Question about passenger train cars

Bagelman,

You failed to state your desired price range. Do you prefer Heavyweights or Streamlined? Depending on your budget MTH would be the most affordable. The next thing would be size of cars you're seeking. In most cases the longer cars demand the higher prices. Your question appears to be a simple one at first doesn't it? There's always variables.

Gentlemen,

   As usual Pappy makes a good point, the size and type of passenger rolling stock that will fit on your layout and run thru your switches is very important, unless you are going to just display these passenger cars.  I have both 0 and 027 passenger cars also,

used on different parts of my layouts, some will even run on 031 track with 031 switches.  I do put numerous people in my passenger cars even my military passenger cars have soldiers in them now, some have a mixture of civilian and military passengers.  Then most times you are going to want to bring Gunrunnerjohn's LED

lighting into play to help keep the power draw down, when you want to run numerous big passenger cars all at the same time.  Lots to consider here, when purchasing.

Then you have new Train of Tomorrow available, now if I was purchasing a new passenger train, the TOT would be at the top of my list.

PCRR/Dave 

MTH Pullman heavy weight passenger Car, with trip trucks, with WWII US Army Soldiers on board, including a rear door guard.

Lionel and MTH both make some nice passenger cars, and they're probably more in the budget for most folks.  While I love some of the GGD stuff, they're really on another planet as far as pricing.  Lionel has more variety in their cars, many of the MTH sets are the same basic design with a different paint job.  They're nice cars, but I'd like to see a bit more variety in body styles.

You should also state what size cars you're looking for, unless you have at least 72" or larger curves, the 21" cars tend to look a bit ungainly on curves. they hang out quite a bit on 72" curves.  I've settled on 18" cars for my RR, they look much better on 72" curves and are also more affordable.

A lot of good advice for you here from the previous posts. If you can find them, K-Line made some very good detailed passenger sets in 15", 18" and 21" lengths. I have the Milwaukee Road 15" streamlined and heavyweight and the Lackawanna 15" streamlined. All of these sets are very nicely detailed and the prices aren't out of this world

I like the MTH passenger cars as they seem to have more variety. 

Lionel has some nice passenger cars but they might have issues with the center rail pick-up assembly shorting out as I had one do on me.

K-Line made some different size passenger cars, about 12 inch long to 21 inch long. The Golden State cars were not as detailed but were around 12 inches long, The Annheiser Busch car was 16 inches long. The K-Line heavy weight passenger & Interurban cars had a problem with their trucks falling apart, at least the first production run had that problem.

Lee Fritz

I bought a set of MTH cars that looked pretty darn good for plastic... HOWEVER the couplers were just junk.  I'm going to convert them to Kadees at some point.  

How large is your layout, i.e. how sharp are your curves?

In my opinion, the best passenger cars on the market, for 3-Rail operators, are the Sunset/3rd Rail/Golden Gate Depot passenger cars.

While the GGD cars are mighty fine, the budget may not support them, and his layout may not either.

You can run 18" cars on your curves, the 21" cars suggest 72" curves.

Bagleman,

   Guns is right for the most part, however it's not just the length of the passenger cars, it's the trucks and the placement of them on the passenger car, that determines which track they actually run on.  Again the best way to determine this, is to have the store run the cars on the same size track & switches that you own, before you take the rolling stock home.  I have some big old Williams 21" cars that really should run on 072 track when you run the entire UP Train, however by placing an 18" passenger car between the big Williams cars, they then move thru the 048 turn, the repeat placement of the trucks ends up being critical, for actual running.

PCRR/Dave 

Size, price range, and whether you want Lightweights (streamline cars) or Heavyweights needs to be addressed before any opinion is worthwhile. Otherwise, everyone id shooting in the dark.

Lionel has made lots of heavyweights in various lengths.  Can you be more specific?  An actual item number would be very useful.

You never did answer the questions about size or budget.

I suggest that that you attend a local train show if there is one in your area.  You will find all kinds of sets from all the manufacturers in every price range.  This will give you a good basis to compare the price, quality, features and road names.  All the manufacturers have made some very good sets.  

You should also probably select which railroad you want to model.  Nearly every collector has a Santa Fe set, for example.  I only know a couple of people who don't have a Santa Fe set.  I live in CA and Union Pacific and Southern Pacific are also very popular.  Almost no one has Norfolk & Western out here.  (I did see a Lionel N&W set running at train show today.)  There are so many choices that it is hard to narrow the field.

Joe

Lots of good advice already given here.

Personally, I wouldn't limit the choice to Lionel or MTH, nor would I limit it just to new cars ordered from a LHS.

K-Line, Weaver, and Golden Gate Depot (3rd Rail/Sunset) also make (or made, in K-Line's) case, cars that were even nicer than some of the MTH/Lionel offerings.  Often, these cars can be found on eBay at excellent prices.

I don't know what Railroad or size cars you are looking for, but some guy has been offering quite a few different 4-car sets of scale GGD heavyweight cars on eBay for about $400.  I keep looking for a B&O set, but can't find these for sale. 

Heck, I even found a 5-car set of SGL Reading brass passenger cars on eBay, a couple of years ago, for around $425.

Jim

While the modernized heavyweights are tempting, what I really want is a set of regular heavyweight in B&O.

Jim

I bought a lot of Atlas' 60 foot trainman coaches and combines. Admittedly they only scale out to about 60 feet long, and they're based on a Chicago & Northwestern design, but the real ones were only 60 feet long. In my eyes, that's a lot better than condensing an 85 foot prototype by chopping it short.

I think the best semi-scale heavyweight and streamlined cars are from MTH. They have interiors, diaphrams, and a decent level of detailing. I use them on my O48 and tighter curves. Prices are far less than scale-size cars.

MTH Rail King & Rugged Rails 13" cars and Lionel 027 cars look very good on 042 curves because they have very little overhang. Cars of this size come in heavyweights and streamline. Types include coach, baggage, combine, diner, observation, short dome and long dome.

Lionel 027 cars deviate from scale in length, height and width. Rail King cars deviate from scale in length.

Rail King cars have a removable interiors containing seats, dining tables, rest rooms, vestibules and aisle-ways. The removable interior facilitates adding passengers. Many of the Lionel cars have opaque film strips with people silhouettes.

Another good feature of using the short 13" cars is you can run more prototypical length trains. My layout is designed to run 7-car passenger trains with consists of 13" Rail King cars.

Mixing Lionel 027 and MTH Rail King cars in a consist does not look good because of the size differences.

Bobby,

Google "Pike size passenger trains", just to show the other side of the coin.  You'll find links to 3-4 car passenger trains that would be around the same length with 21" cars as a 7-car train with 13" cars.

Those who know me know I go for scale sized cars for the most part.  I am partial to GGD cars because the quality justifies the price.  I don't find them out of place running on 072 curves as some do.  It's all about one's imagination after all.  If you really want to see an overhang, I have run a Williams scale GG1 with Atlas 21" Horizon cars on an 042 curve and it ran fine.

However, not all cars are 85' in length.  Heavyweights were typically 80' in length or 72' in length meaning that they were 20" or 18".  My biggest complaint is that most 72' heavyweight coaches ran on AAR 4 Wheel trucks as opposed to the 6 wheel trucks everyone produces.  As has been mentioned Atlas's 60' coaches are prototypical for the CN&W.  PRR built P54 coaches that were 64' or 16" long.  They were used a lot in the steam era for commuter operations.  Most got converted to MP54 self propelled cars, but for a small layout they would be great behind a PRR Atlantic.

Also not all cars in the same consist would be the same length.  The Super Chief is a great example.  The baggage cars were 63' (16") or 72' later (18") while the cars were 85' (21").  Canadian national ran 72' streamlined coaches in commuter service for many years and that included some lounge cars as well.   

If none of this matters to you and it doesn't have to, I find little difference between MTH or Lionel.  They make a good quality generic car that will suit a lot of needs.  Personally I sold all mine to make room for cars that represent the actual trains I enjoy.

However, I do have a dark secret.....I occasionally like to run a prewar Lionel coach at 10" in length in the middle of an otherwise scale train just to see what people say. 

Good point. Let me add that some K-Line cars also are reduced in size "all-around". How well these 2 methods work depends on the engine. Some of those, like the Lionel postwar turbine, have been reduced all-around...so the K-Lines look best. Other engines, like the Lionel postwar K4 are just shortened...so the MTH cars look best.

Virtually all my passenger cars were bought on the secondary market and I have cars from every manufacturer. Right now I think MTH has the best exterior detail on their 18" heavyweights. Lionel has a slight edge on interior detail. Most all the 18" heavyweights look good together though. Best bang for the buck are the MTH heavyweights from late '90s to early 2000s with interiors but no figures. I have gotten 5 car sets for around 25 bucks a car, just add figures for a few bucks more.

Lionel has the best 18" steamliners IMO. Great exterior detail with closer to correct bodies as they offer both Budd and PS where MTH cars are always ACF. Also full width diaphrams when indicated which MTH has never done to my knowledge. 

GGD are the best if you have the room and previously owned versions are much more affordable than the new releases from MTH and Lionel. 

Pete

Rather then decide between MTH or Lionel I would go after the train and color scheme you want.

I have a Lionel Pennsy Tuscan set pulled with an MTH A-B-A, 3E set of diesels.

I also have an 8 car set of Southern Daylight K-Line heavyweight 18 footers pulled by a Williams GS-4.

Lastly, I have the Lionel NYC commuter set.

I will consult the Passenger Train Collector here and look for another colorful or historically important train to add next... Love that Crescent green!

Get the TRAIN you want.

Bagelman would the heavy weight coaches you mentioned perhaps be the coaches that are listed side by side with the lionchief plus steam locomotives?

I just picked up my first Atlas Trainman coaches in NJ DOT paint.  Nice details, lighting is soft and without flickering.  Only quibble is the simulated air hoses drag on the gargraves ties.  

It depends sometimes on who made the passenger cars. I had a set of 21 inch Atlas Amtrak cars that I ran on Gargraves 042 curves but needed an SD-45(3 axles per truck) or equivalent engine for the curves or the first car derailed after the engine.

Have found that some K-Line 18 inch cars run on 036 curves.

Lee Fritz

Unless I'm missing it there seems to be no mention of Williams.  Bargain basement pricing, decent quality and generic looks makes them easy to find and buy.  Thought they were at least worthy of consideration if not what the OP was looking for.

Bruce

Williams are good quality most of the time. The current WBB should be good to go.

There have been a few passenger cars with non-operating knuckle couplers that are terrible to run as the truck assemblies cause derailments, mainly the Crown Edition with fixed or non opening couplers are the problem cars.

One thing I have seen about Williams in the resale market is they don't keep their price. If you paid $250.00 for a passenger set you will be lucky to see $150.00 if you re-sell it.

Lee Fritz

MTH cars are lighter than the others and are easy rollers.  This will be a benefit if you have ascending grades and reverse curves.  As far as realism, do your homework on the prototype, because MTH and Lionel have both done "never-was" cars in paint schemes that never actually existed, and dome cars for railroads that never had them.

I have passenger cars from MTH, Lionel, Weaver, K-Line, and Golden Gate Depot.  I like them all.

RMT also makes great looking 15" passenger cars with interiors and diaphragms on the ends.  I believe it came from the K-Line tooling and I'm extremely happy with them on O36 and wider curves behind traditional size post war locomotives like my 1946 2020 seen in the video below.

There has been a lot of great advice here on this thread and like others have said there are many variables to getting the right cars for your layout and locomotive.

He said he was looking for interior detailing. My first set of passinger cars were Williams. The wiring to the interior lights wasn't worth 2 cents.

First I'm a Lionel guy but my Passenger cars are Rail King with interior which I added sitting people to and my other set is MTH premier which I also add people sitting to and I am very pleased with the out come with both.