Prewar OO two rail ?

If it were a really nice engine & tender complete and running it would be worth about $500. So you can go from there. I could say maybe $150. I'm sure someone on here will give you entirely different figures. Good luck with it. This is the first time I have heard of one without the motor.

It looks to be in C-6 Very Good to C-7 Excellent condition - it doesn't look too banged up, but there are those parts you mentioned that are missing, along with no coal load in the tender.

Lionel's 2-rail OO Hudsons don't seem to be as desirable as the 3 rail versions, at least that's how I see. It might be because the 2-rail track they made is usually found warped today. And engines with no whistles are worth about $50 less or so than engines with them.

I'm going to have to agree with Eddie that $150 is the overall best it would be worth.

Thanks for the insight Jim

If I was in it only for the money they would have been gone long ago, I was going to buy the parts from a man in Tampa over thirty years ago and just never got to it, besides they look good on the shelf.

Chester Holly if I remember?

Anyway these pieces have been together for so long it would be a shame to bust them up, I know the man I got them from was the original owner and was big into HO, so the engine was probably converted to run on DC ? I don't think their is an"E" unit in it.

I will take some pictures of the cars today then maybe with all you guy's help I can make an intelligent decision ?

Terry

Couple of the rooling stock

Terry

I have seen the freight cars go for around $50 each over the years, in slightly better shape than the ones in the photos.  I have a complete set, new in the boxes, that I bought from Madison Hardware Co when they were cleaning out their stock prior to the Kughn purchase.  I think I paid $50 for the caboose, and $100 each for the other cars. I could not afford the $400 or so that Carl & Lou were asking for a NIB Hudson, although I was tempted.  The caboose was cheap because they had several hundred of them, all NIB.  You can find the 2- and 3-rail track for sale at York occasionally.

An interesting note: The numbering plan follows the scheme that L used for the 0-scale stuff, with 00 prefixed to the numbers.

I envy anyone who has the Hudson, It's a great model, considering the age in which it was built, and the details they put on it.

Any reason Lionel did not continue OO after the war?  Too much H0?

From what I have read, Lionel simply decided to concentrate their resources on "0" gauge trains.

Here is my display of a 1938 0080 set.

Paper is the original dealer handout announcing the new OO trains,

Here's a scale loco and both sets of cars:

Thanks for the reply

I did find the hopper car but the trucks are missing the wheel sets and one side frame off of each.

I may find those eventually ?

My question now is do I fix these with clean up, motor, e unit, decals, wheels, touch up paint chips ect........

Does all that make them appreciate in value ?

Terry

IMHO, you will net less money if you invest in parts and then sell the trains.

If you clean or restore them improperly, you will lessen their value. I'd suggest fixing them up if you are going to keep them, or selling them as is.

Tom McComas says that, with World War 2 on the horizon and the Depression still in swing, it just wasn't the best time to continue the OO line.

Of course, as we all know, a OO line would've helped Lionel during it's troubling days of the late 50's and the 60's....

I would agree with C.W:  If looking to sell, just dust them and maybe use dish liquid in water sparingly with cotton swabs and tissues.

I think Lionel's OO trains are still one of the most underappreciated segments of their prewar production.  Don't know why as they are beautifully done and do run quite well.  I would have a hard time parting with these if nothing more than to display them.  Here is a shot of my little three rail layout, done as a diorama under my main layout.

Below are my OO display shelves with Lionel and Scale Craft equipment.  I really like the die cast Scale Craft passenger cars - particularly as Lionel never made anything other than their four basic freight car types.

I think Lionel missed the boat by giving up on the OO, they havedetail and it's a good size.

I took a few pictures of the hopper and I also found a motor with paper work on how to install it. I would say the motor is new or a fresh rebuild as it still need flats put on the armature for the coupler.(I found that also)

This should make the set a bit more apealing to the collectors ? Dont ya think ?

Thanks for any comments or advise.

Terry

Sorry, but that does not look like an original Lionel motor to me. Perhaps Dick will comment.

I really couldn't say for 100%, from what I see and have seen on evil bay of the motors the brush hoods and bearing housing look the same as what they have for sale.

Is I said I am not a Lionel collector and that is why I am asking the people on this site for guidance.

I did find this paperwork with the motor, it explains how to install the coupler.

It looks old and drawn by someone who knew what they were doing.

Thanks  Terry

Upon further inspection I found these numbers and letters on the end that would mount to the engine "001-M-3".

These numbers/letters resemble the rest of the numbering system that Lionel used ?

Anyone have a picture of what the "original" motor would look like?

Thanks Terry

The end piece could be a Lionel part. I would have to disassemble an engine to check.

Really, so you think a company would  make a partial AC replacement motor for a discontinued OO engine ?

Interesting ?

I did check and the motor would bolt up to the chassis if the motor shaft were cut and the coupler put on it.

I didn't try to fit it into the cab though, it may need the field insulation trimmed at the top to fit correctly?

Thanks again Terry

quote:

Really, so you think a company would  make a partial AC replacement motor for a discontinued OO engine ?

Interesting ?

I guess I can't blame you for questioning the answer. There is a lot of bad information posted on the internet.

The motor wasn't made recently.

It's a whole lot easier to use a Lionel end piece, as opposed to machining their own to fit Lionel's chassis.

How big is OO in relation to O and HO?  About the equivalent of S scale?

Lionel's OO pieces are very nicely proportioned and overall good looking stuff!

OO is 1/8" to the foot, slightly larger than than HO. 

Most, if not all British HO is actually OO scale running on HO track, but compares favorably to HO because the prototypes are smaller than their US counterparts.

Rusty

Actually, OO scale is 4 mm=1 foot while HO is 3.5 mm=1 foot.

That makes OO 1:76.2 while HO is 1:87

So OO is actually slightly larger than HO scale.

Jim

Lots of info on OO here:

OO website

Scroll way down for Lionel OO.

It includes this sketch:

The same website has a section on motors here:

OO motors

The Scale-Craft motors look a lot like Lionel in some photos.

Jim

hello guys and gals.......

So "OO" is scale between H.O. and S ? Its a odd size to me.

the woman who loves the 5011,623

Tiffany

It is important to distinguish between track gauge and scale.

Here is a list of the major track gauges

0                          35 millimetres (Sometimes 32mm.)

00    Great Britain  16.5 mm (Hornby Dublo)

00    Lionel            19   mm

S                          24

H0                        16.5

Scale

0      1:43, 1:45, 1:48

S      1.64

00    1:76  Both UK and Lionel 

H0    1:87

Note that Lionel 00 is the same scale as British 00, but the track gauge is a bit wider

Lew Schneider

Thanks for the replies :

This is turning into an education on OO gage, C.W. I wasn't doubting you, I just didn't think that OO was popular enough for other company's to to make parts for OO equipment.

Looking at the site that Jim posted I see how it worked and that if you collect this stuff you better know your motors.

I think my motor looks like the Mantua, but I am going to study Jim's posting for other possibility's.

Yep, I'm confused......................thanks Terry

Here are some nice pictures of "OO" engines and tenders.

Note that on the side shots of the tenders, that the top tender is a two rail with a whistle. The bottom tender is a three rail without a whistle.

"OO" photos

The engines look beautiful to me.  Question:  Are they known for being especially susceptible to zinc pest?

I personally have not seen any "OO" trains with zinc pest.

From what I have seen, it is very common to find rolling stock with broken trucks. Good trucks have sideframes that swivel. Both ends of the bolster have a cast pin like projection that exends into the sideframe and is trapped by a clip. That pin like projection seems to be a weak point.

It also seems common for the back of the rear truck of the engine to be broken off. Sometimes the break is so clean, it isn't always immediately obvious that part of the truck is missing.
Cowcatchers, couples, and some small trim parts seem to be missing frequently too.

Madison Hardware in NYC used to be a good source for many "OO" parts. When I was purchasing "OO" parts from them, they did not have any spare trucks.
I did purchase some boxed rolling stock (boxcars and cabooses), and a loose black hopper that was never decaled. The hoppers are shown here.  I will have to look at mine to see whether the steps are painted or chemically blackened.

My mistake. I forgot about the engine frames warping. I was thinking about zinc pest being full blown decay with the metal becoming brittle, expanding, cracking, and crumbling.

I think at least one of my engines has a warped frame.

How do you straighten the frames?