Power supply 180-W 6-22983 vs 6-85226 ??

It would be nice if Lionel (or someone) would describe the upgrades/changes/differences (if any), I'd like to know too. There was talk of changes being made to the coming batch of 6-22983s a couple of years ago when they were out of stock for so long. The part number never changed when they finally became available, so I guess those were the same items?

I have a couple of the newer 6-22983s, from after the long wait. From the outside they look identical. I want to one day take the covers off and compare both to see if I can determine any inner differences. That's on a long list of to do's, maybe one of these says...I did order the proper triangle screw driver for them, hope it fits as it's supposed to. 

Could it be that since the PH-180 only makes up half of the 6-37947 (GW-180) they left the part numbers the same? I'm curious here as well.

Thanks RTR12

One thing they could have done is protect the LED in the switch from the "other" half cycle of the AC input voltage. Other than that, I can't think of a thing that was wrong with it.

I should have added that my PH-180s have been operating flawlessly for several years, great power supply and the breakers are also excellent. I haven't even run across the half cycle problem with the LED yet, but I guess it will probably get me someday. I guess they are not completely perfect, but seem to be really, really close!

Can someone explain what CJACK means when he wrote -- One thing they could have done is protect the LED in the switch from the "other" half cycle of the AC input voltage.

I am also confused - what is the GW180??  From the Lionel catalog description, the PowerHouse power supply "provides overcurrent protection in the event of a short circuit"   Are they saying that the PowerHouse is nothing more than a circuit breaker??

Please help, I am a 'newbie' to all this electronic stuff, thanks ---   

The LED just has a resistor for current limiting, but it doesn't have reverse voltage protection.

The PowerHouse 180 is a 180 watt transformer with a very good circuit protection electronic breaker.

The rest of the story a year later....

Did anyone identify a difference between these other than the LED issue noted?

The new PH180 has a switch in the output connector that requires you have a pin in the mating connector to enable power flow.  I also suspect the actual circuit for the breaker is quite different since it's been a long time since the old one was designed, and it's all analog circuitry.  I've yet to see anyone pull one apart and take a shot of the PCB, and all my PH180's are the older 6-22983 model.  I know the relay is obsolete, but the other parts are available.

Here's the schematic of the original PowerHouse 180

Thanks John, interesting history and I just found the thread on the electrical tape in the plug too. I was ready to do the "cheap" alternative and  get a 135W PH to add to a Z-1000 brick (in another thread) and now it looks like the 180W and selling the Z-1000 set may be the best alternative.

I'm not a fan of the PH135, it has an ordinary thermal circuit breaker that is nothing like the excellent circuit protection that the PH180 offers.

I just ordered 4 180-watt bricks; 3 from one source and 1 from another. The 3 I bought together are # 6-85226 and one of them is the older #6-22983. All are brand-new. Would there be any issues with using the 1 older model with the 3 new ones? Also, I put my meter on it and it's putting out 24 volts instead of the 18 volts the 6-85226 bricks are putting out.

This is odd. I just went back down to my train room, tested the brick again, and the meter reads 18 volts.

No problem mixing the bricks.

You can't always believe a high impedance digital meter on a transformer with no load, you can get wacky results.  Even a light bulb across the output will tame any bogus voltage readings.

Hokie 71,

Some early Z-1000 bricks went as high as 24 VAC, later ones to 21 VAC.  TMCC doesn’t like volts over 18 (per manual) so I would use only for accessories.

He has the Lionel PH180 brick, none of them had an over-voltage problem.

Hokie71 mentioned he had the Z-1000.  Need to be careful with those and TMCC.  Should have been more clear.

I ended up not using the z1000 brick and bought a ph180 for all the reasons noted above. The z1000 with controller is now on a loop with a conventional option per a toggle switch.

Can anyone note their experience with the Z-4000?  I just purchased one for my new layout and now have some concern if they are dependable and work as expected.  I’m new to 3R railroading after 25 years in G scale, and am learning everything.  Thanks.

They're generally quite reliable, but obviously nothing is 100%.

@Rich N. posted:

Can anyone note their experience with the Z-4000?  I just purchased one for my new layout and now have some concern if they are dependable and work as expected.  I’m new to 3R railroading after 25 years in G scale, and am learning everything.  Thanks.

The Z4000 has been on the market for decades and has a good track record. However, just like any other electronic device, internal components can still fail. I bought 2 brand-new Z4000s in 2018 and have been very happy with them, other than the fact that the circuit breakers are slow to trip. The concern many of us have, with the news of MTH's closure, is the availability of parts in the future.  Time will tell how that works out. Welcome to the world of 3-rail O-Gauge!!

Thanks for the comments.  Makes me feel more comfortable.  Looking forward to playing with Lionel again!

Here is the PC board in the 6-85226. It looks like they added a MORNSUN LD01-10B12 AC-DC converter and a fuse. The relay is now a Zettler AZ940-1A. It still has LM324A op-amp. Although the component reference designators seemed to have changed, I suspect  most of the circuit is still the same.

Steve

Keeping the breaker circuit for the newer version of the PH180 was probably a good move, it works very well.