PULMOR Motors

You cannot convert the engine to DCS unless you replace the PullMor motor with a DC motor that has a flywheel.

That's kind of what I thought, Barry.  Question #2,  are DC fly-wheel motors available which can be used to replace Pullmor motors, or am I ahead of the game to start over vis-a-vis PS2/3 power or TMCC/Legacy power.  I have plenty of  PS2/3 power;  however, I also have even more Pullmor powered locomotives which are seldom run anymore.

Thanks for your quick response to my question and to everyone else whom you help on this forum,  John

GAH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Not the dreaded question about converting a postwar steamer into a can motor unit! Although, Radio Shack (if you have one) sells decent can motors, if you can figure out how to mount them.

Hello "madman"  I love your humor!

No more Radio Shacks here in the booney-booneys of NWPA!

"Mating" the worm gears is the issue at hand.

It kind-of looks like old versus new, and "n'ere shall the gears of either mate!"

I might have more luck retrofitting  an original F3 with the horizontal motors. but that will also will be quite a job!

Frank Timko furnishes, at reasonable prices, can motors with flywheels that can directly replace a Pulmor.  They come complete with shaft and worm for the loco you're converting and are a simple drop-in. 

I've gotten two & converted them to DCS.  A 624 runs perfectly (there's a 2014 thread describing the conversion) at any speed 2 smph and up.  A well-worn 736 has binding issues that weren't noticeable at the higher train speeds necessitated by conventional operation.

If you can figure a way to mount a tach tape on a Pulmor, it can be used with insertion of a full wave rectifier between armature and field windings.

BUT, why would you want to stick with a Pulmor, since with its 3-pole armature it can never be as smooth as a 5- or 7-pole?

I'm not familiar with Frank Timko, but I probably should be!  Can you give me contact info?  I'm probably not the only one needing this information!  THANKS!!!!

Some of the better Lionel engines are worthy of the conversion.  I have a Lionel C&O Yellow belly Hudson that I had converted to a can motor and I put DCS in it.  I also installed a fan driven smoke unit.  Now I have a great looking locomotive with DCS.  Out of the box, that engine was a real crapper as were many of the late AC motors Lionel used.  Things are great today at Lionel with some very high end people running things.  

John, http://timkorepairdepot.com/  I recommend him very highly.  I bought the two motors and "adapters from him and did the DCS installation myself.

If you go this route, do be aware that the DCS system cannot directly trigger Lionel coil couplers; you MUST use a relay or change out the couplers (which isn't easy).

I make one suggestion, especially if you have a steamer.  Put it on a level track, and run as slow as you can at a steady throttle.  See if there is any binding as the wheels rotate.  I have an issue, as I mentioned above, with a very-well-worn 1950 736.  But a 1953 624 diesel runs every bit as smooth as a new loco; having magnetraction and not traction tires, it of course doesn't pull too much.

Great video Marty, thanks.  I want to do the same sort of stuff.  I'm not afraid to dig into a locomotive...I've worked on conventional stuff for years... for myself and for several stores...I was their "train doctor." I've also built amateur radio equipment and done  PS2/3 conversions.  Hands on...no problem!

I need the source for replacement can motors for Lionel's  several Pullmor motors.  Do you [or anyone else  reading this] have contact info for Frank Timko or some other source?

John, I posted the answer just before your post.

ERR makes the AC/DC Commander that will let you run those engines with TMCC.  That is nothing new as Lionel used many AC motored TMCC locomotives.  An AC motor running with DC is a very smooth motor in most applications.

Hi  I would like to hear more about your binding issue with the 736.  Do you thing the problem might be in the clearance between the worm and the gear?  Have you run it with the rods and valve gear removed?  Maybe a bent axle or an out of round wheel?  Thanks.

David, this is a 1950 736, with many miles on it.  Never noticed any problem back when it ran conventional, because one would always have to keep a hand on the throttle and couldn't really run slow.  When I converted it to DCS, I found that below 7smph there was a noticeable bind with each revolution of the wheels.  I have replaced wheel bearings, axles, spur gear and flanged wheels.  Tried shimming the motor for greater worm clearance.  I have run it without the rods, and it might have run better---hard to tell because  with only one axle powered, it loses traction a lot.  Wheels are properly quartered.  I even tried bushing the side rods at the wheels, to avoid slack getting the wheels locked up.  Also had Marty look at it and he could find nothing wrong.  Frank Timko checked the motor and he could find nothing wrong.

Some of the better Lionel engines are worthy of the conversion.

Note the adjective Marty used.  The main reason for converting these two was sentiment---my parents gave me these new---and a challenge.   Dollar-wise, not justifiable with locos of that vintage.

Having said that, if MTH came out with the upgrade kit they've been talking about occasionally, without a tach tape, I'd probably tackle my 1941 #224 for the same sentiment.

Marty, excuse my stupidity... ERR? ...more information please!

Thank you all of you for the graet responses to my post...        John

When I converted it to DCS, I found that below 7smph there was a noticeable bind with each revolution of the wheels. 

My guess: The smoke unit lever is causing the bind. I have seem this problem on a number of locomotives. There is a cam on the front axle that raises the smoke lever.

John,  the company is Electric Railroad Company.  They make boards to convert just about anything to TMCC operation.

http://www.electricrr.com/products.htm

Not so, CW.  I removed it.

Far more experienced voices have spoken here, like Marty Fitzhenry, but like he says, if you haven't familiarized yourself with Electric Railroad products, you should. They're very well known and have been around quite awhile now, are owned by Lionel, and make excellent products.

Installing one of their units to convert an AC powered Pullmor loco to command operation is by far the easiest way to go, and also by far the least expensive. It will run extremely well, particularly with Legacy control. The one thing the AC motor won't accommodate is cruise control; for that an DC motor is required, as you probably know. But the process of going through the time and expense of having a DC motor installed (and then you still have buy and install command control electronics) seems like it should be reserved for only the most special of engines to you, if any. 

For most of the engines you named, it would be most cost-effective to buy a newer version with a DC motor and all the bells and whistles electronics already installed, if you want to have cruise.

RJR posted:

If you go this route, do be aware that the DCS system cannot directly trigger Lionel coil couplers; you MUST use a relay or change out the couplers (which isn't easy).

I'm curious about this statement.  Most of the couplers are very easy to swap out, are you thinking of a specific example?

GRJ, yes.  The 1946 #726's tender (which I used with my 1950 #736), and the 1953 # 624 switcher.  I couldn't figure any simple way to swap.  It was easier to just use a relay, which the DCS coupler circuit can easily activate for long enough to supply track power to the coupler.

OK, really old stuff like that I'll buy.  Most of the time the stuff I get for upgrades I can just pop in a PS/2 coupler to replace the existing one.