PS3 drawbar driving me crazy!

What I don't understand is that the MTH HO scale PS3 steam locomotives are able to use a two conductor drawbar, while the O gauge PS3 steam locomotives need a six wire drawbar?  Aren't the electronics the same between HO and O PS3 systems?  Or did MTH split the circuits (motor control in the loco and sound in the tender) in the locomotives and tenders in the HO scale models, thus reducing the need for the extra four wires that the O gauge steam locomotives need?

Stuart

Walt, tired of seeing you get your butt kicked by that silly drawbar.  Can you post a good photo of the offending assembly? There HAS to be an easy fix for it that you can do yourself. Also, how easily do the cars you are pulling roll on the track? If there is an area where they snag or are otherwise harder to pull you might be hitting the bar with a heavy load that is adding to the problem.

Scott, thanks for the sympathy vote .  I'm sorta tired of posting about it!  I wasn't going to but I know that I've learned things by reading posts from others where they discuss a problem, so I'm hoping that me discussing my woes benefits others as well.

The disconnect happened even when there weren't any cars being pulled!  Just the tender and engine.

Hopefully I have more patience today and will see if there's anything I can do over and above just re-connecting it again.

- walt

On my PS3 the tech who fixed it added a little epoxy to the cab end connection which has been trouble free ever since. Also, while I was on a "squeak" hunt I undid the screw that anchors the cab end connection and saw a lot of slop in that area and added a washer. I seem to recall something about that in an earlier post.

I'll keep that epoxy idea in mind but I don't think I would trust doing it myself!  One slip up and who knows.

Hopefully I see some way to help keeping it from dis-connecting again.  Or maybe I'll just get lucky and it never will again!!! yeah, sure.

- walt

Walt, 

I purchased the Imperial B&O 0-6-0 with the tether drawbar and purchased the Imperial M1A with drawbar that I returned to my dealer for a refund on account of non-stop drawbar issues. 

With the 0-6-0, I too had it fall out on tinplate track after a few minutes. I took a plastic "zip-tie" tie wrap gizmo and wrapped it around the socket on the tender and plug coming from the engine when everything is engaged and ready to run. Pulled it tight and it runs great. I did that over the summer and here we are in late November, still running with no drawbar falling out. I'll try to take a photo later. Works great. 

Matt:

While I'm not happy that you too experienced this issue, I guess it's nice to know, on my side, that this is not a unique situation/problem with my particular engine.

When I get home today I'll keep your solution in mind.  Thanks for offering it!

- walt

Matt: I honestly can't figure out how you could have done that!  My compliments though since you did!

When I was putting the connection back together yesterday I got out a 'zip-tie gizmo ' planning on doing that.  I could not figure out a way to fasten down the part with all those wires attached to it.  At first I thought I would run the tie thru the wires but there's no way that would happen since the wires are tightly bunched.  There's really not enough of a lip on the connector to reliably try to tie it above the lip.

If you get a chance would you mind commenting on how the heck you did it????  You mentioned taking a photo.  Would you mind trying that too?

thanks - walt

So sorry to hear about your drawbar issues. I was looking at the MTH 2014 catalogue, thinking I should replace my tethered engines with drawbar ones. 

I think I'll wait a bit longer!

Hey Walt...here is a photo. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner...had a date with the leaf blower this morning and will continue after lunch into the evening! Lousy iPhone photo but if you want better, I can pull out the digi and snap a better one. 

I've had it like this since June or July I think. Haven't disconnected it. Ran it at a number of shows, National Capital Tracker modular layout (see us at York in April in the black hall) which has lousy track work usually and it hasn't skipped a beat. Some engines are a bit different in the plug/socket arrangement. I've seen some way out in the middle of the engine and tender and I've seen some sockets stuffed practically in the front tender truck. 

Patent pending on the idea...I could make a fortune...

 After visiting the grandkids last night, it looks like I too will need to look into this. I have seen them mishandle the engine and I think they actually wrestled with the engine and tender, wearing out the connection over who gets to play with it. Now it does not click together anymore and I think it's actually working loose.

 I'm tempted to order a new receptacle for the engine side and move the layout up high where the engine won't get disconnected anymore by the young kids. Maybe, I'll need to go to an older tether connection??

I had one MTH ps3 engine with the the draw-bar issue....which still stops my train to this day.  I'll buy nothing but used Ps2 tethered steamers from now on....

Matt: thanks.  BUT.... that's not the connection that I'm having an issue with.

There are actually 2 connections: one connects the engine and tender (like what you showed) and the other is hidden underneath the cab in the engine.  For that 2nd one, where the drawbar ties into the engine, there is a connection right there that has a bunch of wires tied to it that runs into the boiler.  To get to it I have to remove a part from the cab and it's a cramped situation to get adult fingers into.

It's that 2nd one that keeps coming apart.

I did have the one come apart that you showed.  I blame it on the pin that fits into the whole in the drawbar being too short.  Mine doesn't extend up above the top of the hole and just barely makes it to the top.  I don't think it's a good enough design since the pin could be higher and more reliable.  You solution will take care of this problem, so I'll at least be able to resolve one of the 2, even though it's not the more severe of the 2.

As always, thanks - walt

I have a Premier Pennsy L1s 2-8-2 with the frist tetherless drawbar.  I've never had any issues with it.

What I find interesting is that when MTH first came out with the tetherless drawbar back in 2007 for PS2 there weren't any issues with reliability.  The only difference in the design between the PS2 and PS3 drawbar is the number of pins.  Ten in the PS2 and six in the PS3.  Mayby the larger connector in the PS2 drawbar makes it hold better than the smaller connector on the PS3 drawbar.

Stuart

I moved my Christmas set to trackage with min 31" curves.  In about 45 minutes of total run time split over maybe 4 or 5 sessions, the connection that I am having an issue with came undone 4 times.

There's got to be some explanation or solution.  Luckily for my mental health others have said, across my numerous rambling threads here and on the tin-plate forum, that the disconnection is NOT unique to me or this particular engine.

I have the Blue Comet with the drawbar and it has NOT come disconnected, not even once.   Whether it has the same design with the hidden connection under the cab or not, I don't know.  But the pin that holds the drawbar connected to the tender is long enough to poke up thru the hole.  That's what I'm using as a comparison when I say that they pin on the Christmas drawbar isn't long enough.

thanks - walt

Walt,

There's something I'm not following here. You said the pin that goes through the hole in the drawbar barely clears the top of the drawbar. All of my engines with that drawbar system have pins that go DOWN through the hole. Am I misunderstanding what you wrote or is it a diff. system?

Roger

The PIN definitely goes UP thru the hole.  The metal piece that it is attached to secures to the bottom of the tender, below the drawbar and drawbar connection.

- walt

Wow, that's completely upside down from my two. Are you sure that's the proper orientation for that engine? I just went downstairs and checked my two engines with that drawbar. The big tender "pin" goes DOWN through the drawbar. Maybe a call to MtH this afternoon is in order to find out if yours is in correct orientation.

Roger

WOW Roger, you sure have piqued my curiousity.  I don't think it could go the other way.  Hard to imagine though that they could have fastened the bar that the pin is part of incorrectly but who knows.

I'm going to put a shout out to Allan Miller since I know that he has this set too.

thanks

walt

Somebody please take a picture so folks will know what the heck you're talking about in terms of those tether connections.

I have the same engine Walt is referring to  (Christmas tinplate), and mine is up and running smoothly on my under-the-tree layout at home.  I don't plan to disconnect it to take photos because I leave all my "tetherless" locomotives permanently connected once they are set up and running properly.  I may be overly cautious, but I don't have a lot of faith in the long-term durability of those rather fragile looking drawbars and related connections if they are connected and disconnected repeatedly.

Allan: thanks - ignore my email request!!!!

But I'm assuming that you are in agreement that the pin goes UP thru the drawbar?  You shouldn't have to disconnect anything to see it.

- walt

I'll see about taking an image.

- walt

Here are 4 images.  I used Matt's theory, applied a bit differently, to help hold things together.

- walt

You would think with Tin Plate engines the classic design would be more appropriate, easier to handle,  and more rugged. If it ain't broke don't fix it would apply here.

I never looked so closely or thought so much about it, but by studying the pictures to see if the images are clear, it struck me that they might have installed the bar with the pin upside down.

The pin pointing upward, the one thru the drawbar, is CONSIDERABLY shorter than the one pointing downward!  When I get home I'm going to look and see if I can unscrew it from the tender and flip it so that the longer 'pin' is pointing upward!  Maybe there's hope!

Allan, if you see this, can you look at yours and compare?

thanks - walt

I don't even have to be home to tell you mine looks just like yours, Walt, and I, too, wondered why so much of that connecting pin is below the frame when it really seems like it should be sticking up more.  Ditto for the round pin in square hole.

If I get a chance next week, I'll see if I can learn more from MTH, but in the meantime perhaps someone else here--one of the Authorized Service folks--can provide some input.

So far, my new RailKing 19th Century Ten-Wheeler has performed flawlessly. Though I may reconsider buying MTH's new Premier Blue Comet if something like this happens again...

I examined the 'bar' that the pin(s) is/are connected to.  I wanted to see if I could unscrew it and turn it upside down so that the longer pin pointed up.  I can see that the opposite end of that bar is attached (screwed on???) to the underbelly of the tender.  A couple of things stopped me from doing it though:

1) I don't know if it's a screw or a nut/bolt.  If it's a nut and I undo it, I won't be able to put it back together without disassemling the tender and who know what the inside space looks like.  I wouldn't dare leave a nut flying loose on the inside knowing the electrical damage that it could cause.  If I knew it is a screw then I would be braver about it.  For purposes here, I'll call it a screw even tho' I don't know that it is.

2) there's some kind of, I don't know how to describe it, colored "stuff/goo" under the screw.  makes me wonder if it's some sort of adhesive.

3) I can't easily get to the screw - it's "protected" by the truck.  The truck isn't just 2 axles and the rest open.  It's got components that make getting to the screw almost impossible without taking stuff apart, which I'm reluctant to do not knowing if I can flip the bar upside down or not.

Anyone know what this 'screw' is: screw or bolt?

thanks - walt

P.S.: My Blue Comet has a mostly square pin and it's a nice snug, not tight though, fit.  This pin on this red engine, being so short and not a snug fit, probably explains why the connection between the drawbar and the tender has come undone a few times - did you notice the string that I tied to help keep it in place.  BTW: it seems to be staying together now that I've tied it but I don't have a lot more run time on it to say it's a good fix.

Walt,

Call MTH after 12 so you can speak with a tech. They'll tell you exactly what you can do(if anything) about that pin.

Roger

Walt:  I would do as Roger recommends, and call MTH.  I would not take anything apart.  The connection on my Christmas locomotive appears to be holding just fine, although it's only running on an O42 circle at the present time.  I may give it a spin on the tinplate layout (FasTrack with a number of switches) over the holiday weekend.

Walt,

Just a thought - the shrink tubing that is used for connecting wires- a short piece of that might fit over the pin and extend it up.  I've also seen hollow brass tubing at the hobby shop that would do the same.  I think your pin is upside down and was mounted that way by accident.  In fact anything hollow that fits over the pin and inside the hole would probably solve the problem.

swanko

Roger, thanks for that suggestion.  And as Allan re-inforced your idea, I'll try.

Todd - thanks for that valuable input: knowing that a techie couldn't figure out how to invert it.  I won't even think about that option now.  And if MTH is going to send me the same setup it isn't worth me going thru that hassle.  You know though, comments like yours re-inforce that it's not just me complaining.  Well, maybe I'm the only one here complaining, but your comment shows that my complaint(s) speak for many.

SWANKO: I thought about that and haven't ruled it out yet.  For THIS YEAR I'm hoping that they string that I tied around it holds it together.  But unlike Allan, since I store all of my stuff in the off-season, I don't think I can keep it connected and still get it back into the styrofoam cradle in the box.

- walt

Walt,

I looked at my  tender and the pin is not upside down because it it spring loaded, it just is not long enough. I have not had any problems with mine coming apart but looks like the pin certainly could be longer. If it was my tender I would take the tender piece off and slightly bend it upwards. The best solution would be to add a 1/32" round piece to the top of the pin. I think  tying with a string is  your easiest solution.