Problem with a LW transformer

The whistle control mechanism is a slide with a spring return that is operated by a push button. Is the slide returning all the way to the top position?
Has someone altered the wiring?

If your whistle is blowing constantly, the odds are good that the problem is in the tender, not the transformer
Look at the whistle relay contacts. Are they stuck closed?
If they are stuck closed, what happens when you hold them open, or slip something like a strip of index card between the contacts to break the circuit.  (The whistle should stop blowing)

If you have more than one whistling tender, do they all whistle constantly?

Here is a link to the Lionel Service Manual pages on the LW.

Yes, the slide is going all the way to the top position. The brass slides are hitting their contacts. It is not the tender, as I've tried a couple with the same results. I took one of the contacts and lifted it up so it was no longer touching. This kept the engine from running, however it also allowed the tender whistle button to work as it should, ie: only when you push the button. When I put the contacts back the way they were so the juice would flow to make the engine run I was right back where I was before with a low but constant whistle coming from the tender. I'll take a look at the manual tomorrow, it's a little late to get into that now but thanks for the link.

Did you recently take the transformer apart? Those contacts can be difficult to get back in properly on the LW.

No, I didn't take it apart any further than needed to replace the power cord. It was a new acquisition and the first train I ran on it was a prewar 254, no tender. Ran like a top. The next had a whistle tender, that's where the problem showed up. I was able to raise some of the contacts to get the results I noted above (where the whistle worked as it should but then there was no power to the engine) but when all the contacts are where they are supposed to be, and it is clear where they are supposed to be, it sets off the whistle in the tender at a lower level then when you push the button down (and yes, you can push the whistle button down and make it louder). The button does nothing to the voltage, it does something to the frequency, IIRC, so perhaps another aspect of the transformer is putting out interference mimicking that.

what contacts did you "lift up" that cut track power to the engine?

When it is working correctly, the button operates a two step switch as you push it in.
First the button adds approximately 6 volts through an extra winding on the transformer, and puts a rectifier in the circuit, which converts the electricity to 1/2 wave D.C. This causes the relay to close, and if left this way, the train will likely slow down.
As you continue to press the button, a resistor is placed in parallel with the rectifier disk, allowing most of the full wave A.C. to flow.
The net result is biased A.C.
There should be just enough D.C. bias to hold the relay closed, about 1/2 volt.

Lionel gave spec's for each transformer checked on one of their test benches), so I guess the value can vary.
The D.C. bias does vary with the load.

I'd look for signs of fresh solder on the whistle switch terminal.
And compare the wiring to what is shown in the service manual.
Somebody changed something.

Okay, looking at the schematic link provided above by CW, it shows a resister between the whistle control and the rectifier. All mine has is a long white cloth covered wire that is wound up about 4-5 times, like if one wound it up around ones finger, between the two points. That wire couldn't be the resister, could it? If not, what would an equivalent modern replacement be?

It is shown on page three of the link you mention. Don't play too much with its insulation, it may contain asbestos - C.W. could probably verify whether or not.

If you are sure that there is not a problem with the tender's relay, I'm thinking that the diode is locked into the circuit somehow and providing the DC offset continuously.

Dave

The wire covered in the long white cloth is the resistor.
I believe the insulation (long white cloth) is asbestos, but I don't think I have any documentation to back that up.
As Dave wrote, I think it is best to disturb that wire as little as possible.
Replacement? - I've never had to replace one.
I guess you'd have to measure the resistance, and get a wire wound resistor with enough wattage capacity to handle the load.

The resistor and the rectifier disk should not be in the circuit when the whistle button has not been pressed. If you take some close up pictures of the transformer, someone might be able to spot the issue.

It really frosts me when folks sell defective goods at a train show (unless they make it clear to the customer that it is as-is and that repair is needed). It causes frustration and disappointment for the purchaser (trains are for enjoyment!), and makes the rest of us look bad.

Is there anything else on the track or connected to the circuit from the transformer?

Dave

No, at this point I've been bench testing it. I'm at a loss. As long as there is power to the engine the whistle will run, albeit at a lower volume then if you push the whistle button while it is running. Thinking about sending it out for a repair. Can't seem to see anything that I can replace which would fix this. I've systematically removed wires one at a time to see if it changes anything and as noted above, unless it cuts power to the locomotive, it just continues to whistle.

Do you have another transformer?
If so, does the whistle work correctly with it?

I have a TW and all my whistle tenders work fine with it. Tuning up the whistle in a tender is not to difficult. I've pretty much tried all the easy possibilities prior to posting here, testing multiple tenders, other transformers and so on. Once I was truly stumped I tried the forum hoping someone may have had the same problem.  I've sent an e-mail to the guy here: http://www.lioneltransformer.com/ to see what he can do. Perhaps he may just come back with a " Oh, that's simple, just do this...." but I doubt it. Will likely have to ship it to him.

As C.W. mentioned, provide pictures, it may save a repair charge for something simple.

Dave

Okay, I have some pictures. The asbestos coated wire I replaced with another of the same length and gauge. As expected, it made no change.

Looks like I'm only able to do one at a time.

Another

Again. Here I tried to use a small butane torch solderer. It caused the minor burn you see. It was a tight flame, just not tight enough around the paper.

Another...

Again

Okay, I have some pictures. The asbestos coated wire I replaced with another of the same length and gauge. As expected, it made no change.

The original wire was nichrome resistance wire. Most of use don't have any of that stuff lying around. You cannot replace nichrome wire with other types of wire, and expect the transformer to work correctly.
nichrome wire does not solder. The original Lionel nichrome resistance wire had pigtails bonded to the ends so it could be soldered in place.

That orange wire certainly is not original.

The lug on the switch assembly to which that orange wire is soldered looks to be crooked to me. I will have to look at one of my LW's. That could be your problem

First, you need to replace the resistance wire back. Replacing it with a common wire won't work. Is there a phenolic black washer behind the rectifier disc on the back of the stud and a smaller collar around the hole in the disc. A metal washer won't work. 

It's probably not a good idea to use a butane torch to solder wires on any train or transformer. I have never heard of anybody doing so. Most folks use either a soldering pencil or a soldering gun.

The SJ cord you chose to replace the power cord looks awfully heavy for a Lionel train transformer. I am surprised you were able to get the copper strands through the eyelets on the terminal board.

I think it might be best to turn your transformer over to somebody who is familiar with servicing them. 

Looks the same as the last but contacts are at different locations here.

I can put the other wire back, it WAS just soldered on and removed easily with a soldering iron which I used after my escapade with the propane soldering torch. As far as the replacement cord, the cord is thick but that actual wires inside were no thicker then the originals and is not the cause of the problem at hand. That being said, the inclusion of the above pictures has not provided any new insights in regard to the whistle issue as it has already been noted that the resistance wire has no impact to the function of the whistle. Consider the original wire replaced, but I am re-insulating it (shrink wrap tubing) as the white wrap has spots on it where the wire is showing through.

[quote]I can put the other wire back, it WAS just soldered on [/quote]

As  I previously wrote, Lionel bonded plain wire to the ends of the nichrome to allow the resistor assembly to be soldered in place. The bonds many be hidden under the white insulation sleeve.

There is always the possibility that someone replaced the resistance wire assembly with plain wire before you.

No, it was bonded. There was a clamp that was a dual clamp that was like a figure 8, with the resistance wire in one hole of the"8" and the regular wire in the other hole. I used it to re solder it back once I re-insulated it. And, yes, there is a black plastic washer type thing on the rectifier disc, possibly Bakelite. Unfortunately as noted before the resistance wire nor the plastic disc is the culprit in regard to my whistle problem, which has seemed to fallen to the wayside. 

I think I know where your problem may be hiding. Do you have a meter to test with?

Dave

Yes, I found my Multi-meter.

Remove any connections to the external terminals. With the transformer unplugged and the cover off, connect one lead of your meter to the external "U" terminal. Connect the other lead to the bracket that holds the rectifier diode. This will have to be a solid connection isolated from everything but the bracket. A good location for a probe tip is shown if you don't have proper clips.

Do not push the direction or whistle buttons.

With the meter set to an ohms function high enough to get a reading, record what you get. Then reverse the leads at the meter. There should be a large difference between readings. If they are close, the anode side of the diode (the bracket) is shorted to the path leading to the "U" terminal. This could be between the contacts on the left side of the whistle switch or the connections leading to the direction switch. It could be something small like a wire strand or a bit of solder.

After looking at the schematic last night I opened my essentially new-in-the-box LW from the early 60"s to confirm. I hope you find it. Otherwise, without having it in front of me to look at, I'm stumped.

Dave

Well, I got a .5 one way and when switched at the meter I got a .3. Don't know how I could have gotten a large difference out of that. I must have done something wrong with the meter. BUT, I took it all apart again, double checked all wiring and made double sure nothing was touching anything that it was not supposed to, not that I found anything that seemed out of place. Put it back together and son of a gun, the whistle is working like it's supposed to. Gremlins. Has to be. Question is, for how long, especially since I could not find an obvious flaw.

From what you read it was shorted. You should have seen a very high reading or even infinity in one direction because the diode only conducts one way, basically.

When you disassembled it again you dislodged the conductive foreign material, or, separated parts/wires that were in contact and shouldn't have been.

Glad you have it working,

Dave