Pics of 14" Naval Railroad Gun model build

                     looking good Jesse !              here is one I recently ran across...

                       https://youtu.be/yUS4huzCQNw

Now that is what I'm talking about.

Looks interesting.

Brian, that is the first O gauge model of a nice RR Gun I have seen.  And I have been looking around for some time.  This Naval 14in was used in WWI, and is now on display in Aberdeen, Maryland.

Clarence, I decided if I did want, need, a large RR gun in my consist, I would have to build it myself.  So far have only used materials I have "laying around", the reason for the .25in MDF, plus I want to be certain it has a low center of gravity.  Did acquire some Plastistrut  styrene sheets for making the flanges, gussets and reinforce ribs on the MDF "iron structures".  Hoping to locate more information on this gun, once in use at Fort McArthur outside of Los Angeles.  Could use better detail in pics and drawings to assist.

Ron, yes I do hope it will turn out nice with the right detailing.  Fabricating the separate parts from scratch with materials on hand is making this interesting.   It will have some weight to it, but do want a low center gravity.  And when complete will be over 20in in length.  My curves on my layout are all 072 or larger on the mainlines, and all switches are 072 or larger.  Should be able to be good on parts of running the trackage, working out, and fabricating, the multi-truck dollies for underneath will be the key.

Jesse   TCA

Here is a WWII German gun in O gauge.  The cars in the background help show the size.

Bill, I had long considered to have a large RR Gun, it would have to be in a German or French design.  There are so many more German military items modeled then American.  Glad I was able to locate what I have on the Fort Mc Arthur 14in guns.  There were two stationed in the Los Angeles area to protect the harbor and facilities.  They came by rail across the country from Maryland and Pennsylvania.  But, there are no pictures surviving of them making the trip.  Most likely due to censorship of the relocation and vigilant agents along the route.  I have ordered a book and it states there is one picture of the 14in gun being pulled by a Southern Pacific GS-4 as it sits at the terminal in Los Angeles.  Waiting for the publication and any information I can obtain, should arrive any day...….  Great looking Axis RR Gun, sir.  How does she pull around the mainline?

Jesse   TCA

TEXASTRAIN, I spent most of my life, and all my hearing in Artillery, specifically Towed 155mm Batteries. I love the guns, the bigger the better. Especially rail guns, and Coast Defense Artillery. You'd be surprised how hard it is to collect memorabilia from Corregidor. I applaud your effort to build the rail gun.

Clarence, Thank you, sir!    I have the Lionel PW 3666 cannon boxcar, and a flat mounted artillery made by KUSAN in the late 1950s.  But, never found a large caliber, Naval type, to have in my consist.  It may not be detailed enough for some rivet counters, but I am glad to be giving this a shot.  (no pun intended)….   As I gather more information, come across more archive pics of shore batteries, especially the RR Guns, the knowledge gained is wonderful.   So, thank you, sir!  And now for the details, making all those darn rivets will be something else.  I know they make them on clear transfer for those who build tenders and the like from scratch brass.

Jesse   TCA

My 'Leopold' is a static display.  At 35" long it would be a challenge to move around the track.

Brian,   Came across a pic of your 14in Naval gun as modeled, and not with the housing used when in the European theater WWl.  Have made progress on my 1920 model 14in Naval, more detailing on the upper gun carriage.  Found more pictures, some in color from the WWll era in Fort Mc Arthur.  Still trying to find out whether the "decking" around the gun was of wood, like majority of railcars.  Or, if it was of steel for the stresses from firing of such a large gun, as was the 14in gun you have a model of.  Of course, over time this can all change, as the color of painting the entire gun car did.

Jesse   TCA

              can't wait to see more pictures of your progress on your model...

Anxious to have more progress done on my model!!   I like the way it is coming along, considering my having to "estimate" the scale and what dimensions the actual gun and car were.  Have found some dimensions, but not all, and as stated, still looking into locating more details on the gun car itself.  Still, to have a larger railway gun in my consist will be nice.  This is my first crafting of any car from complete scratch, and learning a lot as I go along.  Really was going for a more RTR gun car when I started.  But, now, find myself making changes as I go to be, hopefully, more close to "scale" and more accurately detailed.  Even considering having the recoil action and the recoil/recuperator cylinders functional.  Also, thinking of the carriage/firing bolster elevating screws drives "somewhat" functional.  Whatever, I am enjoying the effort and know the final product will be ok for my military consist.

Jesse   TCA 

I do have some progress pics, but wish to have more to show and do not want to be too bothersome with pics that do not show a lot of change, even though the effort and build of details take a good bit of my time and effort.  Now thinking I should have use thinner MDF, and not .25in material.  Oh well, I am basically making use of what I have on hand, though I see I am in need of some more plastistrut items, now that I am getting more into correct detail than originally envisioned.  Something I found rather interesting.  When doing a search for more pics, information, details..... found a pic of my model, as shown in start of this topic, on Wikileaks!  Yep, the really rough looking initial start of what I had at that point, same as first pics I show in start of this post...…     COOOOOL...……    LOL!!

Jesse   TCA

Remember, this is a build from what I have on hand, other than the sheets of various thickness styrene purchased.  Suppose this could be considered O gauge, not O scale, for certain!  It is close to scale dimensions, but I determined the scale used, and may be a bit off. But, it is what I am looking for, a home build with parts and material "laying around", though I may have problem knowing when to stop with adding details.  And depending upon what I can make to create certain machinery.   Update pics with a slight painting for better contrasting...….    Still shooting for end of year completion...…  yeah, right.....LOL!!!!

Jesse   TCA   12-68275

                looking GREAT Jesse  !!    very nice !

Thanks for the comment, Brian!  A long way to go, but I am really enjoying doing this.

Jesse

Looking good Jesse! Will this be a working piece? 

Jesse,

Your doing a great job, often people are too intimidated to just try something.

Are you going to keep it in GI green or do one of the other schemes?

Jesse, that is looking great.

I think it looks great so far!  

-Greg

Great looking rail gun. We're all interested in your work.  Keep the thread and pics coming, you're doing a great job. Since it is a naval gun, paint it battleship gray.

I am a little late to the party, but your Railroad Gun looks great, what a super modeling effort.  In a related venue, you might like a little book I came across: "Armored Trains" by Steven J. Zaloga, Osprey Publishing Company, UK 2008 .  It starts with the American Civil War, covers WW1 & 2 and several conflicts between.  Seems mostly about foreign sources but good coverage especially of Russian / Soviet and German trains.  Great pictures of the consists both inside and out.  It is softcover and only cost $17 and is likely available on Amazon. 

Bobby - Have actually thought about that!  It is a brass barrel, with each of the three sections recessed into one another, tightly, for more than 1/2in each, sealed with JB Weld.  It will function mechanically with raise/lower barrel; gun upper carriage elevates/lowers; carriage bolster relocates forward/back to support raised upper carriage; gun barrel can be positioned 1) in stow for travel, 2) angled down for breech loading,   3) elevated for firing.  Trucks can be removed from under car frame, as prototype did, for mounting onto pivot pad platform and gun rail for 360 degree firing coordinates.  Have considered active recoil and recuperator cylinders.  Simply have springs within the brass tube cylinders to return the "loose fit"  gun barrel within the mount to load/fire orientation.  Still thinking about that one.

Ron - I intend to paint the 1920II Rail Gun in "as delivered" color of olive green.  First M1920II railway gun was delivered to Fort MacArthur October 1925.  Second gun was delivered to Fort MacArthur June of 1930.  They could each fire a 1400 lb projectile a distance of 27 miles, protecting the Los Angeles harbor and Naval facilities.  Two identical 1920II rail Guns were delivered to the Panama Canal Zone and could be relocated to either Atlantic or Pacific coasts as needed via rail.  The guns were later painted in a light tan color in the 1940's.  All four guns were decommissioned in 1946 and scrapped within the following year.

Clarence - Thanks for the comments.  As I have stated, doing this build from "on hand" materials and enjoying the challenge of my first scratch build.

Greg - Also, sir, thank you for your comments!

Third Rail - Yes, it is a 1920II model 14in Naval gun, mounted on a Baldwin built car frame and truck assemblies.  The naval gun and upper carriage assembly was built at the Watertown Arsenal, where the gun and railcar carrier assembly was completed.  From Watertown it was transported to Aberdeen Proving Ground for testing and commissioning.  A total of four M1920II railway guns were built for the Army Coastal Defense Artillery, two going to the Panama Canal Zone, two assigned to Fort MacArthur, Los Angeles, California.  First delivery paint scheme was Army olive green, later painted a light tan during the 1941-1945 war time period.  For concealment, the Fort MacArthur guns were kept within false "large farm houses" adjacent to the gun emplacements, moved out to the reinforced concrete platform for 360 degree firing positioning as necessary.  During the WWII periods, the entire gun and carriage was maintained upon the firing platform and concealed with camouflaged netting.  

Jesse   TCA   12-68275

Don - Thank you for the comments, sir.  I am in hopes of performing more detailing soon, plus better fine tuning on the trucks mounting and smooth operation on curves.  In time, a later project, lowering of the truck bolsters and center of gravity.  Right now concentrating on completion of the basic gun car, more detailing as time allows.

Jesse   TCA

Moving forward...….    Today "punched" out rivet detail in styrene sheets to cut and add to gun lower carrier girder where required.  Also "punched" rivet detail as shown in pics for the right side of the rear loading trunk side.  The girder rivets were punched into .020in styrene and the loading trunk side rivets were punched into .010in styrene.  First time I have tried this, found out the styrene tends to curl as rivets are added.  Not surprised considering the thickness of the styrene material.  Naturally, the .020in sheet isn't curled as severe, but I have seen same with welding together .25in carbon steel plate when working construction, even with use of dogs and spaced tacks.  Anyway, will affix the .010in rivet detail with full coverage of adhesive; cut the .020in rivet sheet as required and affix to girder where required.  The girder rivet detail sheet has three rows of double riveting, and two rows of staggered triple riveting as shown in pictures and drawings.  Plan to paint olive green before affixing to girder and loading trunk side.  Then if all looks and goes as planned, repeat for other side of gun railway car.

Jesse   TCA  12-68275

Due to the curling of the styrene with punching rivets, making use of thin copper sheeting to reinforce the back before painting and affixing to the side of loading trunk on the 14in gun.

Jesse   TCA

Have you considered using a pounce wheel to emboss the rivets? Consistent size/depth and the row of impressions is always evenly spaced and straight as needed.

---PCJ

Jesse:  Really looks cool .  As far as consistent spacing is concerned, I spent some years overseeing maintenance of aluminum riveted aircraft some of which were constructed in the 1950's and 1960's (at the time).  I can tell you that spacing was "sort of" even but only  if "Harry the Riveter" had a good day and relationship of location to that stated on the engineering drawing was purely coincidental

Railride, yes, I have.  However, I do not have one and wish to proceed on this project, purposely, "on the cheap".  I am making use 90% or more of materials I have on hand already, minimum of new acquired tools/materials.  With that in mind, I believe a lot, if not most, of people who read the Forum may have same around to work with.  Naturally, it varies from one individual to another, but that is the idea.  Make use of what you have and do best you are able.  Have thoughts of making my own pounce wheel... perhaps a gear/toothed wheel of some sort.  Still looking around in my cans and boxes to see what I may have.

Don, thanks for the compliment.  Yes, I agree.  When working in a Rohm & Haas chemical plant, they had two tank cars used to transport various products/additives within the plant between units.  Both cars were from the '30s or '40s (built dates varied with upgrades) and both were riveted plate.  Also, in older parts of the plant, some pipe racks were of riveted steel beams and columns, really thick webs and flanges.  And with both cases, the rivets were not regularly spaced as people are used to seeing in Hollywood films and old promotional film reels.

After making use of the copper sheet to reinforce the styrene, afterthought method of correction, may consider use of copper sheet for outside loading trunk surface, if it doesn't warp as severely with making rivets.  

Jesse   TCA 

Moving forward, built the Upper Carriage Left side davit, mounted just below the Left side barrel elevation bearing cap.  This was used to lift/lower elevation control wheel operator platform, for placement and removal.  Base mount I made has center pins to insert in davit swivel post, and accompanying post outside base collar.  Have both sides of loading trunk rivet detailing complete and affixed, completed recoil band recoil and recuperator cylinders with barrel recoil sleeve reinforcements.  Adding details to Left side Lower Carriage.  Really am adding more detail than originally envisioned.. but, got the bug, I suppose.  Could find no dimensions on davit, but scaled out and built to 4ft high, 4ft long.  From davits I have used in the past on sites, I believe it is close.Jesse   TCA  12-68275

Really not satisfied with left side davit when finished, plan to remove and do better next time.... I hope!   Always a learning process for first scratch build and first rail gun.

Jesse   TCA

Really awesome 

Very impressive.  I am also amazed you will be able to run it, even on O-72.

Thanks, Erik!   Making the small parts ( 1/16in and under) and gluing together with Gorilla Super Glue has a lot of challenges all it's own.  The aspect of giving a decent effort at scale detailing has become more intriguing.  Only hope I am able, or "lucky" enough, to complete with a good looking and reliability functioning military consist rail gun.  Thank you, for your encouraging comment, sir.

Jesse   TCA   12-68275

Thank you, Bill!   Yes, still have to work on the truck bolsters for smoother operation, and in time plan to see what can be done to lower the center of gravity. See no reason it will not be able to navigate O-72 and super elevated rail.   Plus, looking to find out what the deck and bolsters were covered with, steel or wood... most likely both, dependent upon function.  Again, sir, thank you.

Jesse    TCA

As we move along.....    

Jesse  TCA

A little update as I have been able to find some time to proceed on the 14in rail gun.  So much for being complete by end of 2019!!  LOL!!  But, I have taken to adding more details than originally envisioned.  So long as I can put in at least a couple hours each day on it, may be finished by May...…!!  More I look, more detail I find, or determine from old photos.  I figured as long as I am doing it, just see what is possible with items I have.  With my glasses aided eyesight and arthritic fingers, it can be fun.  Example, the elevating motor and gear box, on rear of right side upper carriage, is one inch long and made of ten separate parts.  Many shaped from brass rod or tube, assembled with files and tweezers and Gorilla super glue.  And scrounging around in my parts boxes!!  Love it!!  Moving forward...…..

Jesse   TCA  12-68275

As of today, 1-13-2020, made good progress and attached first "power cord" to control panel and motor.

Jesse  TCA

Well...  Progress is made but not as quick as intended.  LOL!   I am finding out the more detail I am able to discern from old photos, the more I wish to include.  Though not all pics found are from same period, so most detail is from 1930s, some may be of later design changes.  The routing of conduit is close as I have been able to make out from the photos.  Whatever, the enjoyment of this "scratch scrap" build is well worth it.  But, I am finding the clearances and tolerances involved, down to 1/32in, has surprised me.  With my bi-focals and stiff fingers, the challenge gets better all the time!  So hope you like the progress and added detail, however long it takes me.  Thanks for looking.

Jesse   TCA