PS-3 Engine sound but no movement

Check for a DCC/DCS switch and make sure it is in the DCS position. It is probably located on the tender.

If there is a 2Rail/3rail switch, make sure that is set for three rail..

Tom

To my knowledge MTH PS1 never had a 3 rail/2 rail switch. Back then 3 rail and 2 rail were completely separate. Perhaps the installer put in a DCS/DCC switch and it is set to DCC?

To me it sounds like it is something mechanical. Like something is stopping the motor from turning the wheels or something jammed in the gears. The whine you speak of sounds like the motor trying to turn but can't. I would not apply any more power to it-I would take it apart and make sure nothing is impeding the gears/motor/etc and that mechanically it is okay.

Just curious but why did it take years to get the upgrade done?

Good luck John!

Definitely remove the engine shell and rotate the flywheel and verify everything moves without binding. I would think it would have been tested by the shop after the upgrade. Which they may have done with shell off. Maybe something in the wire routing is hanging up the flywheel from turning.

@Hudson J1e posted:

To my knowledge MTH PS1 never had a 3 rail/2 rail switch. Back then 3 rail and 2 rail were completely separate. Perhaps the installer put in a DCS/DCC switch and it is set to DCC?

To me it sounds like it is something mechanical. Like something is stopping the motor from turning the wheels or something jammed in the gears. The whine you speak of sounds like the motor trying to turn but can't. I would not apply any more power to it-I would take it apart and make sure nothing is impeding the gears/motor/etc and that mechanically it is okay.

Just curious but why did it take years to get the upgrade done?

Good luck John!

I am not very familiar with the PS3 upgrade package. Does this upgrade kit not include the DCS/DCC selector switch or function or the 2 or 3 rail selection switch? Just curious.

Tom

It sounds like the motor is rotating but something in the drive is slipping.  Of course, the exact model would be useful here.

Thanks for the replies so far.

First, about the whining noise, it was the smoke unit. The DCS remote at the train store must have had a problem as it would not properly turn off the smoke. When I brought it home, my remote was able to turn it off and stop the whine. So that problem is solved.

For the movement, you guys were correct; it was a binding problem. The front wheels were getting stuck on part of the chassis. The reason for this is, unfortunately, a bigger problem though.... I'm not sure if the engine was dropped, but the front pair of driving wheels appear bent (further evidence is a chip in the wheel, which can be seen in the attached pic). A slight adjustment to a bracket in the chassis allowed the wheels to spin freely on the engine itself, but the bend is now causing the flanges to rub on the inside edge of the rails. This is making the engine bounce up and down as the wheel (which is now wider than it should be on one half) rides up on the flanges. It also makes it hard for the engine to keep at a steady speed, since half of the time the wheel binds on the rails. And of course, it's even worse on corners and switches.

What are my options here? Can the wheel be replaced? Or perhaps bent back into position? This is a Railking 4-6-4 Hiawatha, by the way. I can see no obvious way to remove the wheel. They seem "press fit" to the axle in some way.

I would contact Pat (Harmon Yards). He is awesome. I am sure he can fix it.

@Krieglok posted:

I am not very familiar with the PS3 upgrade package. Does this upgrade kit not include the DCS/DCC selector switch or function or the 2 or 3 rail selection switch? Just curious.

Tom

It’s optional to include the DCC/DCS switch on an upgrade but you don’t have to. The Rail King engines don’t have it and run fine. I have installed it on the few upgrades I did. You would only have a 3R/2R switch if the engine originally was a 3R/2R engine. If it wasn’t then it can’t change from 3 rail to 2 rail so no point in having the switch. Case in point the OP’s engine was PS1 so it doesn’t have the ability to change from 3 rail to 2 rail so no point in having the 3R/2R switch.

The advice to contact Pat is solid, you need to replace that wheel.

@Hudson J1e posted:

It’s optional to include the DCC/DCS switch on an upgrade but you don’t have to. The Rail King engines don’t have it and run fine. I have installed it on the few upgrades I did. You would only have a 3R/2R switch if the engine originally was a 3R/2R engine. If it wasn’t then it can’t change from 3 rail to 2 rail so no point in having the switch. Case in point the OP’s engine was PS1 so it doesn’t have the ability to change from 3 rail to 2 rail so no point in having the 3R/2R switch.

Thanks Phil. I am just learning about this stuff and it seemed like a logical start to start simple with the troubleshooting. Thanks again!

Tom

@Krieglok posted:

Thanks Phil. I am just learning about this stuff and it seemed like a logical start to start simple with the troubleshooting. Thanks again!

Tom

You're welcome Tom.

Thanks for the feedback!

Is Harmon Yards a train repair service somewhere? Sorry, I'm not familiar with it or with Pat.

Can the wheels of MTH steam engines be take off? Or are they permanently attached? Also, are they made of a malleable material capable of bending back to shape without breaking?

Alternatively, I suppose a brand new pair of wheels would be required. Tracking down this specific wheel might be difficult...

EDIT

Interestingly enough, upon additional research it seems this particular engine is prone to this issue. Others on this forum (and other sites) seem to have the same problem with their Railking Hiawatha Hudsons.

MTH Hiawatha drivers flaking | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum

wheel sets needed | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum

And even a youtube video of this exact engine with this exact same problem:

MTH Wheel Rot Hiawatha Project Fail

The consensus for these issues on this engine seems to be "Zinc Rot". And the solution involves replacing the entire drive chassis, something that I assume would be difficult to locate (especially since MTH is out of stock on the part) and expensive to procure (since the alternative is to buy a whole new Hiawatha to swap the chassis into my PS-3 upgraded version)...

I might be out of luck here

As others have said contact Harmonyards.

Most Rail King engines share many components to keep the cost reasonable. Sometimes you have to think outside the box on these things. Your drive block is not available for your Hiawatha. Which would be the chassis, axles and wheels. What you may need to get up and running. Do a search on the MTH parts site and enter Hudson. You will see a few Rail King Hudson’s on the list. Some things that are not available. May have a unique painted or different type of wheel. But otherwise is the same as another model. The chassis and many parts may be the same. I just did a quick visual check. A C&0 Hudson chassis looks close to my eye to the Hiawatha and is available at a pretty reasonable price. If you research enough parts you can probably know what will work but what other parts mate to it.

You have to decide how much you want to put into this project. The Proto 3 board can always be used on something else. You may find parts that will work for you but may not be correct detail wise. It pretty much comes down to what you want to put into this project money wise and is it worth doing and not having a correct model. But a running one.

@VonFrank posted:

MTH Wheel Rot Hiawatha Project Fail

The consensus for these issues on this engine seems to be "Zinc Rot". And the solution involves replacing the entire drive chassis, something that I assume would be difficult to locate (especially since MTH is out of stock on the part) and expensive to procure (since the alternative is to buy a whole new Hiawatha to swap the chassis into my PS-3 upgraded version)...

I might be out of luck here

Pat (Harmon Yards) is an incredibly talented machinist. He has numerous threads on this forum showing how he has repaired many locomotives. He is one of the few guys in our hobby that do this sort of work. He is a blessing and we are lucky to have him.

If it is only the two front drivers than I am sure he could cut off the tire on the two front drivers and machine a new tire for each driver that would be true or replace the entire driver/tire if need be. In the 2 rail world you can buy a driver but it comes without a tire and the tire has to be machined properly for the locomotive.  I don't know what the costs would be and as Dave C. said only you can decide if it is worth it. Of course if you could get a new chassis from MTH of from a dead locomotive that would definitely be easier and maybe cheaper. One thing I would worry about is I would not want a another chassis from the same locomotive (same part number) in fear that the zinc rot could rear its ugly head on that chassis.

@Dave_C posted:

As others have said contact Harmonyards.

Most Rail King engines share many components to keep the cost reasonable. Sometimes you have to think outside the box on these things. Your drive block is not available for your Hiawatha. Which would be the chassis, axles and wheels. What you may need to get up and running. Do a search on the MTH parts site and enter Hudson. You will see a few Rail King Hudson’s on the list. Some things that are not available. May have a unique painted or different type of wheel. But otherwise is the same as another model. The chassis and many parts may be the same. I just did a quick visual check. A C&0 Hudson chassis looks close to my eye to the Hiawatha and is available at a pretty reasonable price. If you research enough parts you can probably know what will work but what other parts mate to it.

You have to decide how much you want to put into this project. The Proto 3 board can always be used on something else. You may find parts that will work for you but may not be correct detail wise. It pretty much comes down to what you want to put into this project money wise and is it worth doing and not having a correct model. But a running one.

This is good advice! I went through MTH's parts site and checked every Railking Hudson. The actual part for my engine is DF1200020A:

All visually similar parts seem to be out of stock except for this one which is designed for a Pacific, but is also listed as the correct part for the C&O Hudson, as you mentioned.

With the exception of the wheel color (which I prefer black anyway) they seem to be identical as far as I can tell. This might be my best chance, but I'm still not 100% sure if it will fit. Also, I'm not sure if this part is new enough not to have the rot as well? Hopefully so.

@Hudson J1e posted:

Pat (Harmon Yards) is an incredibly talented machinist. He has numerous threads on this forum showing how he has repaired many locomotives. He is one of the few guys in our hobby that do this sort of work. He is a blessing and we are lucky to have him.

If it is only the two front drivers than I am sure he could cut off the tire on the two front drivers and machine a new tire for each driver that would be true or replace the entire driver/tire if need be. In the 2 rail world you can buy a driver but it comes without a tire and the tire has to be machined properly for the locomotive.  I don't know what the costs would be and as Dave C. said only you can decide if it is worth it. Of course if you could get a new chassis from MTH of from a dead locomotive that would definitely be easier and maybe cheaper. One thing I would worry about is I would not want a another chassis from the same locomotive (same part number) in fear that the zinc rot could rear its ugly head on that chassis.

Good to know! I'll definitely contact Pat about this and get his advice. Thanks! 😁 If I'm lucky, Pat might know of that Pacific chassis will fit in the Hiawatha Hudson.

It will be a bit of money to get up here to Canada ($75 USD, + $10 base shipping price + whatever extra for international + the dreaded import fees), I'm probably looking at over $200 CAD all in... But still cheaper than a new engine.

If that chassis isn't an exact match maybe you could buy it and just switch the 3 drivers on to your chassis? Just a thought. I am sure Pat will tell you the most economical way to fix it.

I am surprised the person doing the upgrade did it without telling you about this issue.  The Hia had this problem.  Chassis swaps will work, you just need to ensure motor mounts same way and look closely at the trailing truck boss areas, there are differences in some of the chassis.  After that everything is transferred over.  G

You can send a message to info@mthpartsandsales.com and ask if the drive block for the Pacific is truly mechanically the same as what you need for your Hudson.  Clearly, that's what I'd do before ordering it.  As for the import fees, it it really that expensive to bring a $75 part in?  I've sent stuff to Canada and while it was way more than shipping in the US, it wasn't prohibitive.

I want to provide an update to this, and thank everyone who helped out with their advice and networking.

I contacted Pat. He was able to send me a new chassis, and the matching motor (since the gear in the new chassis was different than the old one). I completely dis-assembled the old engine, reassembled it with the new components, and it runs beautifully! 4 years of waiting, and I finally have my engine back. Now with PS-3! 😁

I do have a question about grease though.

Since it is a brand new chassis and motor, they were completely grease-free. I added some Labelle 106 to the worm gear, and the chassis gear. I also squeezed some into the lower "grease" port on the chassis before finding a screw that fits the hole to seal it up.

The question is: How much grease should I add? Should the greasebox be filled completely? Or only a light amount? The last thing I want is gear wear on this new chassis.

Thanks!

Don't be stingy with the grease, but it's not necessary to totally fill the gearbox.  It try to make sure plenty is actually on the worm and worm gear.