose. Ugh. You don’t want to hear that crunch.

I have had two major derailments since my layout was built in 1998, and in both a locomotive hit the concrete floor. The common elements to both events were: I left a tool on the tracks that did not short the circuit, but obstructed it; the locomotive hit the tool and flew off a 40-some inch table; each locomotive basically landed squarely on its wheels and suffered no major damage (!);  and I had been drinking white wine while I was operating. Solution: I no longer "drink and drive".

The locomotives were my MPC - era Great Northern steam 4-8-4, and a Hornby clockwork tank engine that dates to the late 1920s.

@Mark V. Spadaro posted:

My anti-derailment tip - watch your trains. Always watch your trains! Never know when a coupler is going to spontaneously pop open, and the loco goes around to meet the caboose. Ugh. You don’t want to hear that crunch.

Good one Mark.   I'd tell you why I know this but you probably already know how I figured this out. 

@jay jay posted:

I have had two major derailments since my layout was built in 1998, and in both a locomotive hit the concrete floor. The common elements to both events were: I left a tool on the tracks that did not short the circuit, but obstructed it; the locomotive hit the tool and flew off a 40-some inch table; each locomotive basically landed squarely on its wheels and suffered no major damage (!);  and I had been drinking white wine while I was operating. Solution: I no longer "drink and drive".

The locomotives were my MPC - era Great Northern steam 4-8-4, and a Hornby clockwork tank engine that dates to the late 1920s.

Yep ......tools on the track John.  Another idea to watch out for.

I'll agree with you on the no drinking and driving.    Totally sober , no drink and still left the tools on the track. 

As your experience grows, derailments go down.   Good track assembly practices help.  The biggest problem area is the switches.  Make sure they are in good shape and ajusted properly.  Avoid back to back switches. Even a short section between switches helps.  Proper car order or even weighting the cars.  I have a few boxes of wheel weights for this.  You can disquize weights in the loads.   Learning to test run your cars to see if there are coupler release problems.   I do this on every new-to-me item and fix the problems.    Check the wheel spacing.   I found one a couple of days ago where the "rigid" mounted wheel set had a loose floating wheel.  It kept jumping at the switch.    I don't find speed itself a problem as long as you don't fall off the track in the corners.   Jolts with big speed changes is a derailment problem.   The 5th rail pickup shoes need to be in good shape.  Those I have broken off already had problems with seating correctly.

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

You're welcome, Scotty.

Here's another derailment eliminator, which I have not done: have wide radius curves.

Most of mine are 031.

the larger the curve the less chance of a problem

@Mark V. Spadaro posted:

My anti-derailment tip - watch your trains. Always watch your trains! Never know when a coupler is going to spontaneously pop open, and the loco goes around to meet the caboose. Ugh. You don’t want to hear that crunch.

Great tip, Mark.  I'm always watching.  I've had a coupler pop open and, with non cruise locomotives, the engine will really take off.  I always keep the remote in my hand in case I have to slam on the brakes.

Hang in there Arnold. They will come.

@jay jay posted:

and I had been drinking white wine while I was operating. Solution: I no longer "drink and drive".

Putting on the Grateful Dead's Casey Jones on the HiFi and running at full throttle is not a good way to avoid derailments.

When entering a switch from a curve a short piece of straight track can help prevent the wheels from jumping the rails.

John

Zero derailments is not an achievable objective if you have 31 remote operated switches, with no indication of which direction they are positioned.  Operator error and memory are my major cause of derailments, in other words they are my fault as the major engineer.  If I just loop three trains, derailments are very rare.

Charlie

I've had very few derailments on my medium size layout over the past 11 years, with all Fastrack and 036 curves. All track connections are tight with no gaps between the rails and I simply keep the locomotives and rolling stock wheels and axles clean and lubricated.

Below is a fast-run video clip. But the trains are not usually run that fast.

@Mark V. Spadaro posted:

My anti-derailment tip - watch your trains. Always watch your trains! Never know when a coupler is going to spontaneously pop open, and the loco goes around to meet the caboose. Ugh. You don’t want to hear that crunch.

Excellent tip, Mark, thanks for sharing it.

@jay jay posted:

I have had two major derailments since my layout was built in 1998, and in both a locomotive hit the concrete floor. The common elements to both events were: I left a tool on the tracks that did not short the circuit, but obstructed it; the locomotive hit the tool and flew off a 40-some inch table; each locomotive basically landed squarely on its wheels and suffered no major damage (!);  and I had been drinking white wine while I was operating. Solution: I no longer "drink and drive".

The locomotives were my MPC - era Great Northern steam 4-8-4, and a Hornby clockwork tank engine that dates to the late 1920s.

JayJay, two derailments since 1998? Are you kidding me? LOL

I've probably had at least 1,000 derailments since 1998. LOL

One of your derailments reminded me of one of mine. While backing up a train, the switch was in the wrong position, the back of the train entered a siding where there was another train, and 2 train cars derailed, fell off the table, crashed onto the concrete floor and were damaged.

So, another important tip: always keep your wits about you when running trains and never, literally or metaphorically, fall asleep at the switch. Arnold

I've found running modern train cars with Fast Angle wheels is better for avoiding derailments than running Postwar train cars.

No comment:

Arnold,

I think Norfolk Southern would be wise to offer you a job.

yes I am using 072 maybe one 080 outer loop my area is only 8'x16'

@NJCJOE posted:

Arnold,

I think Norfolk Southern would be wise to offer you a job.

But we like Arnold ?? 

John

Here is one we all missed "car/ Engine length"

@Craftech posted:

But we like Arnold ?? 

John

It might be better for him to check out Timken first anyway.

@PRRMP54 posted:

No comment:

Dave, get that vinyl hooked up and your engineer will be happier and have less derailments.

Paul

I always follow that same rule as Arnold, I run everything (including postwar) as slow as possible.

But recently I have been hit by a bunch of derailments, all from different causes.  One was a loose screw on my locomotive fell out and the front truck jumped the rails, I had a postwar passenger car with a coupler that would open over switches (and I wasn't paying attention) so I've had the locomotive come around to smash into the end of the train and others caused by traction tires that needed to be replaced.

The traction tire derailment was a new one for me, so I would add that to the list of hints, watch your traction tires for wear.

I swear sometimes it is just luck if you have them or not.

Yes, sometimes it's just plain bad luck.  Here's one from my 2019 Christmas Layout.

First, here's the scene before I had to start dismantling it.

I knew it was under the plateau somewhere so I tried limiting how much I would have to dismantle.  Here was my original effort to find it.

No, that would have been too easy to fix all of what I had to dismantle.  So where did the derailment happen? The worst possible spot of course.  Notice how much I had to dismantle to find it.  See the green hopper - that's the culprit.  There is absolutely nothing right there that should have caused it.  Of course this happened when I was hosting a 25 person party!

I've had too many of these to count.  Unexplainable.

walt

@walt rapp posted:

Yes, sometimes it's just plain bad luck.  Here's one from my 2019 Christmas Layout.

First, here's the scene before I had to start dismantling it.

I knew it was under the plateau somewhere so I tried limiting how much I would have to dismantle.  Here was my original effort to find it.

No, that would have been too easy to fix all of what I had to dismantle.  So where did the derailment happen? The worst possible spot of course.  Notice how much I had to dismantle to find it.  See the green hopper - that's the culprit.  There is absolutely nothing right there that should have caused it.  Of course this happened when I was hosting a 25 person party!

I've had too many of these to count.  Unexplainable.

walt

YOU  ARE  MY  HERO  Walt .

Unbelieveable effort on your part.

I would have grabbed a flashlight , mirror and one of those handicap grabber thingies and yanked that train out of there.   Even if it had to be pulled out piece by piece. .

@Railrunnin posted:

Dave, get that vinyl hooked up and your engineer will be happier and have less derailments.

Paul

I do have a record-spinning system, just not that equipment in the photo.

To stay on topic, I seem to have a problem with tankers:

This one was also due to a coupler separation. Oddly, those were the only two (this and the one in my other post) majors that I had while the DC Central was in "operation". The rails were lifted as I got tired of tripping over the track and breaking it; Atlas track was not made to be walked on!

Coupler separations are important to watch out for.

Sometimes a coupler will open when it shouldn't.  When that happens I wrap a narrow piece of black electrical tape around the closed coupler.

Sometimes the couplers do not line up well; one is higher than the other. When that happens I assemble the train cars so low couplers connect with other, high couplers connect with each other, and couplers with the correct or standard height connect with each other. Arnold

Dallas: I did try looking with a flashlight and could see where it was.  I did try my grabber but couldn't get to it.  Thus, tear things apart, sadly.

I did put it all back together though.

walt

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Coupler separations are important to watch out for.

Sometimes a coupler will open when it shouldn't.  When that happens I wrap a narrow piece of black electrical tape around the closed coupler.

Sometimes the couplers do not line up well; one is higher than the other. When that happens I assemble the train cars so low couplers connect with other, high couplers connect with each other, and couplers with the correct or standard height connect with each other. Arnold

A thin, 4" long electrical tie wrap can also be used, with the excess length cut off and the connector rotated to the bottom of the coupler where it can't be readily seen.   

A few years back I bought my first ever tin-plate set.  Lionel by MTH make, the Christmas train.  I set up a small circle using MTH track for the purpose of testing things (DCS).

I was surprised that the couplers could not handle the curves on the track.  I'm not sure but I think they are 36" ones.

Here are 2 images to show what happened - the couplers didn't have enough free motion.  It was like the latch (if that's the right term) on one car would push the coupler on the trailing car to the outside of the curve causing the derailment.  Lesson learned - I had to use 42" or wider.

And the cars in this set are SHORT, maybe 7" or 8"

walt

Walt Rapp: thanks for the tip on the reproduction tin plate couplers.  This past early December, I went bananas and got some tin plate in O and Standard Gauge.  The O Gauge can run on the Golden Prairie with minimum 072 curves and turnouts.  I am hoping to do Standard Gauge around the tree in 2023, so I will keep the curves as wide as fit my living room space.

Jetsafl: you say that "recently [you] have been hit by a bunch of derailments [...]  One was a loose screw on my locomotive." Most of my derailments occur because of a loose screw in my head.

Well, Drats!

I had a derailment today because one of my reliable 022s didn't fully close when the non-derailing feature was triggered, switching from curve to straight position.

I think the only solution to this problem is to keep the old reliable 022s tuned at all times, maybe periodically servicing them (maybe every 6 months) even when they all seem to be working just fine.

I don't think I'm ambitious enough to do this. LOL.

Who cares if there's a harmless derailment once in a blue moon. This is just toys!

LOL, Arnold