O gauge ballast questions

I use Brennan's Better Ballast with 50 white glue and water mixture.  

I use Brennan's Better Ballast with 50 white glue and water mixture.  

I tried some WS ballast. It was very nice, no complaints about it at all,  but expensive to begin with and then additional, exorbitant shipping costs, doubled the already high price! I had to find another solution.

Kitty litter worked for me. No-name brand from the local grocery store. Here's what it looks like compared to the WS stuff . . . .

Thanks for the replies. I think I would like to try kitty litter but would there be a problem with it absorbing water and rusting stuff?

Thanks Jerry

The litter I used was dry as a bone in 24 hours after application with a 50/50 mix of water and white glue. Pretty much like any other ballast.

I did find it more prone to cracking due shrinkage during the drying process but that was not a problem for me.

People will state that it turns to mush when wet. Some truth to that. Minimize handling while it is wet. (Why would one handle it wet anyway??)

After it's dry . . . well, it's dry! Indistinguishable from the "high-price spread."

Kitty Litter can rust your track or any metal that comes in contact with it because the material components of litter is Zeolites. Zeolites have a porous structure that can accommodate a wide variety of cations, such as Na⁺, K⁺, Ca²⁺, Mg²⁺ and others. These positive ions are rather loosely held and can readily be exchanged for others in a contact solution. (Wikipedia). Litter is like clay that absorbs moisture. Unlike the granite or stone ballast.

This means that in an environment like a damp humid basement or attic, any moisture in the air is attracted to the litter material, even if the litter is 100% dry. Yes it is cheaper but in the long run you will damage your track.

I have no numbers on the time this takes as it depends on your basement air. I would not use the stuff in place of actual ballast materials.

CHEAPER AIN'T ALWAYS BETTER!

What about Parakeet gravel?  1.29 for 24oz online, but with $6.99 shipping.   The lowest I've seen from WS is fine iron ore for 6.70 for 32oz on Amazon with free shipping.  If you can find Parakeet gravel locally, I would think you could really save some money and get the same effect.

Just my opinion but, why is everyone trying to "cheap their way" for a scenic effect that is probably the most visual scenic item on one's layout? 

If cost of GOOD LOOKING ballast is your concern, then buy 50 pound bags of cheap sandbox sand, and spread THAT down first (after it is dried in 5 gal buckets first). Then place a thin layer of the GOOD LOOKING ballast of your choice on top of the sand, thus covering the cheap sand. Once glued in place, by first soaking with cheap rubbing alcohol, then applying thinned Matt Medium, the entire effect will look great, and also add sound-deadening to the track structure.

why is everyone trying to "cheap their way" for a scenic effect that is probably the most visual scenic item on one's layout? 

Best point of all!

Used chick grit (crushed granite).  You can spray paint it for darker colors.  Cheap and it looks good.

I feel that most O-gauge modelers use way too big of ballast.  Most stones on mainlines in the Midwest which I've encountered are less than 2 inches in diameter. I know some places they get to be 4-5" but not a common sight in Kansas, Missouri, or Indiana where I've lived.   At 1:48, 2" or less is .04 inches and less.   So often I see layouts with huge ballast of .08 -.10 or larger size.  

Most grains of play sand are between .01 and .04 inches.  

Woodland Scenics ballast - Ballast particle size: Fine: 0.0103" - 0.033 Medium: 0.033" - 0.049", Coarse: 0.05" - 0.082"

At under $3.50 for a 50 lb bag, Play Sand sits nicely between Woodland Scenics' Fine and Medium ballast. I'm finding that it takes paint well - I'm mixing the sand and paint before installation.  I like the results.  

Woodland Scenics ballast is made from Walnut Shells (We have a lot of Walnut trees here in Missouri).  Walnut sandblasting material would be another option like play sand that would take paint well - and is probably the same thing for a heck of a lot cheaper. 

I bought chicken grit (in order to go on the cheap) from a local feed store.  When I mentioned to someone that I was going to use it as ballast for my train layout, they recommended that I run a magnet through it to check for metal.  Sure enough, I did that and found a lot of small metallic particles in the grit.  Needless to say I didn't go with the grit, and switched to Brennan's.  Best move, ballast-wise, that I could have made.  It came out great.

Hi Jerry,

Here is Lionel tubular track with Brennans Ballast and it does cost more than kitty litter.

Hi Jerry

I've used Woodlands Scenics Medium Grey Blend.

It's what I used on my HO layout, but I like the look of it for O.

Cheers

The Chick Grit I have been using has no metal fragments.  I did test for it and it cost me $1.00 per pound at a tractor trailer supply store. It is only granite but I agree some brands you need to check for. If you can find them, roofing granules work fine also.   

The idea that commercial ballast is too expensive is not true in comparison to other train related purchases.

To put it in perspective, a 5 pound bag of my ballast will cover 22 feet of Atlas O or GarGraves track.  And, I can fit 5 bags of my ballast in a USPS Priority Mail Medium Flat Rate box for 13.45 shipping.  So, 25 pounds of Brennan’s Better Ballast (if you need that much) is about equal to the cost of a Lionel , MTH or Atlas O boxcar, or even less than a Menards or Woodland Scenics pre-built kit .  Remember, ballast is a limited expense. In the grand scheme of things, you will purchase many more train cars or buildings.  And, even on the largest layout, using 10 or more bags of ballast, the cost will be less than the cost of a mid range steam engine. And if your layout is that big, I offer a discount on 10 or more bags.

The point is, I have many satisfied customers and I don’t expect to get everyone’s ballast business. But, before you make a decision on a major scenic element of your layout, don’t base it solely on a misguided sense of economy.

^^that right there is one of the best things about this forum!  I will be purchasing Brennan's ballast for my layout.  I figure I'm about three weeks out from securing my track to my layout. 

Thanks, Basil.  I'm at your service!

Chicken Grit from tractor supply works and looks great and is made of crushed granite. Reasonable cost and comes in 5# sacks.

I wanted to use Brennan's. Emailed about shipping to Canada. No reply.

Hence, the kitty litter.

I'll get back to you in a few years about whether the Ross and Atlas track rust. Seeing as how I have the two side-by side, it should be a good test. Rather doubt it. It's not in a damp basement though. IMO, ANYTHING ferrous will rust in a damp basement over the years. Certainly my tools have done so in some 30 years!

Cost of litter? Essentially free.

Cost of WS? For me, delivered by mail, about $2CDN per foot! (Shipping pretty much doubles the cost. Depending on the amount ordered, it can be even more! )

Which "looks better?" Probably a matter of opinion, depending on colour choice.

Still, were I able to get commercial ballast at a price I didn't feel was just over the top, I would have done so. International shipping used to be of not much concern, but the last few years it's frequently shipping costs that kill a purchase outright! This is particularly true with weighty or bulky, rather low-cost items where shipping can exceed the cost of the product.

It's shipping that drove me to kitty litter. That said, I'm happy with how it looks.

Hi Terry,

I'm sorry that you never received a reply. I always try to answer emails as soon as I get them (at least within the same day as received). Somehow, I missed your email. Perhaps, it went into my junk folder.  When did you email me? Did you send it to dennis@brennansmodelrr.com? 

By the way, I have sent ballast orders to Canada using USPS Priority Mail Boxes. 

Hi Dennis:

Will send you an email, as I'd like some of your ballast. Seems I contacted you (or tried to) through your website. I have no record in my email "sent" basket. USPS would be fine!

Thanks . . .

DennisB posted:

The idea that commercial ballast is too expensive is not true in comparison to other train related purchases.

...... before you make a decision on a major scenic element of your layout, don’t base it solely on a misguided sense of economy.

Somebody save this for next week's inquiry of what to use for ballast,

I agree with Jacobpaul81, what  most people use is way too big.

If you put a piece in the hand of a scale figure, and it looks like he is holding a football, its way too big. It should look like he is holding a golf or tennis ball.

Holy cow, thanks for all the replies you guys are great!

Jerry 

I too have sent e mail to you DENNIS about your product, don't know if your or my server is sending or receiving?  Question is how much would I need for about 120 feet of Fasttrack?  Does your product work good with Fast Track?  Colorwise?  Thanks for your time.  E mail in my profile.

Laz57,

Email sent

I successfully used roofing granules. They are sized just about right since I measured the rocks under the N-S mainline through Louisville and the granules are almost exactly the right size. You can get different colors, but "white" are actually a nice light gray. 50 pound pail costs 20 bucks at a roofing supply house.

One big word of caution. They are not rocks. They are a manufactured product and contain an iron compound for mildew mitigation. That iron compound makes them slightly magnetic and that makes them a candidate for pick up into Classic Lionel equipment with Magna-Traction. I am speaking from experience. I have a big railroad and couldn't afford Brennan's ballast. If my railroad was much smaller, I would have not hesitated to use it.

Under Ross trackage, the roofing granules look good to me. Under the ballast is thin profile Flexibed, so there's not actually that much stone. That being said, I needed over 100 pounds of the stuff to cover the 350 feet of track.

GVDobler posted:

I agree with Jacobpaul81, what  most people use is way too big.

If you put a piece in the hand of a scale figure, and it looks like he is holding a football, its way too big. It should look like he is holding a golf or tennis ball.

I am in the aggregate business and haul rock to the Escanaba and Lake Superior railroad from time to time. They use a 2 -2.5  inch stone. Just for everyone's sizing info.

Matt

The idea that commercial ballast is too expensive is not true in comparison to other train related purchases. And, even on the largest layout, using 10 or more bags of my ballast, the cost will be less than the cost of a mid range steam engine. And if your layout is that big, I offer a discount on 10 or more bags.

Trainman's large layout is a perfect example:

It would take 16 bags of Brennan's Better Ballast to cover Trainman's 350 feet of track. The total cost with the discount including shipping =   

$254.32 Total cost delivered to your door.

I've posted this before, but most hi-rail ballast is too large - about the size of scale baseballs.  Brennan's is scale size, and looks great.  Ballast is not the place to save a nickel.

Nice Job, I like that your using Signals on your Layout .

Integrated Signals Systems.com Has some pretty nice signals too. 

Just a thought .

Good Luck, John  

GVDobler posted:

I agree with Jacobpaul81, what  most people use is way too big.

If you put a piece in the hand of a scale figure, and it looks like he is holding a football, its way too big. It should look like he is holding a golf or tennis ball.

Size... And color.  Here's ATSF mainline near Hutchison, KS...  Both vary from road to road and location to location.

And outside Augusta.  No big gray stones here...

I have used "Highball Products" (real) limestone blending light gray/dark gray at 50/50. Extremely satisfied with the results as shown in the accompanying photo. Largest pieces of limestone are 1/16" (3" scale) in size. Compare with current CSX ballast in Northern Kentucky right-of-way.

Kitty litter does not rust track. I know this from many, many years experience under a wide variety of conditions.

Thanks guys!,,,,

Jerry 

Besides his great scaled ballast, Dennis Brennan also has superb ground materials which I use for my freight yard and main line.

Al

Has anyone used the rubber ballast?  (Brummy's Landscape Express)   If so, what are your thoughts?  Thanks.

I agree w hotwater post, *if looking for alternative, the sand approach can work as can proper sized roofing pellets. However having tried those in past and my own view at least,  the commercial offerings available for ballast may be a better way to go.  Consider that If you are going to put in the time and effort to lay down ballast, one may as well use the best available  scenic mediums for your project   In the end tho, to each their own. There  exists endless opportunity for imagination and creativity on a layout of any size and type.