Question regarding K-LINE (NOT Lionel) TMCC locomotive

@Allan Miller posted:

I have Lionel 6-28839, which is an early Alaska GP-30 with TMCC, Odyssey System, and RailSounds. Has been in its box forever (at least since being purchased years ago), but I decided to add it to my fairly decent roster of Alaska RR locomotives (Lionel, MTH, and even K-Line).

I am controlling all the TMCC and Legacy locomotives with Lionel's CAB-1L and base. All are performing well, except for the aforementioned GP-30, which is running well enough and with all basic functions working, except that it tends to lose its sounds when crossing through many of my switches (all are Ross). It's almost as if the locomotive must be fitted with a battery to "carry" the sound system through such momentary breaks, but since I do not have the engine's operator's manual I can't determine if there really is a battery and, if so, where it is located in the engine and how to get to it. Tried doing a Google search for the manual, but with no luck.

Perhaps someone here has had similar experiences with the same or similar locomotives and can provide some info.

Check the wires to all contact rollers, the shell must be removed to access the battery…….ugly. I have an early Lionel Amtrak dash-8 had same issue……..wires to rollers had no continuity. Check roller to roller and you should find the dud.

Craig

PennCentralShops

Allan, most of my engines are early Railsounds equipped and they do require a 9 volt battery to sustain the sounds over breaks in power. Take the shell off (in diesels) you'll see the 9 volt connector and holder for the battery. In steam most are located in the tender.

John

Allan,

I do believe all the TMCC stuff required a battery.  I have a Santa Fe F3 set from ~'96 that requires a 9 volt battery.  Without it, it works exactly as you indicate.  Just remember to take it out before storing...

Tony

Using the 6-number I could derive from the part exploded pictures your engine does have a battery bracket.

Unavailable

While it may not have a battery, K-Line usually provided the battery connector. Lionel maybe not. At least the motherboard will have a connector for a battery harness.

Pete

Yup! My K-line TMCC diesels have the same battery setup as the Lionels. Same/same...

John

Anyone know how to get to the possible battery location in the K-Line GP38-2? If someone still has the manual for that or a similar model, perhaps it describes how to access the battery.

Also, there supposedly is an Odyssey off/on switch somewhere on the engine. Anyone know where it might be? I darn sure haven't located one.

There is a hatch/cover that pops off the top of the locomotive; the battery connector is underneath. The cover is between the exhaust and the rear cooling fans.

Like other TMCC diesels a charging circuit must be installed when using a BCR.

-John

Also this model does not have Odyssey; to my knowledge this feature was only on Lionel locomotives. I think the motor driver board can be upgraded with the CruiseCommander M.

-John

If this is a K-Line engine made in 2002 I am pretty sure it doesn’t have cruise control. K-Line Cruise came a few years later and Cruise was turned on and off with the remote, no switch.

If you take the shell off and take a photo of the motherboard that the two audio boards plug into we could likely point the connector the battery harness plugs in to. Likely a two pin JST EH.

Pete

@AcelaNYP posted:

There is a hatch/cover that pops off the top of the locomotive; the battery connector is underneath. The cover is between the exhaust and the rear cooling fans.

Like other TMCC diesels a charging circuit must be installed when using a BCR.

-John

Removed the hatch, but sure don't see anything that looks like a battery underneath. Lots of wires, boards, capacitors, etc. in there, but I don't see a battery.

@Allan Miller posted:

Removed the hatch, but sure don't see anything that looks like a battery underneath. Lots of wires, boards, capacitors, etc. in there, but I don't see a battery.

The red and black wire kind of look like part of a battery clip.

@MartyE posted:

The red and black wire kind of look like part of a battery clip.

Very possibly the pair on the right. The ones in the middle of the photo are track power. It should be possible to gently pull on those wires to see if a connector or battery is on one end.

This is typical.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Very possibly the pair on the right. The ones in the middle of the photo are track power. It should be possible to gently pull on those wires to see if a connector or battery is on one end.

This is typical.

Pete

You folks on this forum are absolutely THE BEST! Not sure I would have ever figured this problem with a 20+-year-old new-in-box locomotive if you guys weren't around and participating. My thanks to all of you! Below is a photo of what I found when I gently tugged on those black and red wires:

Is there another hatch that comes off? Cause I can't see anyplace for the battery to sit and I can't see it sitting on top of the boards.

I found an old Q&A site and there was a question from a new K-Line GP38-2 owner about where the battery goes. The answer that was given by someone who owned this engine was that you need to take off the shell to access the battery area.

Referencing the instruction manual for an older Lionel GP38, it says this:

1. Lift up and remove the dynamic brake hatch. 2. Remove the protective cover from the battery harness. 3. Snap the battery harness onto the nine-volt alkaline battery’s terminals. 4. Slide the battery into the battery clip. 5. Replace the dynamic brake hatch.

Note that those instructions reference a battery clip under the hatch. It makes sense that K-Line would have provided a clip or somewhere more appropriate to put the battery rather than just letting it sit on top of the boards, as E-Unit-79 suggested. (Setting a battery with open electrical connections on top of delicate electronic boards makes no sense.) Since with the K-Line there's apparently no battery clip visible under the hatch, and the battery wires and battery harness were stuffed back under the shell in front of the hatch going toward the front of the engine, then it would seem logical (at least to me) that the answer given by the owner is correct, that is, that the shell needs to be removed, and the battery containment area is up under the shell in the area in front of the hatch.

That's what I was getting at. Had to be someplace else it went as looking at picture there was no place for it.

@E-UNIT-79 posted:

That's what I was getting at. Had to be someplace else it went as looking at picture there was no place for it.

Well, my solution may not be the desired one recommended by folks here, but I found that if I placed the 9v battery flat on top of the wires and capacitors at the left side in the posted photo, the hatch cover went back on just fine (without pinching the wire that leads to the fans). If it ends up "cooking" something eventually, that will be no major problem since that particular locomotive is something of an extra on my Alaska RR roster and I can deadline it somewhere or just get someone to replace the guts with something updated (if that is possible).

@Allan Miller posted:

Well, my solution may not be the desired one recommended by folks here, but I found that if I placed the 9v battery flat on top of the wires and capacitors at the left side in the posted photo, the hatch cover went back on just fine (without pinching the wire that leads to the fans). If it ends up "cooking" something eventually, that will be no major problem since that particular locomotive is something of an extra on my Alaska RR roster and I can deadline it somewhere or just get someone to replace the guts with something updated (if that is possible).

Maybe wrap it, the battery, in electrical tape as a precaution?

@Allan Miller posted:

Well, my solution may not be the desired one recommended by folks here, but I found that if I placed the 9v battery flat on top of the wires and capacitors at the left side in the posted photo, the hatch cover went back on just fine (without pinching the wire that leads to the fans). If it ends up "cooking" something eventually, that will be no major problem since that particular locomotive is something of an extra on my Alaska RR roster and I can deadline it somewhere or just get someone to replace the guts with something updated (if that is possible).

Allan, you pretty much have to remove the shell for virtually all battery replacements on any engine.

There is likely a place for the battery in there that will be obvious. Its only 4 screws near the corners.

Pete

Curious, does someone sell a charging circuit designed to add to a TMCC loco so a BCR can be used?

@MartyE posted:

Maybe wrap it, the battery, in electrical tape as a precaution?

I wouldn’t use electrical tape, only because I can’t stand when the stuff unravels and gets gooey gunk everywhere,…..I’d stick the battery in a large hunk of heat shrink, ….you don’t even have to heat shrink it, just shove it in the envelope and let it set there…

Pat

@cnwdon posted:

Curious, does someone sell a charging circuit designed to add to a TMCC loco so a BCR can be used?

Yes, just get a YLB battery from Henning's Trains

https://hennings-trains.shopli...unds-batt-repla.html

No additional charging circuit needed.

@harmonyards posted:

I wouldn’t use electrical tape, only because I can’t stand when the stuff unravels and gets gooey gunk everywhere,…..I’d stick the battery in a large hunk of heat shrink, ….you don’t even have to heat shrink it, just shove it in the envelope and let it set there…

Pat

Or use Kapton tape if you have it. Durable, won't melt, single layer more than adequate