Panic Buying MTH?

I bought a new Big Boy in Union Pacific. Got it from Train World in Brooklyn.

Opened it and Smoke unit failure....Sent it back to MTH to fix.

Come to find out a lot of them are like that........

I agree - panic buying of MTH is running rampant. Have you checked the prices people are asking on our favorite "bay' site ?

They are asking more for dummy engines than prices for Proto 1 engines commanded 6 months ago. 

Looks like I got in at a bad time to start my MTH collection! 

What are the typical prices of P1 engines vs P2 engines? 

I don't buy anything unless I am assured that repair parts will be readily available and inexpensive but I have purchased a couple of NOS K-Line engines for around $100.  At that price point you should be safe.

I only have one BNSF (let's not talk about tha right now) SD70ACe on order from the previous catalog. Nothing from this one, though I'm thinking about a string of Gunderson twin-stacks.

Yup, picked up a Railking E-3 and GS-4 that were on my "someday maybe" list... since there isn't going to be a "someday" now!

You may be looking for a new command system eventually, but I have to say MTH makes a sharp looking product and a retrofit need wouldn't scare me one bit. Im always watching for a good deal on one to convert to conventional for myself too.  Mechanical parts?  Same as a hunt for post war items; no biggie if you're patient.

  I just witnessed far too many of my brothers early dcs stuff die to want to pay for the features I don't want anyhow .(a few grand worth. basically all of it)

I've got my fingers crossed for you folks though 🤞

@AGHRMatt posted:

I only have one BNSF (let's not talk about tha right now) SD70ACe on order from the previous catalog. Nothing from this one, though I'm thinking about a string of Gunderson twin-stacks.

I only have one BNSF

You caved to the Evil one did you...hhhmmmm.

You run pumpkins on The AGHR tracks, do I need to come to So Cal...

I'd still buy MTH  currently Proto 2 or Proto 3, but the 2's have to be at least 3 volts boards as I  don't want those 5v time bombs. They have been very reliable and wouldn't worry about any long term issues.

@John Pignatelli JR. posted:

I only have one BNSF

You caved to the Evil one did you...hhhmmmm.

You run pumpkins on The AGHR tracks, do I need to come to So Cal...

It's actually a little worse than that. It's a stable-mate to the one I bought last October when I yielded to my addiction to SD70ACe diesels. Needless to say I was Impeached as Information Minister and unceremoniously thrown off the Isle of Denial. The boot print from the Deputy Information Minister is still on my uniform trousers.

I have a lifetime supply of locomotives, so there's no panic for me.  If I spotted something I liked, I'd get it, but I'm not really in the market for much right now.

Coincidentally, I bought 3 MTH locomotives this year before the announcement. These were the first new purchases in almost 20 years. 3rd rail will probably be my only source for locomotives in the future. I've ordered from Atlas before, but then they cancel the production.  I'm glad that I made my recent MTH purchases. I'll miss MTH. 

No panic here. I haven’t bought any MTH in years. Between the cancelled orders and/or extreme delays, I quite buying MTH.

Steve

HEY Frieght Train Jim ,

You are absolutely right about the sellers prices on the bay. 🤕

Been going on for quite awhile though not quite as bad as now , I guess.

Many times I've gone for new because the used were way too close in price. 😨

@Andrew-Porter posted:

What are thoughts on buying MTH products now, before they close down?

I admit I panicked, bought an MTH locomotive that I'd been tentatively planning to purchase—because I succumbed to the thought that they might not be available for very long. How large is the inventory on these things, anyway?

Have all I need, so no and  you guys have fun.

@TheGeeker posted:

Looks like I got in at a bad time to start my MTH collection! 

What are the typical prices of P1 engines vs P2 engines? 

IMO, all else being equal, a PS1 engine should sell for no more than about half of a comparable PS2 version, with a minimum difference of $250-300.

@Adriatic posted:

........but I have to say MTH makes a sharp looking product and a retrofit need wouldn't scare me one bit. ......Mechanical parts?  Same as a hunt for post war items; no biggie if you're patient.

 

I suspect lots of folks would say there's an enormous difference between finding parts for Postwar Lionel engines, which are relatively simple and the parts common, and finding them for all the different complicated foreign-made MTH engines with an almost infinite number of different parts, many of which are already unavailable.

I didn't panic buy per say, however... I was planning on buying a set of woodsided coaches when they physically arrived in the stores (I'm not a fan of pre-ordering). When the announcement came out that MTH was closing, I did place a preorder for the cars just in case others panic bought these cars and they sold out before I could make it to my LHS.  

MTH has not produced anything I wanted since the first issue of the 44 tonner.  I really hate to see it go because of decreased competition, not because I buy its products.

I did buy an MTH dummy loco in a road name I like that I was thinking about since there's a possibility June 2021 will be the end of the company.  Never got into PS2 and PS3 in a big way,  and clearly not a plan to do so going forward. 

Do hope there continues to be ERR after market equipment, and that eventually there will be some combination of LionChief Plus, Legacy, LC + 2.0 after market possibilities for converting conventional, PS2 and PS3 locos for those people who want command.  Not optimistic that DCS/PS3 will be long term solutions except for the committed do-it-yourself hobbyists.  Happy to be proven wrong for the sake of those invested in the system, but it's looking dubious right at the moment.

From Just Train Delaware ... I pre- ordered from 2020 Vol. cat.  a Railking RS1 in Washington Terminal livery and a Premier Baltimore and Ohio 19th century coach.  I may order an additional B&O coach.   Not exactly panic buying .... just want to make sure I get a Washington Terminal RS 1 because only Atlas has ever offered this livery and that was many years ago.  I also love the MTH  Premier 19th century coaches and wanted to make sure I had at least one of the B&O in my fleet.  

Andrew,

     At the last York train meet I went to (Oct 2019) I saw plenty of NOS K-Line product. It has been a while since K-line went under but their is still product in the market. After seeing the weekly MTH 5 or Less remaining lists as well as Mr Muffin’s and Trainworlds sales flyers I think we will see MTH product for some time before it is gone. Don’t panic I’m not but I am a Lionel guy. Have not bought a MTH engine in years. Have bought rolling stock and accessories will miss them.

JohnB

Not me....l bought one big MTH loco years ago, and then gave up on the brand, due to lack of interesting roadnames, and cancelled offerings.

Now I feel like a credentialed (although accidental) prophet.

I owned only one MTH loco -- a SW 1500 diesel with NASA decor equipped with PS-2. I bought it because I liked the decor, then added 13 MTH (and other) NASA-branded freight cars. I never ran the loco or the cars -- all were set aside for display on a shelf in the Train Room.

In late 2019, I decided to test run the SW-1500 using the "bargain basement" version of MTH's control system: the modest Digital Commander. Admittedly, I guessed about the function of buttons; I'm not up to speed on MTH DCS technology. For all I know, I botched that attempted test and "killed" the loco because of my inexperience. I toyed with the idea of having it rebuilt with PS-3 inside; however, I don't own the top-drawer line of DCS control gear to optimize that technology. My layout is equipped with TMCC, a CAB-1, and a POWERMASTER. 

I arranged a "brain transplant" for the SW-1500 through OGR Forumite GUNRUNNER JOHN. He replaced the toasted DCS circuit board and other necessary components with ERR TMCC technology. Now I have a hybrid loco; it looks like a MTH product but has a Lionel heart and soul. It works great and responds to my Lionel-oriented control system, which I'm comfortable with. I didn't learn until after this switch-a-ma-roo was completed that Mike Wolf would retire from MTH.

Many MTH operators/collectors may now be wringing their hands about parts availability in the future.  To hobbyists who may face a worst-case scenario for repairs or parts for a MTH item, I suggest contacting GUNRUNNER JOHN for a "brain transplant."  As they say, one can have their cake and eat it too.  The ferro-equine neurosurgery cost was about the same as a new PS-3 SW-1500 loco.

The attached photo shows the NASA train now on display on the top two shelves. 

Mike Mottler    LCCA 12394

@Freight Train Jim posted:

I agree - panic buying of MTH is running rampant. Have you checked the prices people are asking on our favorite "bay' site ?

They are asking more for dummy engines than prices for Proto 1 engines commanded 6 months ago. 

There is one or two in particular from the same town or region of Pennsylvania that are absolutely out of their minds on prices, even long before the MTH announcement. On one months ago with “Make Offer” I sent a fair and reasonable offer with room to work. I received a counter back $2.00 less than the initial asking price. 🤦🏻‍♂️. I definitely wasn’t trying to steal it from them, but it was a used PS2. I got the hint. Someone else can pay original retail for a used engine. Not me.

Matt

Panic buying?? What's that?

I've been successfully selling here on the forum for the last month + (thanks to all of the buyers) as I thin out my collection. I've got more trains than I'll ever need.

The only MTH stuff I own are RailKing PRR passenger cars ("Fleet" and heavyweight). For semi-scale, they are the very best. "Overpay" if needed.

Ok I'll admit it I'm the elephant in the room lol. Since Mike made his announcement I said well this is a good time to finally log what engines I have and see what I'd like to buy before he closes down. When all was said and done after the week process of doing so, I'm currently sitting at 433 MTH engines combination of some Steam but mostly Diesels all of which are either PS2 or PS3, of the PS2's 95% are the 3 volt boards and what ever 5v boards I have will be switching over to PS3 or PS2 3 volts, like I stated earlier the 5v are time bombs.  In addition to the MTH units I have 6 Lionel Legacy Diesels.

During the past two weeks I did make a few second hand market purchases which I have no issues doing as long as the units are complete and free from damage and 100% functional. However I did pay second hand market pricing but not the ridiculous price gouging market prices we are now seeing from some dealer's on ebay and a few other sites. When you are listing a second hand engine for 399.00 and new is 419.00 from Train World it's a no brainier where to invest your funds if you truly want that unit, or just be patient as there are many MTH units that were sold which will eventually come up for sale and you can buy 2 for the same 400.00 investment.

I have been buying MTH PS2 since it's inception in 2000, so we have had a good 20 year run with it and hopefully it continues we shall see, but during all this time I have lost just 2 DCS boards. The two boards were both 5 volt boards, one I killed working on it with power on like an *** and the other just said goodbye over night I parked the train shut it down and the next day dead (died in it's sleep). Overall though they have been excellent performers with an awesome reliability record well for me anyway hence why I'm not too concerned when their doors close. They will still provide many years of great enjoyment so if something comes up that I like I will continue to buy it but for me it does have to be a 2004 or later unit with the ps2 3-2 boards in it. I find those to be the better IMHO but doesn't mean it is, just like the audio output and so fourth on them for I find some of the PS3 units sound like they have no audio drive to them to my ears.

So with all that I said I wouldn't panic buy as there will be more then enough of them around but I wouldn't be afraid to buy them as well just because they closed doors if a good deal pops up **** yeah go for it. Then there is always that rumor that the DCS portion will still be around for parts , enhancements etc but we shall see.

I wouldn’t call it a panic buy, but like Professor Chaos I did pre-order a few locos that I were on my maybe list.  I really like their color schemes and this may be my last chance to get them.

What? Panic?? Where???

Does MTH have any toilet paper??

Folks,I wouldn't worry too much about availability of MTH product, MTH's output was huge and tens of thousands of collected only,unrun MTH will be available at train meets and auctions over the next several years or perhaps decades as these accumulations and collections come to market. We're already seeing this with Prewar,Postwar and early modern-era trains. Be patient,there will be bargains.

"Mugs" post got me wondering how many MTH engines I have purchased.  My total number of engines is modest in comparison, 74.  Since I put in each engine of AA, AB, and ABA consists separately, the total number of operating engines is actually less.  I do this because I have no dummies so I can run them in various combinations.  Anyway, not counting the water tenders I have 21 MTH engines, or 28%. 

I buy mostly PRR items, so my issue is all the molds for these 21 MTH engines have been around a long time and reissued multiple times, some times even with the same cab number.  I have no problem buying MTH, it just has not produced anything new or something I wanted.

I agree with others above that the cost of new molds, fewer buyers as we get older, and basically the same stuff in every catalog would not make the MTH brand very desirable to investors.  Unless there is someone out there willing to go into debt to keep the rest of us happy.

So, if you are a MTH collector, buy now

I think the closure of K-Line may provide a useful insight. Initially, K-Line inventories were blown-out at very low prices but now many items are selling for their catalog price a decade later. Some are well above their catalog prices now.

HEY CAPPilot , 

Gotta go with you on the competition aspect of the hobby.

I've seen too many things that were good go by the wayside for various reasons and lack competition was a good part of it.

I have almost all MTH and DCS involvement and have learned how to keep it super reliable with the help of this forum and all the techs.  The stuff will more than likely outlast me even if I follow the COVID19 guidelines.

Good luck with your empire. 😁

@rdg_fan posted:

I think the closure of K-Line may provide a useful insight. Initially, K-Line inventories were blown-out at very low prices but now many items are selling for their catalog price a decade later. Some are well above their catalog prices now.

But K-Line did not use a proprietary operating system.

I’m tired. Can we just stop worrying so much about MTH and wait to see what happens. As for me I’ve got enough for now. Selling more than I’m buying. 

@Lehigh74 posted:

I wouldn’t call it a panic buy, but like Professor Chaos I did pre-order a few locos that I were on my maybe list.  I really like their color schemes and this may be my last chance to get them.

I have to admit that I just display trains, don't have a layout or run them. I bought a loco from TrainWorld in Brooklyn that I'd been intending, maybe, to purchase at some future point: the MTH 4-6-2 49er. I have my eye on a few others. Now if I had somewhere to display them...

I seem to remember hearing this somewhere:

"Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you got till it's gone..."

Rusty

I did not panic buy, but I ordered a few more things than I probably would have.  I do not believe there will be anyone that will purchase MTH as a whole or they would not have made the closure announcement (such an announcement only harms the incoming owner)  Best chance is that maybe they sell the rights to some rolling stock to various importers...hopefully I'm wrong...won't be the first time