PS1 ABA power question

The amperage is from the lights in the passenger cars. If you also have the smoke units on, that number doesnt seem *too* high. A little bit, maybe, but not too out of line. Consider converting the passenger cars to LED lighting. That will drop the load substantially.

If the amperage is your basis for the strain, I would try running them with a long string of freight cars and see if anything changes.

I can pull 9 lighted 18" passenger cars with almost any of my locomotives, so your ABA having trouble with seven sounds like you have some issues!  As mentioned, if you're including the lighted passenger cars, that current seems fine.  However, needing 19 volts to run that consist sounds like a lot.

Well, I'd start with the classic solutions, cleaning and lubrication of the gear train, wheels, and pickups.  How does it run and what current does it draw with no cars?

Can you tell us the specific model? Is this the A-B-A with the B unit unpowered?  I have one of those here.

I believe you may be able to run the lead A unit by itself, how does that fare without the other two units?  Time to divide and conquer, because clearly there is some problems.

I think that's the key question.

I'd do a little research following up that question:

- What does it draw in neutral at 19V - this is mostly the current for the lights in the cars.  I'd determine that first.

- Then, I'd run the locos alone.  I'd run each indidviually too and check it runs well.  It one dragging (happened to me with an old MTH F3 set (ATSF, very early PS1) one of motors in them just started not really providing much power - it could be, but had to be, dragged along.

Lee has laid out a good plan.  I think one of the motors is the issue.  Can be bad, disconnected wire, loose mounting screw that causes motor gear binding, et...  Or the harness is not connected well and the trail A is not sequenced correctly and or dragging also.  It should be obvious watching the truck wheels as you apply power.

Run the A by itself.  PS-1 should move at a good clip at 10Vs.  No need for 19V, it should be screaming at that voltage.  G

Well, I believe I did mention running the A unit by itself some time back...

I have a PS-1 ABBA with only the one A unit powered pulling 7 18" passenger cars and it does not have  a bit of trouble handling it. I am using Z4000 transformers but I never paid attention to what it was drawing............................Paul

Here are the results of my tests:

Assuming that these engines DO NOT have smoke the neutral current draw for engines alone seems high.  The A unit should start moving at a nice speed at 10V. In neutral the amps should only be around 1 amp for a single engine. Does this have number board and MARS lights?

What does the Trail A draw by itself in neutral?  That should let you know what the lighting draw from the CV board is.  What does the Lead A draw by itself in neutral?

May want to remove shell from lead A and rotate motor by hand to see how they respond.  Make sure nothing rubbing against Flywheel causing friction, same for the powered trail engine.  I would remove motors and ensure the internal worm gears are well lubricated.  Then retest.  G

Well if smoke is on (both units?) then it may be correct.  You have 2.1 amps of passenger lighting.  Then the friction of pulling those cars.

What is the current draw on the engines with smoke off or was the test with smoke off?

I would see if lubricating all the passenger car trucks and then the Engine gear boxes improved performance by allowing lower voltage and some what less current draw.

I would subtract the smoke unit current, CV board light current, and passenger car light current to help roughly determine what the motor are drawing to pull your consist.

I would be concerned with 5-6amps being pulled through the engine pickup wires long term and you certainly want to ensure your motors are not drawing excess current on the PS-1 bottom board.  I believe the diodes are 6 amp diodes.  Anything you can do to reduce the motor current will be benefical to your engine long term.  G

In many cases I'd be tempted to just let it go - maybe this train just does this, although I will say i never run a train over 18 volts, period.  But maybe this train needs it.

First, your loco sounds very much like my Lionel ATSF anniversay set from 2000.  ABBA with four Pullmo motoirs and seven lighted cars.  It needs at least 13 volts to wake up and want to move but 15 volts to get going but I never run it over 18 - about 9 amps.  I was assuming you locos have can motors but if Pullmors it is not acting that different than mine. 

Do you have the ability to measure temperature easily?  I have small hand-held infrared temp "gun" that I use to measure temp on locos, etc.: point, pull the trigger and where you see a red laster spot is the pointr where you get a temp reading in a little window on the gun. Nice.

Typically I see a "hot spot" near the motors and e-boards on a diesel (with can motors) of about 6-8 deg F.  More than 12 and I'd be worried.  Pullmor motors run warmer - maybe up to 15-18 deg rise if worked hard.   

If one of the powered units is hotter than the other after running for, say, fiv e minutes, then that is the problem. 

Sorry I can't help more.

It does have can motors.  Seems to run fine, just takes a lot of voltage to get it going.

OK, I just busted out one that's in the queue for conversion to command, but it's currently a PS/1 A-B-A with both A units powered.  It's a Premeir 20-2198-1 Reading F-3 set.

At idle with all units on the track, .8 amps is typical.  It varies from around .75 to .85, I'm assuming because of dirty track, I haven't cleaned it lately.

Running with 12V, it appears to be doing a scale 40-45 MPH based on a PS/2 locomotive I put on the track and ran around to estimate speed.  At that speed and track voltage, it running right around 3 amps.

I didn't try it with any cars, but at 18 volts, it practically flies off the track and is drawing a bit more than 4 amps.

I don't see any reason why you'd see significantly different results than that with a properly working locomotive.  The running gear and electronics are probably very similar.  I don't have smoke, so I'd turn that off to do any comparisons.

John's results are normal.  I would connect the AA upside down and power up and see what the current draw is and also see if all 4 trucks start together and at what amps.

Does this have a lot of run time?  Motor's do go bad.  I think you will see heat damage to the circuit boards if run at this level.  Unless you have a Volt/amp meter accuracy issue.   G

I tend to agree with gunnerrunjohn.  Hard to explain both the high current at neutral and the need for such high voltage when you have can motors.  If you can turn off any smoke units you could do that and check if, for some reason, yours is particularly hungry - maybe a resistor went out, but . . .

I will stick my neck out here and state I'm certain something is not right here: at neutral, you reported 2.6 amps at 18 volts for an ABA set with can motors.  That's 47 watts, which frankly is a lot of even a train that is moving and pulling a reasonable consist (but not lighted cars).  Where is all that power going?  Whereever it is going, it can't be a good thing.  Most of it will end up as heat, so feel for it or use a heat sensor to find out.  Or, just run it 'til it fails and then fix it.  Problem is, at 19 volts, you are putting a lot of stress on some other parts that probably aren't wrong - yet.

What is the voltage and amps at the track instead of the transformer?

FWIW, I was measuring the current on the track feed (same everywhere), and the voltage across the tracks for my tests.

I realized that Jim, just thought I'd clarify what how my readings were made for comparison.