Are there any public transportation railroads, railways and street car lines that run without government financial subsidies? I cannot think of any that could exist without federal / state / local government subsidies.
Without government subsidies, there would be no public passenger trail transportation, only rail freight haulage.
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Bobby Ogage posted:Are there any public transportation railroads, railways and street car lines that run without government financial subsidies? I cannot think of any that could exist without federal / state / local government subsidies.
Without government subsidies, there would be no public passenger trail transportation, only rail freight haulage.
That is because hauling people is NOT profitable! No rail system on planet Earth hauls people at a profit.
Profit is really not a consideration in many countries that have wonderful, modern, high speed, on time trains that efficiently haul people in a safe and comfortable manner. The US largely lags behind the rest of the developed world in modern passenger train travel! Some countries even employ advanced technology such as mag-lev successfully. On a postive note, many US cities are currently adopting light rail, streetcar systems and even commuter lines with local, state and federal funding, so it is a start.
Tinplate Art posted:Profit is really not a consideration in many countries that have wonderful, modern, high speed, on time trains that efficiently haul people in a safe and comfortable manner. The US largely lags behind the rest of the developed world in modern passenger train travel! Some countries even employ advanced technology such as mag-lev successfully. On a postive note, many US cities are currently adopting light rail, streetcar systems and even commuter lines with local, state and federal funding, so it is a start.
One comparison that always seems to be brought up by the "pro-passenger train" people is how well the European passenger trains operate. That is of course correct, however those folks tend to overlook the fact that that beautiful European passenger Tain network, could all be placed inside the state of Texas! The "pro-passenger train" people fail to consider the enormous size of the United States.
So it appears that no passenger rail traffic would exist without government financial subsidies. The next question is, What passenger rail service gives the tax payer the best bang or the buck?
In my opinion, new street car lines answer the question the best. Street car lines are relatively low cost to build, they have track records of causing new entrepreneurial development along their routes, they bring in tourists and they operate on routes and schedules favorable to the public.
That is beautiful. So is it new, or an upgraded antique? Are all Charlotte cars like this one?
edit: a partial answer from Wiki
As of July 2015, the line uses three vintage-style replica-Birney streetcars built in 2003–04 by the Gomaco Trolley Company (Nos. 91–93) and transferred from the former Charlotte Trolley system.[31] However, CATS plans to replace those with cars with modern streetcar vehicles (similar to those used on the Blue Line) when a planned Phase 2 of the Gold Line opens, projected for 2019.[32] Powered by an overhead catenary system, the streetcars have an operating speed of 16 mph (26 km/h). They are air-conditioned and handicapped accessible.[7]
In November 2016, Siemens Mobility was awarded a $40 million contract for six S70 streetcars and associated parts to service the entire Gold Line route.[29][33]
Passenger transport, of any kind, is subsidized. Rubber tire. Steel rail. Airlines. Ships. It may not be as direct as Amtrak, but it is there. Roads without tolls. Airports owned by goverments.....
I do have to give our Class 1 railroads credit. Except for some very localized projects, they run on their own ROW, and make money.
I live in Media, PA, a town about 10 miles west of Philadelphia. We have a trolley running from Media to West Philadelphia, one stop being at a shopping mall (from there, a subway to downtown). We have regular rail service to Philadelphia's main Amtrak station, as well as to downtown stops. Our nearest station is a 12 minute walk from my house. Both the trolley and the rail line cost seniors, like myself, zero. We have a photo ID pass.
Joe Hohmann posted:I live in Media, PA, a town about 10 miles west of Philadelphia. We have a trolley running from Media to West Philadelphia, one stop being at a shopping mall (from there, a subway to downtown). We have regular rail service to Philadelphia's main Amtrak station, as well as to downtown stops. Our nearest station is a 12 minute walk from my house. Both the trolley and the rail line cost seniors, like myself, zero. We have a photo ID pass.
The light rail and streetcar lines are and have always been plentiful in your neck of the woods. I grew up in Northeast Philly and now live in Fort Washington. Compared to your area we are starved for public transportation.
Hot Water posted:Tinplate Art posted:Profit is really not a consideration in many countries that have wonderful, modern, high speed, on time trains that efficiently haul people in a safe and comfortable manner. The US largely lags behind the rest of the developed world in modern passenger train travel! Some countries even employ advanced technology such as mag-lev successfully. On a postive note, many US cities are currently adopting light rail, streetcar systems and even commuter lines with local, state and federal funding, so it is a start.
One comparison that always seems to be brought up by the "pro-passenger train" people is how well the European passenger trains operate. That is of course correct, however those folks tend to overlook the fact that that beautiful European passenger Tain network, could all be placed inside the state of Texas! The "pro-passenger train" people fail to consider the enormous size of the United States.
So why doesn't Texas have convenient rail service like all of Europe?
Farmer_Bill posted:Hot Water posted:Tinplate Art posted:Profit is really not a consideration in many countries that have wonderful, modern, high speed, on time trains that efficiently haul people in a safe and comfortable manner. The US largely lags behind the rest of the developed world in modern passenger train travel! Some countries even employ advanced technology such as mag-lev successfully. On a postive note, many US cities are currently adopting light rail, streetcar systems and even commuter lines with local, state and federal funding, so it is a start.
One comparison that always seems to be brought up by the "pro-passenger train" people is how well the European passenger trains operate. That is of course correct, however those folks tend to overlook the fact that that beautiful European passenger Tain network, could all be placed inside the state of Texas! The "pro-passenger train" people fail to consider the enormous size of the United States.
So why doesn't Texas have convenient rail service like all of Europe?
Probably because they prefer their own automobiles and/or pick-up trucks better.
I have not been on any high-speed trains in Europe, but the few train trips we were on were just OK, and not "better" than Amtrak. They were mainly one hour each way round-trips: Rome to Florence, Rome to Naples, Warsaw to Krakow, and a Baltic seaport to Berlin.
Hot Water posted:Farmer_Bill posted:So why doesn't Texas have convenient rail service like all of Europe?
Probably because they prefer their own automobiles and/or pick-up trucks better.
More like they don't have much alternative.
Farmer_Bill posted:Hot Water posted:Farmer_Bill posted:So why doesn't Texas have convenient rail service like all of Europe?
Probably because they prefer their own automobiles and/or pick-up trucks better.
More like they don't have much alternative.
Not to mention the horrendous increases in taxes to support such a public rail transit system.
The Texas Central is a private company attempting to put a Japanese Shinkansen based rail line between Houston and Dallas. There are many arguments on both sides I won't elaborate on as to leave the politics out of it. Feel free to Google for yourself.
Europe has better rail, we have better roads. It's all a trade off.
Yes, definitely a tradeoff.
Hot Water posted:Bobby Ogage posted:Are there any public transportation railroads, railways and street car lines that run without government financial subsidies? I cannot think of any that could exist without federal / state / local government subsidies.
Without government subsidies, there would be no public passenger trail transportation, only rail freight haulage.
That is because hauling people is NOT profitable! No rail system on planet Earth hauls people at a profit.
What about the Russian Railway ?
Hot Water posted:Bobby Ogage posted:Are there any public transportation railroads, railways and street car lines that run without government financial subsidies? I cannot think of any that could exist without federal / state / local government subsidies.
Without government subsidies, there would be no public passenger trail transportation, only rail freight haulage.
That is because hauling people is NOT profitable! No rail system on planet Earth hauls people at a profit.
I think there needs to be a distinction between public rail transportation, which will be subsidized in some way if it is truly public, because if it is government run/owned then it receives by its very nature public funding and support for its construction, infrastructure, and operation aside from any passenger ride fees. Any of our metro subways or commuter rail service fits this bill, New York, Washington, Boston, Chicago, tri-rail etc. the list goes on and on.
For private passenger services, not counting tourism or scenic railroads, there are probably no established ones in the US. This might change however here in South Florida. All Aboard Florida, a subsidiary of the Florida East Coast railroad is trying their hand at passenger service with Bright Line and now Virgin has partnered with them so they are becoming rebranded as Virgin trains USA.
We will see how it goes. I've ridden bright line and it is nice, but it remains to be seen whether history will show it to be a short term novelty or a long term profitable venture, or ends up becoming a government takeover which is unlikely as the lines, facilities, and equipment are owned by Florida East Coast RR and Virgin.
Below are some long reads but explains the train. Some have started calling it the Darwin Express here in South Florida because in its very short time it has had several pedestrian and vehicles collisions at crossings; some intentional suicides by train; some accidental. It is a high speed train and people misjudge a 85 mph train versus what they are used to in terms of speed for Florida East Coast freight trains they are used to seeing on that line. The line runs through some very congested downtown areas en-route from West Palm Beach to Ft. Lauderdale and then Miami. It has plans to expand to Orlando, then possibly to Tampa, and later maybe even a spur to Jacksonville.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brightline
http://www.govtech.com/fs/infr...-Private-Gamble.html
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/n...-20181116-story.html
mackb4 posted:Hot Water posted:Bobby Ogage posted:Are there any public transportation railroads, railways and street car lines that run without government financial subsidies? I cannot think of any that could exist without federal / state / local government subsidies.
Without government subsidies, there would be no public passenger trail transportation, only rail freight haulage.
That is because hauling people is NOT profitable! No rail system on planet Earth hauls people at a profit.
What about the Russian Railway ?
You mean the one that's completely state-owned?
I've ridden bright line and it is nice, but it remains to be seen whether history will show it to be a short term novelty or a long term profitable venture, or ends up becoming a government takeover which is unlikey as the lines, facilities, and equipment are owned by Florida East Coast RR and Virgin.
Joe Hohmann posted:I've ridden bright line and it is nice, but it remains to be seen whether history will show it to be a short term novelty or a long term profitable venture, or ends up becoming a government takeover which is unlikey as the lines, facilities, and equipment are owned by Florida East Coast RR and Virgin.I've ridden Bright Line last year, Ft. Lauderdale to West Palm. This year we may try the Miami trip. What I don't understand is why they plan on running tracks to Orlando, when there are already 2 trains going each way via Amtrak to West Palm and south. I would have thought the virgin area would have been up the coast to St. Augustine.
2 words. Disney & Universal Studios
bostonpete posted:Joe Hohmann posted:I've ridden bright line and it is nice, but it remains to be seen whether history will show it to be a short term novelty or a long term profitable venture, or ends up becoming a government takeover which is unlikey as the lines, facilities, and equipment are owned by Florida East Coast RR and Virgin.I've ridden Bright Line last year, Ft. Lauderdale to West Palm. This year we may try the Miami trip. What I don't understand is why they plan on running tracks to Orlando, when there are already 2 trains going each way via Amtrak to West Palm and south. I would have thought the virgin area would have been up the coast to St. Augustine.2 words. Disney & Universal Studios
There are currently 2 trains each day linking the West Palm/Miami area with Orlando, the Silver Star and Silver Meteor. They leave West Palm at 9:47 am and 1:27 pm, and they leave Orlando for a return trip at 10:06 am and 12:26 pm. I doubt Bright Line plans on running more than 2 trips per day. Or is Bright Line running trains right into these parks?
Cause for Celebration? 😀
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
