Question About Using ERR Cruise Commander (TMCC) with DCS.

Bob,

If I want to run this engine as a TMCC engine via DCS, do I need to install them both, either one, or neither one?

You'll need to install both the antenna and the RUN/PROG switch.

If I install a TMCC Command Base, will the engine still take off or will it sit there until I add it as a new engine?

It will just sit there until you add it to the DCS Remote and press Startup.

Thanks Barry!

What's the purpose of using the Run/Program switch under DCS?  Not having used full-blown TMCC before, I'm not sure what TMCC procedures I should follow and which ones I should ignore when running under DCS.

There's also that one configuration step that can only be accomplished with a CAB-1, as detailed here.

I managed to get a Command Base to hook to my TIU, but CAB-1's were as rare as hen's teeth. So while I'm looking to do TMCC conversions, I held off till ERR confirmed the need for a CAB-1. Now I'm waiting for the new version of the CAB-1 before pursuing any ERR kits.

---PCJ

Railride,

Thanks for the instructions!  Any idea why it says not to use the 100 speed step feature under DCS?

I would guess that the DCS system uses TMCC control mode and not CAB1 emulation.  That being the case, the 100 step mode will be problematic.

John,

I think you're correct.  Is the default for the ERR Cruise Commander 32 or 100 steps?

Another question,

So, I have to setup a TMCC engine first using TMCC, before placing it on a DCS layout?  In order to assign an TMCC engine an address, seems like that's how it needs to be done, according to the link the Railride provided.

AND, if I have 2 TMCC engines (WBB E7 with ERR CC and 3rd Rail with TMCC and Railsounds) I need to set them both up (with different addresses in TMCC), correct?

Bob, note that link applies to the MiniCommander products, I'm not sure if it's also an issue with the AC/DC or Cruise Commander products. I think you can change the TMCC address with the DCS remote, but it's the initial configuration that may be an issue.

I confess to having never configured a TMCC locomotive with the DCS as I have the Legacy and it's simply easier to do it that way.

Perhaps a good experiment to perform at some point.

According to the Electric RR bulliten linked above, as of the present time there is a configuration step that requires a CAB-1 (they don't say if a Legacy remote can be used in its place). This only has to be done once during the install of an ERR TMCC kit. Once the unit is configured, you can assign it an ID number any number of times with a DCS remote.

---PCJ

PCJ,

According to the Electric RR bulliten linked above, as of the present time there is a configuration step that requires a CAB-1 (they don't say if a Legacy remote can be used in its place). This only has to be done once during the install of an ERR TMCC kit. Once the unit is configured, you can assign it an ID number any number of times with a DCS remote

That's because the DCS Remote lacks a SET button.

Clearly, you can do any of the TMCC operations with the Legacy controller, I've installed every different flavor of ERR kits and configured them with my Legacy system!

Barry has the answer, I was struggling to figure why it wouldn't work.

A great update to the firmware for DCS would be to add the SET button for TMCC operations.

So I can assign an engine ID using the CAB-1 (say 39, actual number on engine is 3039), run it a bit using the CAB-1 thru the TIU to see if it works.

Then I decide to add the engine to the DCS remote.  I have 4 other (PS2) engines stored in the remote so when I add this engine it will show as the 5th engine.

I select the engine and run it around using the DCS remote.

If I want to run a PS2 engine using the DCS remote (say I have a friend over), what do I do to be able to run the TMCC engine using the CAB-1?  Is it as simple as picking up the CAB-1 and pressing the ENG button then numbers 39?

Bob,

So I can assign an engine ID using the CAB-1 (say 39, actual number on engine is 3039), run it a bit using the CAB-1 thru the TIU to see if it works.

You don't need the Set button to add assign a TMCC/Legacy engine a new TMCC ID#. You simply add the engine to the DCS Remote with the engine's existing TMCC ID#. If you don't know the ID#, just add the engine as TMCC ID#1 and then used the DCS Edit Engine menu to change it to any TMCC ID# you desire.

Adding and editing TMCC engines does not require the use of the DCS SET button.

If I want to run a PS2 engine using the DCS remote (say I have a friend over), what do I do to be able to run the TMCC engine using the CAB-1?  Is it as simple as picking up the CAB-1 and pressing the ENG button then numbers 39?

Yes, assuming 39 is the engine's TMCC ID#.

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

What does require the use of the set button is changing the TMCC address of the locomotive.

I'm confused about one statement here.

If you don't know the ID#, just add the engine as TMCC ID#1 and then used the DCS Edit Engine menu to change it to any TMCC ID# you desire.

If you don't know the ID of the TMCC engine, how are you going to change it without a set button?  Just editing the engine number in the DCS remote won't do anything for the TMCC engine ID.  It seems you have to know the TMCC ID to use the engine.

John,

If you don't know the ID of the TMCC engine, how are you going to change it without a set button

All I know is, it works.

The commands required are sent by the DCS Remote to the engine while its switch is set to PROG.

Although the DCS Remote lacks a dedicated SET button, it appears it can send the associated command to the engine.

Interesting, too bad they couldn't add a function key to invoke the set button whenever you want, that would allow you to do other programming tasks.

So the TMCC engine ID when under TMCC control is stored in the engine and when under DCS control is stored in the remote?  Or can the engine store 2 different numbers (don't think so)?  Or am I getting the engine number and engine name confused?

Using both systems and trying to keep all this straight is like speaking 2 different languages and the only one I speak (English) seems like a foreign language sometimes!

The TMCC locomotive always has a specific TMCC ID, from 0 to 99, though 99 is a "all units" code to Legacy, so it's not normally used.

The DCS remote also has to know the TMCC ID, just as you do when you use the TMCC or Legacy remote.  That's stored in the DCS remote.

As Barry says, apparently they actually are able to assign the TMCC ID to the locomotive if desired, though you don't have a SET key to do other operations that require it.

Bob,

Like John said.

A clarification:

I went back and reviewed the installation manual for the AC/DC Commander, the Mini Commander EX and Mini Commander 2. The CAB-1 exclusive step is called the "Feature Code". This tells the board whether it is running a steam or diesel loco, so it may enable or disable certain feature sets (smoke unit, cab/marker lights, and/or strobe light). The Mini Commander EX manual doesn't mention the need for a feature code.

 There may be some confusion since the ERR manual calls for it to be set along with assigning a TMCC (engine) ID number other than the default. Setting the Engine ID employs the [SET] button, and this can be done with the DCS remote as I have done for various Lionel and K-Line engines (presumably, if these boards have a feature code, it's already been set at the factory).

The Feature Code setting requires use of [AUX1]+[n] where 'n' is the feature code. This is the step that cannot be accomplished with a DCS remote, if I'm reading the manuals and bullitens correctly.

---PCJ

The ERR Cruise Commander instructions also say to set the "Feature Code".

I was wrong in my previous post about assigning/using 2 numbers.

The TMCC engine was assigned number 39 when it was operated with the CAB-1

When a TMCC engine is added in DCS, after the name of the engine is entered (i.e. SAL E7 3039) the next step is to assign the address to the engine.  When I saw only 3 lines on the screen I "assumed" that I should pick one of the 3, not so.  I had to scroll down (could I press 3 then 9 instead on the keypad?) until I got to number "39" then selected that.  Now both handheld units know the engine is number "39" and I can set one remote down, pick the other up, and run the engine.  This is great stuff!!!

Bob,

could I press 3 then 9 instead on the keypad?

Yes, you may do so.

Great stuff made even better...thanks Barry!

Here's what I would like one of you folks to do:

I have a new Weaver RS diesel (U.S. Army) that is equipped with ERR.  It is just as it came when received from Weaver and has not seen any running at this point.

I want to operate this locomotive with DCS since I use my DCS Remote far more than my Legacy Remote (which actually is DOA at this point).

I have both DCS and Lionel Legacy, and the Legacy base is already connected to the DCS TIU with the appropriate cable.

I would like someone to list, in a comprehensive and simple step-by-step manner, the appropriate steps to go through to get this ERR-equipped locomotive operating properly in the DCS environment.  A simple 1-2-3 description would be much preferred. 

This exercise would be for the benefit of all who want to accomplish the same thing, as well as myself.  When I see an appropriate response, I will put my new locomotive to the test.

I am looking to possibly upgrade some Williams locomotives with ERR Cruise Commanders.  I run DCS on my layout and I'm really hoping that Allan's test yields positive results.  I'm sure I can find a TMCC command base somewhere, or I can wait for the new Lionel base 1L.

Allan,

How about this. From page 38 of The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition:

To add a new PS2 or TMCC engine, use the thumbwheel to scroll to ADD ENGINE and press the thumbwheel to select it

(.....)

To add a new TMCC engine, use the thumbwheel to scroll to ADD TMCC ENGINE and press the thumbwheel to select it

• Use the on-screen keyboard to name the TMCC engine. Scroll the thumbwheel to each character in the name and press the thumbwheel to add the character. Scroll to D on the bottom row, right end of the keyboard and press the thumbwheel to save the TMCC engine's name

• A list of TMCC engine addresses is displayed.

• Use the thumbwheel to scroll to the number of the TMCC engine. Note that this is not the DCS ID# that is assigned by DCS to each engine in the DCS Remote. It is the TMCC engine ID#

• Press the thumbwheel to assign the TMCC engine ID#

• If there is more than one active TIU, a screen will display requesting to which TIU the engine should be assigned. Using the thumbwheel, scroll to the TIU to which the Lionel Command Base is attached and press the thumbwheel to select it

• A message is displayed indicating that the engine has been added to the DCS Remote and the ENGINE SETUP menu is displayed

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

• Use the thumbwheel to scroll to the number of the TMCC engine. Note that this is not the DCS ID# that is assigned by DCS to each engine in the DCS Remote. It is the TMCC engine ID#

• Press the thumbwheel to assign the TMCC engine ID#

That's the part I think confuses a number of folks.

This assumes people already have a TMCC system in place, or they have multiple engines and have assigned a number previously to each engine, OR that they even know each engine is suppose to have a number assigned.

In my case, up till now I only ran my non-PS2 engines in conventional, I didn't have to worry about assigning an engine a number.  All (OK, both) of my TMCC engines, as far as I know, have always been factory set to address 1.  Heck, up until about a week ago I didn't realize my Williams E7 with ERR Cruise Commander was a full-blown TMCC engine (without sound that is, other than the MRC AC Sounder). I thought it was equivalent to my Locosound engines, conventional engines with sound.  I should have known, because the 3rd Rail E7 I received in November 2012 also came with the ERR Cruise Commander (plus Railsounds Commander).

If you've never assigned an address to the engine or engines, then ALL TMCC engines should be address 1, straight from the factory.

My question then is this...if you have a brand new TMCC engine or an engine you are unsure whether or not an address has been assigned, can you assign an address (any address?) from the DCS Remote, or do you have to assign it using the CAB-1 PRIOR to adding it to DCS?

I read nowhere that you needed to scroll down a long list of addresses (99, but the initial screen only shows the first 3) or that simply pressing the buttons (in my case 3 and 9 on the keypad) would do the same thing.

I know some of our answers give only partial truths and not everything the novice (or the uninformed) needs to hear.

I think the missing link is in the previous comment by Barry about using Edit to change the TMCC ID.  What isn't said there is that you first have to switch the locomotive into PGM mode for the new ID to take.

Bob,

if you have a brand new TMCC engine or an engine you are unsure whether or not an address has been assigned, can you assign an address (any address?) from the DCS Remote, or do you have to assign it using the CAB-1 PRIOR to adding it to DCS?

If you don't know the TMCC ID#, pick any number and then, after the engine has been added, use EDIT ENGINE to actually change the TMCC ID# to whatever you want it to be.

John,

I think the missing link is in the previous comment by Barry about using Edit to change the TMCC ID.  What isn't said there is that you first have to switch the locomotive into PGM mode for the new ID to take.

The EDIT ENGINE process will direct you to change the RUN/PROG switch as needed during the process.

Right, I was speaking of this thread.  The book seems to detail it pretty well.  I still want a set key on the DCS remote, maybe the next rev.

Indeed, that is what I was/am concerned about.

Again, I have this brand new Weaver locomotive equipped with ERR.  It has never been on the track to this point.  I want to give it an initial run via my DCS system since my Legacy Remote is dead (really dead...and yes, I did change the batteries).

I needed to know what, if anything, needed to be done with the locomotive prior to going to the "Add TMCC Engine" screen on the DCS Remote.

That business of engine ID numbers displayed on the screen also was new to me.  I had no idea you could scroll down through a list of numbers through 99.  Thought (at first glance) there were only three to choose from.

Allan,

From what I have learned, about the only thing you must make sure of is that your command base is connected via a cable (50-1032 will cover TMCC and Legacy) to the RS-232 plug on the TIU, then connect a wire from the post on the command base to the black output wire going to the track (use the output connection on the TIU).

At this point, when you turn on the system, the engine will detect a signal (watchdog?).  You can then add it to the list of engines already listed via the MENU button.

Bob,

then connect a wire from the post on the command base to the black output wire going to the track (use the output connection on the TIU)

Unless the TIU is an original Rev. G, the Common lines for the individual channels are not internally connected. In that case, you'll have to connect the output wire of the command base to all 4 Common channel outputs, or alternatively connect all 4 channel outputs together.

I hope you're talking just connecting the common of all four channel outputs together!  I'm sure you are, just making sure that others didn't have a misunderstanding.

Yes, Common only.

Alan, you don't have to do anything to the engine prior to adding to the dcs remote. Just add it following Barry's post. You can't do anything anyway if legacy is down.

 Most TMCC engines come with a TMCC address of  1 , but who knows for sure what your engine is.. After naming the engine  and the "D" for done, select TMCC address #1 in the list that comes up. After give the engine the TMCC address , you will find the engine added to the dcs remote but it will be in the inactive list.Bring it out to the active list(select it), and select it again .  Now the big question?..will the engine respond to any command via the dcs remote,  start up? whistle . bell? coupler? If not the engine probably has the wrong TMCC address

, In this case you'll have to edit the TMCC address using the dcs remote, just follow the on screen instructions , If everything goes well and the engine does everything except move, select  the softkey SPD (speed steps) and pick 128 It should move out now.

If you have a TMCC engine called up on the remote, the On/Off button is now the REL button.  How do you turn off the remote without changing to another screen?

Bob,

If you have a TMCC engine called up on the remote, the On/Off button is now the REL button.  How do you turn off the remote without changing to another screen?

You cannot. Just press ENG, TR, SW, or ACC, then power off.

Thanks Barry,

One last (sure ) question, After a TMCC engine is selected from the list, do I need to press the START UP button or can I just go once the engine number appears on the screen?