PRR E-2b, E-3b and E-2c

The moderators will open the thread it for you if you ask them and provide a link to the thread so they don't have to hunt for it.

 

Any threads with no posts in 6 months all got closed by an automated admin setting or something, which I think they have now changed so it doesn't happen again.

I would love to see these made. Before every new catalog comes out I hope one would be offered. Not giving up hope yet.

Thanks for starting this post.

 

 

russ

This is most likely one of a very small handful of Pennsy motive power that has not been made.

Norm

There was a sign up sheet to gauge interest at York.  Did you see it and add your name? If not you might want to contact Bob Heil (reheil on the forum), as well as send a direct e-mail to Scott Mann, to do so. 

I think the E2c / E3b [ = the Westinghouse ones ] would be a good candidate for MTH:

  -  One body shell gives them two distinct units

  -  Since they could only MU with their brethren, MTH would "have" to sell them as pwd + dummy pairs

  -  Think of all the paint schemes MTH could do them in:  PRR, PRR passenger, big keystone, Conrail, Penn Central, New Haven, VGN, GN, Deseret Western......

 

SZ   [ who many many years ago made pseudo-E2b's by just table-sawing off one cab from Lionel EP5's.....]

Someone sold two body shells on Da bay last month. they two used the front of a lionel EP5

John, I live in another world, namely Prescott AZ.  It would have been my pleasure to sign the sheet, but it's much too far away. 

 

I will note this to the moderator, so hopefully they will reopen the August 2013 blog and or combine them. 

 

FWIW there actually were 4 different models.  The E-2b had two slightly different versions for 2 different RR, but the PRR ended up with all of them. 

 

Mikeg

 

 

sent note to moderator, hopefully they can merge both blogs. 

 

Sent email to Scott Mann referencing this blog. 

 

i do not know Bob Heil's e mail so if someone here does, would they please contact him for me. 

 

mikeg

Guys,

The Sunset/3rd Rail sign up sheet provided by John Sethian is for the E2b. E3b (or whatever the B-B-B version was - I never could keep them straight) would probably have too many potential engineering issues with the middle truck in addition to the higher cost.

 

These would be brass models as we don't foresee being able to make 5oo units which would make a plastic body feasible. I would guess the retail price to be in the same range as the NYC T motors and the proposed R motors ($ 800).

 

The response on the interest sheet has been reasonably good so far with about 50 potential reservations and that from just the 2 rail shows I attend in addition to this past York (which only added about 5 units to the total.)

 

I don't think any additional lobbying for these units need be done. When Scott and I meet this summer to discuss future projects I will make the case for floating these out for reservations in the fall if not sooner.

 

In real life I saw these E2b units as well as the other experimentals running through Baltimore quite frequently. The E2b's seemed to be paired with one or two P5's more frequently than running as an E2b pair.

enclosed attachments are the older blogs on same subject. 

 

Sorry cannot load older blog Oct 31, 2011 namely to Scott Mann re electrics

contacted Scott Mann via email and forwarded the post by rheil to him. 

 

hopefully we will see some movement. 

 

I'm too old to continue waiting much longer. 

 

mikeg

Bob and Scott, I am in for the E2c but would love the B-B-B version and I believe would be a much better seller, The MTH DC3 Rail inspection car has a free floating dummy set of wheels that work very well, you may want to look it over, I have one if you wish to look it over. I was not aware there was a sign up sheet, please put my name on it.

John P

i would love to get all three sets, but probably impractical.  what i order depends strictly on what is offered.  one set of each mfg would be great. 

 

mikeg

 

 

 

does anyone know whether or not any oddball PRR electrics will be announced by third rail or anyone else?

FF2 has disappeared from web sites and a blurb re new and improved GG1 to go with silver meteor.  then lionel announced sparking gg1 and nothing.

i posted a plea for e2b, e3b and e2c prior to Oct meet in York, which was promptly deleted for some reason. 

my hopes are sagging for these engines.

 

mikeg

Here's the direct link: https://ogrforum.com/topic/prr-electrics

 

Jan

If any of these were ever done in O, I submit that they would have to be scale.  Are you seriously suggesting that they should be done in "traditional O-27"?  Sunset has never produced anything that would not be considered at least "3-rail scale".

 

Edit: I see your original thread is in the 3-rail scale section.  I suspect that fifty firm reservations will probably do it - give them a bit more time.

 

this was originally in 3-rail scale and moved here.  i do not want anything that is not scale at this time.  i was resuming posting to this blog hoping that perhaps i could get a posting by some mfg to start the ball rolling. 

 

mikeg

 

 

I have had an "are you interested" sign up sheet at the Sunset display  at many 2 rail shows for the past year or two. I have probably 50 or so units that folks claim they would reserve from Sunset Models in brass. The price would likely be in the $1200 range per unit which seems to understandably put many off.

 

Not sure where the project will go in the future but it is definitely under consideration. I would look for an on line reservation sign up from Sunset during 2016.The unit offered would be the B-B wheel arrangement E2b.

if you are looking for a lower priced alternative to a brass model look at my post "a 2 rail use for a Lionel ep5 shell posted feb 17th 14. i used a lionel shell ahm trucks to model this electric. a Prr e2b was the result.......

Bob Heil's estimate compares very favorably with MTH's current offering of the Premier New Haven EF-3b in the 2014 catalog.  Its list price is $800.  So I don't think you would find someone making one cheaper.

 

Bob, you can add me to the list.  I didn't make York this year. 

 

Jan

As Bob and Scott know, I would definitely order two E2bs. I am not thrilled with the $1200 estimated price, but I would pay it as I consider it essential for my railroad and time frame.

 

I am only interested in a reasonably high fidelity, full scale model.  In my opinion, the only manufacturer who would do this is Sunset.  The reason is these locomotives had several distinctive features that prevent using existing parts.  One feature is they had 48" wheels, and correspondingly huge trucks with a much longer wheelbase.  Another is the nose, which while EP-5 like, has different contours.  Finally, the cab body itself is a lot squarer than a lot of diesels.   All of this means unique tooling.  And only Sunset has the track record of doing this.  Of course all those unique features, I assume, are one of the reasons for the price.

 

Here are several shots of the E2b:  Note in the last photo they were MU'd with P5a Boxcabs

  

 

 

within the last several weeks i sent Scott Mann an email order for 2 e2b and or 3 e2c & e3b's depending upon what he manufactures.  i have heard nothing in reply and reactivated this blog to see if i am alone.  at 79 there is a definite time limit to my modeling career. 

 

mikeg

 

 

ps beautiful pictures John.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well prrtrainguy, looks like if you want this model that badly, you should be activating "plan b"

Unfortunately no interest here....electrics aren't my cup of tea. 

-Greg

One of my books has two pictures of one E2b in the lead with one P5a boxcab pulling freight.  The cars behind the boxcab are different in each picture, indicating the pictures were taken at different times.  I think this would be a neat consist to run except I'm not sure how well a 3rd Rail engine will run with an MTH P5.  It would be more interesting to me than another AA set.

if Scott decides to build the E2b it comes in two slightly different flavors. 

 

E2b # 4939-4942 were delivered to the PRR. 

 

Ge also built #5025 & 5026 as demonstrators for testing on Great Northern Ry.   No sale, also to NH again, no sale eventually sold to PRR. 

 

Where they painted as demonstrators or in GN colors.  Did the GN have the same overhead voltage? PRR had 11,000volts and somewhere I have a hazy memory of 25000volts for mountain rr's in the west. 

 

The only exterior difference was the addition of an extra number board over the front Headlight. 

 

John's pix show both types and in addition the demonstrators may give Scott the possibility of offering 3 different but very similar models, if that works for him.

 

keeping on plugging

 

mikeg

 

 

Yes, the Great Northern and the Pennsylvania (as well as the Norfolk & Western, New Haven, and Virginian) ran on 11,000 volt, 25 Hz AC.

 

As far as I know 25,000 didn't start being used until the late 1960's, first with the Muskingum Electric Railroad in Ohio.

 

Stuart

 

 

 

Stuart

Can anyone provide information regarding the units paint and lettering while being used for demonstration purposes on the GN and NH? That would certainly help the cause as it can be included in any future Sunset ads for the E2b.

C'mon Sethian, here is your opportunity.

Here is the GN.  A tough paint job, to be sure:

 

  

 

And here is the New Haven

 

 

I have never heard of the NH being involved with these in any way.  There is no mention of the NH any of the E2b, E3b or E2c Electrics in "The Pennsy Electric Pictorial" by Zak and Withers, which I consider to be one of the defininitve books on the subject

John, Get together with Frank Swafford ( I may have spelled Franks last name wrong), he will fix you up. He is the Photoshop Maven on the forum.

 

 

Bob, how is the Resin building casting going, I am in for two sets, plus two sets of the loading dock castings with the freight doors. I also,  am in for one each of the PRR E electrics.

John Pignatelli

Pigzilla@sbcglobal.net

Pennsylvania Electric Locomotives & MU Cars by Robert A. Liljestrand & David R. Sweetland.  page 33 is my reference source re E2b's &  pages 34 & 35 E2c & E3b. 

Sorry I did not credit them and their book properly, earlier. 

 

 

mikeg

 

 

Went to NHRRTHS wb site and ask for help.  This is reply.  Does anyone have NH Power to obtain pix. 

 

Thank you Rick Abramson on NHRRTHS blog.

 

 

Mike

 

Thanks for calling my attention to the Liljestrand and Sweetland book. Mine finally arrived, and I found it to have some information I have not seen anywhere else.  More importantly, it had some photos of PRR electrics that I have not seen anywhere else!

we are all rattling the cage door, but no response from Scott. is he aware of our pushing and shoving?

 

 

mikeg

I hope we can find more backers for this project. This may require a bit more effort on our part to push this.  Plain black is not a big seller in MHO. 

 

On the plus side I believe the same body can be used for all wheel configurations. 

I wonder how many are interested now?

John P

the body was the prototype for the NH jets.

 

mikeg

 

 

 

Yes. Please see my posts of November 12th and 15th.

Bob, all the photos of these units seem to be back to back A units, you folks may want to consider a special price for the two units.

John