Pet Peeve for Thought: Couplers

I have a couple of couplers I routinely wrap with a black twist tie for the same reason.  Annoying, but it happens.

Tru dat Thomas. Although I haven't had an incident yet at the tender, I have found that the large variety of coupler types by different makers can be problematic. Wherever I can I run MTH Premier trucks with the pancake uncouplers or Lionel Vision Line scale cars. Recently I got a flock of RMT ore cars. Nice rollers but a real PIA to keep on the track and to keep em together. If they are not uncoupling then they're climbing over the rails and shorting out the track. Adding weight just made things worse. The fix was to retrofit the lead ore car and trailing ore car (pulling the caboose) with MTH couplers that pivot just ahead of the trucks. This removed the side load on the RMT non-pivoting couplers through my switches and 036 curves.

Depending on how the coupler works, sometimes the spring can be bent or stretched to stay closed. The newest ones without the mushroom are the hardest, you have to drill out a rivet to get at the spring, and then where do you get a tiny replacement rivet?

I experienced the same issues, more than 15 years ago. I subsequently solved the problems by up-grading all my locomotives and freight cars to Kadee #805 metal couplers. End of problem!

You know my pet peeve is don't pull long trains and this topic has been covered i don't know how many times on here to fix coupler problems and kadee has problems coming apart too.  

No they don't! I started using Kadee couplers back in the late 1950s/early 1960s, when I modeled in HO. I have no problems operating 30 to 50 car freight trains, all with Kadee couplers. Even on our Independent High-Railers, Midwest Division modular layout, we still do NOT have problems with Kadee couplers on trains over 60 cars!

This isn't a new problem:  I've found cars in junkboxes out of estates with various

forms of knuckle couplers, and they are breadtie or wire wrapped, or taped, and I

definitely have the problem with replacement couplers I can get to put on kit-built

Nor is it only a "Lionel" knuckle coupler problem...with Marx tilt forks, as a kid, I had to bend down the tiny "catch" on all couplers to keep cars together 27 curves and through switches.  Dunno about Flyer links or Gilbert knuckles?

I agree on Kadees. I'm as time permits, installing Kadees, not for uncoupling while running, but for reliable coupling for switching that I do about 90% on my layout. I also have never had a uncoupling during a run around layout. Loved them in "N", now they are doing the same for me in "O". I also don't do any ramming to get cars to couple. Recommended, worth the money in avoiding trouble.

Not once have I had problems with vintage tab-and-slot couplers coming apart in a train while running. Ugly as all get out, but hey, they work!   LOL

I've got Kadees on the majority of my scale rolling stock, never had a problem with them coming apart when running, even long heavy trains.  My trains would have stringline derailments before I'd ever have a problem with Kadees coming uncoupled.  And as was already mentioned, the coupler action is nice and smooth, where coupling to other cars similarly equipped is light as a feather, with no need to use ramming speeds to coupler the cars together.

Kadees work very well.  I have never had a problem with them coming apart....ever.  I would run 30,40 or more cars w/o any troubles.

I thought Kadees had a limitation on curve radius. Are they ok for 036 curves?

The primary limitation is due to coupler swing, largely in part due to the coupler being fixed on the underframe of the car instead of being attached directly to and swivel with the trucks.  The limitations are ultimately dependent on the length of the rolling stock in conjunction with the size of your curves.  A Kadee-equipped scale 40' boxcar is going to have a lot more flexibility with smaller diameter curves than, say, a Kadee-equipped scale 89' flatcar.

Depends on whether the Kadee couplers are body mounted, and how long the car is. Personally, I have no curves sharper than 072, so I have even body mounted Kadee couplers on MTH 19" passenger cars, as well as 21" long SCALE heavyweight passenger cars from Golden Gate Depot.

I don't do 'switching' as such.....zero electric uncouplers on the layout....so if a coupler acts up....it gets a wire or epoxy treatment and never an issue again!

Thanks John and HW.

O72 curves . . boy I wish. But it does sound like it's worth a try to upgrade my MTH C&NW ore car fleet to Kadees if that can be done. Drilling and filing is not a deal breaker. Certainly would be fun to see how the Kadees look on an ore car consist!

Don't you reside in Torrance?  If so you're just a stone's throw from the AGHR club layout.  Make that your "home" layout and your curve limitations are solved. 

Boxcar Bill posted a mod for electrocouplers, it works very well.  Basically, you pop the rivet out and smooth all the interior operating surfaces.  I did a few and they are butter smooth coupling, and they no longer work themselves open, even with a long consist.

Boy, I have a lot to work on...... :-(

Ore cars are so short (about 20 feet) that you might be able to pull off 18" radius (O-36) with Kadee 805's or 740's. The problem will be a locomotive or other car with body-mounted Kadees, unless it's a K-Line Plymouth switcher or there's a very short distance between the pilot face and the truck swivel point.

A good rule of thumb for most cars is to multiply the bolster-to-bolster distance by three for the absolute minimum radius; by four for a better general operating radius. The formula doesn't work for passenger cars, 89-foot flats & autoracks, 86-foot excess height box cars, and anything else with extra distance from the end sill to the bolster. It works somewhat for diesel locomotives, but will be influenced by other factors in the locomotive's configuration.

The worst couplers for me have been the inexpensive K-Line freight cars because a lot of times the coupler release pin is too short to hold the coupler closed. What works with this is to replace it with a similar Lionel part as the pin is just a bit longer then the K-Line pin.

Another coupler that gives me problems is the Williams couplers on their F-7 & GP-9 engines. No matter what I tried to do to solve the problem it didn't work. What I had to do was use a small black plastic tie wrap to keep the coupler closed.

I have not tried using Kadee couplers for O gauge trains yet but may consider it. However it would be expensive to change out my entire fleet of O gauge rolling stock to Kadee couplers as I have close to 100 cars.

Another problem I have is when I add Weaver cars to any freight train as I have to put them in the rear or by themselves as they cause derailments when used with Lionel, MTH or Williams. Not sure if it is how Weaver mounts their couplers or if it is coupler swing compared to Lionel style couplers.

Lee Fritz

Unless you're adjusted the weight, many Weaver cars are very light.  They don't do good in a longer consist with heavier cars in front.  Once they're the proper weight, they seem to behave like any other rolling stock.

Yes!  I keep it simple, too.  whenever I uncouple cars, I have my hands on them.

I do admit though, since the new LC+ steamers have an electrocoupler on the rear, I have played with that feature.  You won't see me doing switching anytime soon, but it is a fun feature!

Hi Folks,

Do any of you just glue the couplers closed with CA?  I am considering doing this with some of my cars.  

Joe

Agreed.  Not an issue with how the Weaver car trucks/couplers are designed.  While the Weaver cars produced within the last decade or so come with weights installed, earlier Weaver cars were not, leading to their relatively light weight, and hence, poor tracking if heavier cars are pulled behind them.  This was partly due to the fact that Weaver started out selling their cars as "kits" for modellers, with the associated mindset that you assemble it yourself and weigh it yourself.  Adding more weights to the cars will solve that problem (Weaver sells weights for each freight car type) or you can use your own (fishing line weights, automotive wheel counterweights, etc.)

My home layout has some 48" curves in the switching yard so there was some hesitation at first using Kadee couplers. No problem, my 50 " cars went through easily. Next I converted some GP diesels but did not fix the pilot. These couplers are mounted to the trucks and could be put back to the original. Again no problem with radius or uncoupling. Here are some pics if it helps.

Ray Marion

Thanks Matt,

As John has pointed out I'm in Torrance and long overdue to get off my DA and come by the AGHR club during visiting hours. My buddy who got me into all of this mentioned that he knows Dave O'Connor (who he says is a member) and that we should plan to visit together in the near future. Now I really have no excuse! Hope to pay a visit in the very near future.

As I said in my post above.....a small drop of epoxy works wonders. CA may work but does not withstand impact as well as epoxy will. And like real trains....our do suffer from coupler slack!

Epoxy is easier to control in my opinion.

We're there every Saturday from 10:00am to 4:00pm. Stop on by. I'm the one who lives dangerously and runs scale wheels and couplers, but I won't be down there the 23rd. Dave lives a little less dangerously and runs scale couplers and hi-rail wheels or Code 172 "old school" wheels.

CA does work for awhile but it dries brittle, so a good impact will break it loose. Kadees are the best option, but a lot of work if you have a whole fleet to convert. It took forever to get mine done because each car is different. Now, as soon as I buy new cars, they get converted right away.

Use the black rubber bands or a glue of your choice. It doesn't matter if you glue them at that point anyway, because if they are popping open, they don't work right anyway.

If there's any possibility you might decide to sell the cars later, DO NOT glue the couplers shut with CA or epoxy! The next owner may curse you. A while back I bought a set of Weaver Hiawatha passenger cars that some moron had glued the couplers shut with CA (and a sloppy job at that). There wasn't a thing wrong with the couplers that couldn't be fixed in five minutes by bending the flat springs, but it took me an hour to get the blasted CA glue off of them.

If I need to keep couplers closed and I can't fix them on the spot, I use soft steel wire. One or two wraps does the job. Unlike rubber bands, you can't see it and it doesn't rot and break in a few months. You can remove the wire in a few seconds if you decide to fix the coupler. 

I run mostly Postwar and some "modern" Lionel equipment. Weak springs in the knuckles are not difficult to fix.

I learned about coupler limitations when I started stringing more cars behind my BigBoy loco. Postwar cars have rather noticeable drag even when they are cleaned and lubed, so a longer train stresses the couplers more and they sometimes come apart one way or another.

One factor is the parting line of the knuckle casting at the pulling face of the coupler. Look closely to see this. If you file the bump flatter, there is less chance of the couplers sliding up-and-over each other in a hard pull.

I decided that about 30 mostly Postwar cars is a practical maximum train length because you start getting into other track-and-train dynamics, like pullling cars off the inside of a curve. Of course, you can probably go much longer if you have newer rolling stock with easier rolling characteristics.

No disrespect, but if you buy stuff for yourself concerned about what the next guy might do with it IF you sell it down the road....... why bother?? They are your trains, do with them as YOU want/need to. If and when you decide to sell them later on down the road, put the condition in the description and they will sell or they won't.

Someone asked me at the club in San Diego if I am ever concerned about the value of my trains after I weather them. NO, I'm not. I bought them for me, not you, and I don't buy them with the intention of selling them.

Besides that, if the coupler doesn't work right for you, do you think it's going to magically start working correctly for the guy who buys it from you? C'mon Man!