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@ed h posted:

The TP&W set from 1980, although it contained track and a transformer, it was considered a collector set. First modern era reissue of the Allis Chalmers car and also the manual operating gantry crane.

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When TrainWorld was on Ave. M in Brooklyn, they did a lot of set breakups, and this was one. I got the Allis Chalmers car (since gifted to someone her on the forum) and the gantry crane which, since it had no box, is still sitting (rather dusty) in the basement. I may eventually dust it off and find a place to display it on my layout.

@palallin posted:

ALERT: Long Post.

So, I have briefly told the story above that, Christmas of 1976, my grandparents took me to the store to buy my Christmas present.  It was to be a train, an entire set.  (We ended up at JC Penny purchasing a TYCO Chattanooga Choo-Choo somewhat contrary to my desire, but Grandpa's heart--if not his sense--was in the right place.)

The first place we stopped was Sears (back when Sears was a retail giant and still presented a full line of toys at its bigger stores).  This visit was late, late in the season, and the shelves were largely stripped.  Oh, there were some separate-sale rolling stock, some accessories, but no sets.  Nada.

Among the odds-and-ends in a display case, however, were a few individual locos.  Now, I am going to tell you what I saw.  I am also going to tell you why others say that I didn't see it.  I will finally give tantalizing hints that I just *may* have been right.

What I saw was a pair of blue-bonnet FA Santa Fe Alco A-units, coupled back-to-back.  Since the 8351 was cataloged that year, no problem so far.  But one of the pair I saw had an open pilot and a coupler so that the AA pair could pull a train.  Lionel experts will tell you that I was mistaken.  The D&H blue-bonnets were sold in that configuration, but the Santa Fes were not.  They mistrust my recognition or my memory.  And I have only a little evidence to support my claim, but this evidence bears some weight with me.

First of all, I had been operating a red Santa Fe FA for four years by that point, and I was familiar with the nose herald and the "SANTA FE" printed on the sides.  I recognized the iconography; it made an impression on me.  I dearly wish I could say that Grandpa bought them when I told them I would be delighted to have them, but they were adamant that I would have a whole set (and so we were off to JC Pennys and a decade-long detour into HO that I can't say I regret so much as I wish that I hadn't missed out on so much MPC when it was new.)

Remember, I have only my memory to rely on (and I will readily admit that the years have taken their toll).  HOWEVER, there is a tantalizing fragment of potentially corroborating evidence from no less a source than Roland LaVoie and Michael Solly's Greenburg Lionel Guide 1970-1991, Vol. 1.  Under the Alco listings (pg. 20) for the 8020 FA, we find:

"(D)  Powered Alco FA-2 unit; blue and silver body.Reportedly part of department store special and, therefore, scarcer than red version.  Reader comments requested."  Values listed are $100 Exc and $150 Mint, and these values suggest there had been enough sales recorded to establish them.  But, "scarcer than red version" is an understatement:  I have not seen such a unit, so I don't know whether it was open or closed pilot:  the red versions were made both ways in the early part of that decade.

Or maybe I HAVE seen such a unit--the number on the engines didn't survive in my memory the way the other markings did.  Perhaps I saw a leftover pair of blue 8020s, or maybe I saw one paired with an 8351, or maybe it's all wishful thinking.  When people ask me where and when I would go if I had a time machine, one of the places/times I list is Sears @ Northwest Plaza in St. Louis County on a late morning just before Christmas of 1976.  Not only could I catch a glimpse of Grandma and Grandpa again, but I could grab hold of what might be a chimera but would certainly solve a mystery for me.

In the meantime--time machines being in short-supply and moderately expensive--I have created a pair of AA 8351s, inspired by my memories.  One is an utterly common, closed pilot, stock engine:

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The other has had the pilot carefully opened and equipped with a front coupler:

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I run them together with the E-units locked out to prevent unwanted tugs-of-war.  Since both are powered, they will pull a very respectable train.  Between them, I run a 8021 b-unit repaint.  It had been sadly customized with a very sloppy paint-job, which I stripped and put back into factory colors.  (Since it is a repaint, I have toyed with replacing the black and red stripes with blue . . . .)

100_1444

Anyway, there is my blue-bonnet Alco tale.  Long-lost discovery or figment of my imagination:  you decide for yourself.  But I will continue believing unless someone lets me borrow a time machine.  And, if anyone spots a blue-bonnet 8020 or an open-pilot 8351, I *really* want to hear from you!

Thank you for sharing this memory, model clarity and pursuit. I’ll keep my eyes open for one. Loved this!

@ed h posted:

@palallin - The topic of a blue and silver 8020 has come up before on this forum, check out page 7 of this post. I was the one who posted the photo from the Greenberg guide on page 6 of the thread.

https://ogrforum.com/...pc-fan-thread?page=7

Check out the reply on page 7 by noted Modern Era guru @PaperTRW.  He does an excellent job of explaining the early MPC Santa Fe Alcos.

Thank you for the reference!  It's neither Yea nor Nay but sorta Could Be.  Another piece of info means a little bit more is known.

Did that pic come from another edition of the Guide?

@JC642 posted:

I recall fans including me were unhappy with Kenner Parker (division of General MIlls) Lionel because these were the first cars to be mail order only direct from Lionel at full MSRP...  Lionel was sold to RK shortly after..

B&A

JC, that’s the B&A set that got me started in Ogauge. I’m sure it was easy to become unhappy as a dealer but I’ve stayed with Ogauge as a happy customer and have spent thousands of dollars with dealers ever since. I’m pretty sure it was offered under the Richard Kuhn ownership. I may be wrong on that.

All of this focus on MPC has derailed my intention to focus on my SG collecting right now.  Not that I am giving it up, but I have decided to acquire--actually, REacquire--a handful of MPC pieces that I once owned, those lettered for my favorite Class 1 roads, Frisco, MoPac, and T&P.

Here's installment one, 9724 and 9219.  Both are MoPac boxcars; the latter the operating version.

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Rumor has it that a 6357 Frisco tank car will soon arrive on the property. . . .

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@romiller49 posted:

JC, that’s the B&A set that got me started in Ogauge. I’m sure it was easy to become unhappy as a dealer but I’ve stayed with Ogauge as a happy customer and have spent thousands of dollars with dealers ever since. I’m pretty sure it was offered under the Richard Kuhn ownership. I may be wrong on that.

One reason I was annoyed with this B&A offering is if you remember, those that owned the just released #773 had to buy two cabooses to get the NYC for their collection.

@palallin posted:

Rumor has it that a 6357 Frisco tank car will soon arrive on the property. . . .

And here it is!

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Fun Fact:  The little lettering in the upper right hand corner reads "Diesel Fuel Loading Only."  The Frisco painted their tank car domes to reflect the type of liquids allowed.  Yellow was in fact used for diesel tankers, so kudos to MPC for scale fidelity!

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1971 Canadian T-1174 Canadian National GP-7 set.  These Canadian sets from 1971-1972 are extremely difficult to find. In almost 30 years of collecting, the only ones I've ever seen are from online auction sites. Interesting in that the set box artwork has a CP Rail NW-2 that would eventually get made in 1976.



T-1174_1

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@ed h posted:

1971 Canadian T-1174 Canadian National GP-7 set.  These Canadian sets from 1971-1972 are extremely difficult to find. In almost 30 years of collecting, the only ones I've ever seen are from online auction sites. Interesting in that the set box artwork has a CP Rail NW-2 that would eventually get made in 1976.



T-1174_1



I think you're talking about these guys?                                                                                      Funny thing,  2 years ago at a train show I tried to sell them,  no takers at $125.00 for both units.   LOL,   I would have taken $75.00.       BTW, its the dummy unit that is impossible to find.  It was a separate sale item   Only a handful were made because few sets were made for the Canadian market.   

BTW,CNprice I thought I would add the price of the dummy unit back in 1972   



CN GP

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Last edited by JC642

Lionel definitely had some very beautiful painted cabooses. Their bay windows and port hole cabooses were something everyone wanted. In the eighties, I set up at train shows. My two favorite shows were the TCA show in Pittsburgh and the Altoona Train Show. I never set up at York. I went there to buy. By the end of the eighties I was done setting up at shows. I was very fortunate to have some wonderful friends. They would help me in any way that they could. They were always there for me. Good times, good memories and great friends. Where did the time go?

Last edited by jim sutter

So here is just some of my MPC collection. I have 3 of the CNJ, 2 of the PC and 2 of the CR. The CN is new in the box, as are the 2 PC's and CNJ's, the GN is a very nice repaint and the IC has been mine since about 74-75. I have run the wheels off of that thing and never replaced a traction tire once. This was the one I had to bring into Madison Hardware for a motor repair and I got a scowl from the repairman in the back when he came  back out after looking at it. He knew I had burnt out the motor on purpose by doing something I wasn't supposed to be doing with it. He also knew the Pullmor motors did not burn out on themselves. I was pulling too much weight with it. To this day no one but him and me knew what I had done and I never told him, but he knew! LOL!!!

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Last edited by ConrailFan
@ADCX Rob posted:

Yes, they were rudimentary, a roller on one truck and an axle wiper on the other for the lights, with body mounted non-operating dummy couplers, and anachronistic wood-beam trucks.

The earliest ones were even more difficult to open to change bulbs, as there were tabs molded as part of the roof casting that snapped into slots in the floor of the car body casting. They have to be cut off with a hobby knife to access the interior.

Non-surgical suggestion - gently push in the tabs and slide in a round toothpick (maybe 2) to keep the tab depressed, then go around the car and repeat the push in tab/insert toothpick(s); gently slide the roof up (it may take a little jiggling) - the roof/window insert should slide out.

@ADCX Rob posted:

Yes, they were rudimentary, a roller on one truck and an axle wiper on the other for the lights, with body mounted non-operating dummy couplers, and anachronistic wood-beam trucks.

The earliest ones were even more difficult to open to change bulbs, as there were tabs molded as part of the roof casting that snapped into slots in the floor of the car body casting. They have to be cut off with a hobby knife to access the interior.



@MTN posted:

Non-surgical suggestion - gently push in the tabs and slide in a round toothpick (maybe 2) to keep the tab depressed, then go around the car and repeat the push in tab/insert toothpick(s); gently slide the roof up (it may take a little jiggling) - the roof/window insert should slide out.

The earliest ones were even more difficult to open and require an extra step to change the bulbs, as there were additional tabs molded as part of the roof casting that snapped into slots in the floor of the car body casting. These tabs have to be cut off with a hobby knife from the underside of the cars to access the interior before pushing in the window tabs.  Here is a view showing four of the 6 extra tabs:




Last edited by ADCX Rob
@ADCX Rob posted:

The earliest ones were even more difficult to open and require an extra step to change the bulbs, as there were additional tabs molded as part of the roof casting that snapped into slots in the floor of the car body casting. These tabs have to be cut off with a hobby knife from the underside of the cars to access the interior before pushing in the window tabs.  Here is a view showing four of the 6 extra tabs:


My brother had a string of later cars that just had the raised windows in the corners of the cars -  those body tabs must have caused a lot of grief when someone needed to change out bulbs...

Last edited by MTN
@breezinup posted:

This is really a beautiful set. Still like to get it sometime, and then convert it to TMCC. Not sure that it wasn't too popular; it seemed more like it was just hard to find. It was the only passenger set in the Fallen Flag series.

The Guide to Lionel's MPC-Era Large Steam Engines – Trainz


Here is a terrific and quite informative link about the Fallen Flag series to a page from our friends at Trainz.

https://www.trainz.com/pages/t...n-flags-sets-1986-93

So if I had to pick my most favorite engine from the MPC era, it would be these. I don't know why, but there is just something about the old Amtrak livery that I always liked. I always wanted these F3's and the only place that I ever saw them was at Chan's Trains in San Francisco. I got these about 32 years ago. I saw them and had to have them. There are really only two modifications I would like to do with these, the first mod would be to drill out the portholes and put windows in them, the second mod would be to remove the Pullmor and make this a dual motor with the addition of a can or Pittman motor. When I am ready to do either I will be asking for advice from everyone here on the how's, what's, should's and could's. LOL! Enjoy.

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@Don Winslow posted:

ConrailFan mentioned converting his MPC model to can motors and I get it - these old Pullmors can be quirky with high starting and operating speeds. But to me that's part of the fun!

Properly tuned, MPC models can be smooth and dependable runners, amazing considering their age!

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these were the 1st locos i bought with i got out of the navy,,even my parents thought they were sharp,,oh those handrails

@aussteve posted:

JC642, which engines do you have that draw 8 amps or more?  I may need to look at mine.

I had a LTI SF F3 with duel pulmors + a B uinit with 2 pulmors that I could never run because it drew 11 amps tripping the  breaker.   Seems like everytime I had two engines w/pulmors on the same loop, together they drew excessive amps  endangering electronics.   Today's modern electronic layouts with high priced equipment requires serious protection.  If I was running  PW and early modern era conventional engines ,I'd do it with a PW ZW and put my mind at ease.

Last edited by JC642
@terry hudon posted:

these were the 1st locos i bought with i got out of the navy,,even my parents thought they were sharp,,oh those handrails

I can definitely relate. The Pennsy Geeps were the first engines I bought when I started buy trains in college. Since I don’t run conventional these days, a couple of years ago I sent my set on to a new home where they would see the tracks regularly.

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And, yes… those handrails were something!!!

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@jim sutter posted:

I believe those Pennsylvania Geeps where the first diesels I bought also.

You got me thinking, Jim… I’m not sure that’s a good thing

I purchased the powered unit in ‘72 or ‘73 - that was 50 years ago… a half a century

At the time, I was going to college in Connecticut and would occasionally take the train back to NYC. My foggy memory seems to recall that the 8357 resembled an engine I saw on my travels. I also have an MTH Amtrak TurboTrain which I also road a couple of times in those days. 🎼 Thanks for the memories… 🎶

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