No S in new Catalog

No S scale in Vol. II last year either, and the 2024 "Big Book" only hints at "Still Available" for American Flyer. A physician would diagnose those words as a death rattle.

Well, that sucks.

I hate that for you S folk.

Andre

Its not a surprise that the mid year Vol. 2 is all O gauge. If there are no new S gauge engines in the next Big Book then we can dig the hole and carve the tombstone.

The Quality of  Lionel flyer engines is terrible and perhaps the dealers are not interested in ordering more flyer given they still have 2019 engines unsold with NO WARRANTY support from Lionel.

I would not be surprised to see any new product offerings from Lionel going forward leaving Amercan Models the only Viable option going forward.

SAD

Gunny

There usually no S or HO in the volume 2 catalogs. Very little traditional too. You guys are making mountains out of molehills 😀

JohnB

In the past Lionel would often announce new American Flyer products in Volume 2. Just a little checking would show that Volume 2 was just as significant as Volume 1 for S scale. The failure to include even a mention of American Flyer two years in a row and a hint of "close out" sale in the Big Book is significant. You're right about molehill. It's more like an abyss.

I've got 4 Flyer Chief Engines and love them: Polar Express Berk, C&O Berk, Milwaukee Northern and a GP 7 Reading.

All run great.  Lionel is really missing the market, but what can I say.

American Models announced a bulkhead flat car on November 3 last year that was due in "a couple of weeks." It has not arrived yet, but I'm ready to order as soon as it's available. Des Plaines Hobbies S Scale America is years late in its 53-foot Husky IV stack well articulated 3-piece car. Two of those have been in my annual "budgets" since it was announced. Scale Trains has delivered hoppers, box cars, and cabooses just as great as what S Helper Service proved (plus the addition of scale couplers and a couple of mints!). Pre-Size Model Specialties has several kits of rolling stock never before offered in S scale. All of these companies provide far superior products in both high-rail and scale that cost little more than American Flyer offerings. My hope is that they benefit from any reluctance of Lionel to continue to support 1/64th scale and that American Flyer enthusiasts turn their attention to them.  

Would love to get some cars, but prices have gone outa sight.

Francine,

I am disappointed in Lionel, they started to deliver some very nice equipment in S but, now they have left us hanging. I am sold on command control, but I will not purchase another control system. I do want to continue running my TMCC and Legacy equipment but, from now on I will be adding Blunami control to what I have or purchase, these Soundtraxx control units are reasonably priced and come with many lighting and sound options in the package. there is some work required to make these operated alongside the Legacy and the results are well worth the effort. If this is something you might be interested in look at the DCC section of the forum, for me this is my future in the hobby, I have two converted American Models diesels and will most likely try a steam engine next. There is no option for smoke, which is fine for me or a trigger for exhaust, but the exhaust can be set in time with the wheel revolutions.

Ray

Francine, have you looked at the DesPlaines Hobbies site? Their 24% off sale is this weekend. Most of the SSA hoppers are $30 and many of the SSA boxcars are $35. The S Scale America cars are the best available in my opinion.

Here is an example of the $35 SSA boxcars.

Ray, I have 3 DCC engines, but since leaving North Penn S Gaugers, have no place to run them.  I can always run my flyer chief.

Amflyer;  those are nice cars at a reasonable price, I will look into them.

Thanks everyone.

Francine,

That is the beauty of Blunami, a DCC decoder you can run from your cell phone. If you have smooth DC on your rail you need nothing else. As l mentioned I have 18v AC on my tracks, that takes a little more effort on the installation.

Ray

That's a shame if Lionel halts development and production of AMerican Flyer. Many of us g

had Gilbert Flyer as kids and have fond memories of them. I certainly did. Nothing like these nice scale models of modern times, although Gilbert Flyer constantly hammered home that Flyer was 'scale' as opposed to Lionel's 'Toys' like their compressed Alco FA's. As a kid that was impressive albeit not very accurate!  Lionel's pieces were much more robust and many of the freight cars were quite well detailed for their day. The Santa Fe and NYC F3's, SCale switchers, and FM Trainmasters were pretty good models. I doubt I could have even lifted a dual moored F3 when I was 5!

This Lionel SR Mikado is especially nice but will probably never see track time as I know of no S scale layouts around here to try it out on...

I doubt Lionel is leaving S gauge. I am concerned about the future for new S gauge Legacy engines. Rolling stock and a few FlyerChief engines will likely be made.

That Mikado is a very nice TMCC engine. The great thing is they will also operate with a conventional transformer. Even though I have a room filling Legacy layout I still have an oval of track and a transformer on my office floor so I can run a train there. It only takes a few minutes to snap together some SHS or Lionel AF FasTrack.

Tom ,

Thanks for the heads up on Des Plaines sale.

Gunny

@JohnB posted:

There usually no S or HO in the volume 2 catalogs. Very little traditional too. You guys are making mountains out of molehills 😀

JohnB

I may of been a little insensitive here so I went to the Lionel catalog page on their website where they have catalogs they have issued for the past 14 years. I usually do not pay any attention to S scale as I am not a big fan but to each his own. So out of the past 14 years there was an American Flyer catalog nine times with the longest gap of no S catalog being 2 years.

I have been a member of 4 different train clubs in the last 20+ years. Most clubs had 100+ members on their books but averaged 30-45 active members across all scales O, S, G, HO, N, Z etc. Not all the clubs had all the scales but usually they did have O, S, and HO plus one extra scale like G or N. The most S scale members that any of the four clubs had was 2, with the other two having one. At least half of the S members would only run S stuff from the 1950s or early 1960s. This leads me to conclude that:

        There is not enough demand for S scale for Lionel to issue a yearly catalog.

Maybe 2025 will be the year for a new Lionel S scale catalog but in the mean time if you are a S scale guy buy more so that Lionel issues a catalog every year. If there is no S in 2025 then maybe Lionel is dropping S scale which would be a shame but personally I will not loose a lot of sleep over (no offense intended to any of the S scale guys).

JohnB

@JohnB posted:

I usually do not pay any attention to S scale as I am not a big fan but to each his own.

JohnB

     

Well, then why are you commenting here?

The FlyerChief engines have been done well with good pricing and they have generally sold well. Some recent reissues of Berkshires and Pacifics in Legacy offered at affordable pricing have sold well. The S Polar Express has done well. The Legacy Challengers were offered about a decade and half ago and sold, but have not be redone (although one fears what the pricing might be if they ever are).

However ....

Much of the Lionel Flyer product are repaints of rolling stock that has been offered for the last 44 years and based upon Gilbert postwar at that. Only one "modern" piece of rolling stock (a cylindrical hopper) was ever offered over a decade ago and its initial version was flawed (scale flanges combined with Gilbert couplers). The "new" heavyweights are good affordable cars, but that was about 15 years ago. Some desirable modern diesels were offered (SD70AC's and ES44's) but again over a decade ago and have gotten into repaint-itis. The recent reissue of the Legacy Y3a's and Legacy PA's (done in that ol' Gilbert Style) were offered at prices that are not truly sustainable and have not sold very well.

So ...

Much of the product line are repeats/repaints of equipment that many of us are already deeply buried in. The current Lionel product indicates little creativity on the part of the personnel responsible for it. The last serious run of serious innovative AF product development at Lionel dates from the Todd Wagner regime of nearly 20 years ago. Given all this and that product support in the form of parts is truly spotty, it is absolutely no mystery that Lionel Flyer sales are spotty to match.

In a friendly way, it is suggested that you might do some homework before making broad "observations".

Respectfully,

Bob

JohnB posted:

"I usually do not pay any attention to S scale as I am not a big fan but to each his own."

To which Bob Bubeck queried:

"Well, then why are you commenting here?"

That's sort of what I wondered, too.

In my case, I tried S. Loved its size and heft. Ended up struggling with the constraints imposed by product variety, so returned to HO.

HOWEVER, along the way I learned that S scale folk are very helpful and encouraging folk. I also made some online S friends. For the sake of the scale, and for the sake of S scale friends, I want S scale to revive. (Revive and thrive would be even better.)

Plus, I still have a latent interest in S and so I, too, hope for new things to look at and enjoy vicariously through my S scale friends.

Andre

I did a brief stop into S gauge but also found the current lack of support from Lionel to be an issue. I have since sold off the small amount of Postwar I had when I decided to move into command control. I went back to O. I like the size of S but I couldn't get what I wanted.

Lionel is certainly leaving money on the table.

@Bob Bubeck posted:

Well, then why are you commenting here?

The FlyerChief engines have been done well with good pricing and they have generally sold well. Some recent reissues of Berkshires and Pacifics in Legacy offered at affordable pricing have sold well. The S Polar Express has done well. The Legacy Challengers were offered about a decade and half ago and sold, but have not be redone (although one fears what the pricing might be if they ever are).

However ....

Much of the Lionel Flyer product are repaints of rolling stock that has been offered for the last 44 years and based upon Gilbert postwar at that. Only one "modern" piece of rolling stock (a cylindrical hopper) was ever offered over a decade ago and its initial version was flawed (scale flanges combined with Gilbert couplers). The "new" heavyweights are good affordable cars, but that was about 15 years ago. Some desirable modern diesels were offered (SD70AC's and ES44's) but again over a decade ago and have gotten into repaint-itis. The recent reissue of the Legacy Y3a's and Legacy PA's (done in that ol' Gilbert Style) were offered at prices that are not truly sustainable and have not sold very well.

So ...

Much of the product line are repeats/repaints of equipment that many of us are already deeply buried in. The current Lionel product indicates little creativity on the part of the personnel responsible for it. The last serious run of serious innovative AF product development at Lionel dates from the Todd Wagner regime of nearly 20 years ago. Given all this and that product support in the form of parts is truly spotty, it is absolutely no mystery that Lionel Flyer sales are spotty to match.

In a friendly way, it is suggested that you might do some homework before making broad "observations".

Respectfully,

Bob

Bob,

      I am commenting because I am a member of THE O GAUGE FORUM and I can comment on anything I want. Ever wonder why there was never a S Gauge Forum.

Respectively

JohnB

Lionel is very important to S gauge but they are not the only manufacturer. Lionel does own the Gilbert American Flyer brand, and Lionel is the only manufacturer making command control engines.

American Models has made a much greater variety of engines than Lionel but they all require retrofitting command control, be it TMCC/Railsounds or DCC. There are 15 AM engines on my layout converted to TMCC/Railsounds. There are a few MTH DCS engines in the secondary market but they will not work with the Lionel Legacy system. It is uncertain if AM will make more engines. Scale Trains is a long way from making engines, if they ever make any.

That brings us back to Lionel with the only in-production S gauge command control systems installed in engines. Legacy in S gauge even works with DCC. The cost of new Legacy engines will be what it will be. I wish Lionel would re-release the Challenger, it will not cost less than the new Y3, but that is what it takes to make them. I would like it if Lionel made the Legacy Mikado. The third Legacy engine could be the FlyerChief 4-8-4 with the Legacy system and some add on details like Lionel did with the Berkshire. It is frustrating these products and some others are not getting to market.

Rolling stock availability and variety is better. SHS made a lot of freight cars and most can be bought in the secondary market along with a few MTH cars. Scale Trains has made three cars with hopefully a few more on the way, American Models has new cars in inventory and there a lot available in the secondary market. S Scale America makes a lot of excellent freight cars at reasonable prices that are readily available new.

I am with S gauge permanently and prepared to buy new engines if Lionel makes them.

OK guys....lets try to not get too "snippy" here.  Keep on track and be nice.

@JohnB posted:

Bob,

      I am commenting because I am a member of THE O GAUGE FORUM and I can comment on anything I want. Ever wonder why there was never a S Gauge Forum.

Respectively

JohnB

No.

Just so some folks here can be awaken to know, there have been two S gauge forums on Yahoo for almost twenty five years, the physical publication by the National Association of S Gaugers, THE DISPATCH, and the excellent free on line publication, The S Scale Resource Magazine. There are also several very active on-line sites devoted to both American Flyer and S Scale on Facebook.

Regrettably, much of the broader community is not always knowledgeable about Gilbert American Flyer, Lionel/American Flyer, the several S gauge/scale manufacturers, the on-line presence of S, and related publications. Unfortunately, this often extends to Lionel itself, which gets us back to the original lament by Francine at the top of this string.

Bob

Bob,

     That’s nice but I do not plan on going on any of those forums you mentioned because again I do not have any interest in S scale. My reasoning for responding to Francine’s post was to point out is is not unusual for Lionel not to publish a S catalog or even produce any new products as the current rate of S sales do not warrant it. Instead you and laming have wondered why I commented on the subject. I always believed if you are a member of the OGR O Scale forum you can comment on any forum you want. I don’t own a railroad but I do comment on the Real Trains forum.

     Maybe the forum moderators need to look into your’s and Lamings comments and advise us what forums we can reply to

Respectfully

JohnB

Enough guys.  Topic closed.