Rattle can experts "Help Please"

Did you sand the primer before spraying color over it? What was the temp the day you painted and how far away did you hold the can? 

Rob

Yes, Fusion does exactly what it claims, adheres to plastic.  Unfortunately that means it bites hard on certain types of plastic, wrinkling it ever so slightly.

Edit: I've also used the exact same Fusion black on a plastic HO kit with similar disappointing results.

AMCDave likes to use Dupli-Color primer/sealer over plastic first, to prevent issues just like this.  It allows the use of virtually any type of paint and it's low build qualities help keep details sharp.

Bruce

Rob,

I never put any color over the primer figuring the gray would work on industrial tanks, therefore no sanding between coats.  It was a warm calm day, not hot.  I sprayed outside since the weather was nice and I think i tried to be about 12" away.

Joe

Wet-sanding with some 600 sandpaper should smooth the primer - at least if it's a sandable primer.

Primer is usually a little rough to the touch.  It never dries glossy or smooth,unless you put too much on.

I used to use Krylon a lot, but they changed the formula, the nozzle, and the propellant, making it unsuitable for what I do.  Rustoleum seems to have gone the opposite way, making rattle can paints far superior to the ones it made in the 1990s.

The problem with sanding is you are likely to lose the rivet detail. One reason I never use primer on plastic.

Pete

Fusion adheres great to MOST plastics that would be used in models. Using a primer first, kind of defeats the whole purpose of the fusion paint which has additives to make it adhere to plastic. Most primers do not.

Geo.

Well, here is what I do.

= Use Rustoleum primer and paints

= Fill the sink in the bathroom with hot water and put the primer can in for five minutes first.

- shake for a full minute (longer than it seems)

= spray primer from about a foot away in short, quick passes, building it up wet

= let it dry a day

= soak the paint can in hot water just like the primer

= spray flat black from twelve inches "sparingly" in many coats over five minutes. 

so far, so good.

Here is my first attempt doing a tender with just lightly sanding with 400 grit sand paper and the engines was sandblasted then painted no primer. both with Rustoleum paint. I did it with flash and then with my finger almost covering the flash 

This is an example of an undec car painted with semigloss "rattle can" paint.  Although it can't be seen clearly, the sides and roof were masked to leave them black.  The decals were custom printed.  Most waterslide decal instructions state that the surface must be gloss (i.e. smooth) for proper adhesion.

As I have stated in similar posts for this subject, weathering with rattle cans produces an unconvincing effect...it is too grainy.  A better method for simulating road dust is achieved with an air brush.  But for a full body paint job rattle cans will produce an acceptable finish.

I've done a lot of painting, and it always use an airbrush. I have, however, used Rustoleum spray cans for other painting, and it seems to be good quality paint and the spray pattern seems ok for a larger scale model.

i would recommend that gloss paints be used no matter which brand is chosen. Decal film is almost impossible to hide on a flat finish.

Jeff C

Already been stated.......

Dupli-color Gray sealer primer. Then any paint can be used. I like Tamiya the best......best spray can paint in the world.

I DO NOT like Fusion plastic paint. MANY model car guys have had major catastrophes using it. I KNOW many here love it. But think of it this way. 99.9999% of plastic static model builders have to paint their projects. I doubt that 40% of the OGR forum members paint the majority of their projects.  So the 'test' of weather a paint is good or not is going to be tested more by the static plastic model hobby.  By all means use it if you like it. There is no one perfect way. It's what works for you.   

I want to start with the qualifiers here,  I have almost no experience with painting model trains.  I do, however have several years experience working in an auto body shop doing show quality work, so think some of what I know about paint prep there carries over. 

As far as the primer goes, most are made specifically to cover flaws and build up thick, with the intention of block sanding the primer flat.  This is going to be quite problematic for the small details we deal with in cast boilers and rivet detail.  For automotive applications, a high build primer is useful, so the products I am familiar with tend to lean in the opposite direction for what would be needed for model trains.  I'd start by looking for primer specifically made for plastic models, or that advertises 'no sanding needed' as these will be much thinner and leave details intact.  If you can get away with it, I would use only a thin coat of a self-etching primer on bare metal and no primer on plastic.  

On either surface lightly scuff the surface with a grey scotch-brite pad.  Thoroughly clean the surfaces, with a wax and grease remover.  There is product made specifically for this purpose, washing with clean water, then with mineral sprits should do the job.  Do not touch with bare hands from this point, as the oil on your fingers can cause imperfections.  

On plastic I recommend using an adhesion promoter, this is a spray that helps paint stick to bare plastic, apply then wait about 5 minutes before applying your paint of choice.  I believe the 'fusion' pain has an adhesion promoter mixed in, but in my experience, applying separate products works better than using all-in-one types.  

Follow the directions on the cans, but in general hold about 10 inches, apply several thin coats rather than fewer thick ones, and use long strokes that start before the piece and end past it.  Follow instructions for time between coats as well, this should be something like less than 15 minutes or more than 24 hours.  Before handling the part I would recommend giving at least 24 hours and longer doesn't hurt here.  

This may be over kill for a beat up post war locomotive, but it works quite well on show quality automotive work.  

2

3

With as cheap as airbrushes and mini compressors are today, why not just spend the few bucks getting a decent one. Then you can use a finely ground pigment paint and lay a nice paint job, rather than having a paint job that looks like a porcelain tub? The job will look better, overspray is less, material is less, makes no sense to me why everyone doesn't have one!

I don't think any of these look like a porcelain tub.....but just IMHO

All spray cans. The CB&Q caboose was a MTH McDonalds unit that I removed the tampo but left the paint.

I have 3 airbrushes and 2 compressors. I use them for weathering and that odd paint color I can not find in a can. I got my first airbrush in 1972 and thought it was the answer to perfect paint. It wasn't. It was a tool. But I became a better painter with spray cans and the amount of time I DON'T spend taking apart, cleaning and putting back together is better spent.

I also believe GOOD spray can paint can be a better grade......check Tamiya spray....thinner than any other paint I have used with the same coverage.

There are folks that do fantastic work with an airbrush.......but that takes more work than cans in my opinion......a learning curve that many do not want to undertake. so lets not shame the spray can users yet.......

DAVE i really don't care how anyone here paints, but i stated my opinion about spray cans,they serve a purpose fast an easy for inexperienced or the good enough modeler. 

my experience: custom painted real cars my 1969 Camaro took first place at the international rod and custom show at Chicago's McCormick Place in 1971 in paint. Custom painted O scale brass locomotives and cars for customers. i've painted real cars, model cars and there is NO WAY anyone can paint a model using non model paint and not disassembling the model and get a high quality paint job. you have no control over air pressure and what about the pigment of the paint. do you think that the metallic in duplicolor is the same size for a real car as a model car? the thickness of the paint in a spray can is way too thick compared to floquil or tru-color,  so do you think Key or Koh's uses Krylon to paint their high dollar brass locomotives? I guess for diecast where the detail is anything less than sharp good enough is good enough.

lastly it takes time to do high end high quality work Earl Sheib made millions doing low quality paint jobs i wonder how many of Ron Pratt's cars that were sold at Barrett-Jackson were painted by old Earl? i look at it this way its my hobby and if it takes a lot of my time to do it right so be it its not like i'm a Chinese guy working in a factory making junk for Walmart so they can sell it for a nickle.

Seems rather harsh...

Mark in Oregon

Skip the Fusion! Worst paint I ever sprayed.

Fine for tricycles, yard furniture etc. but "no control" for fine work.

Sprays on like foaming "scrubbing bubbles" then slowly flattens.

its my opinion and if you want quality there is a correct way to do it. would you paint your living room with a push broom so you can get done fast?????????? hey don't take the drapes down or take the pictures off the wall paint around it. or is Krylon the answer??????

How bad really? If you can spray anything vertical with"Fusion" without a run, or sag, I would be amazed.

I thought I had a bad spray can tip at first, but it was fine.

Foaming paint What's next a paint can with a fuse?.

A few points.

I don't use any Dupli-color metalics in my model train or model car building. Moot point.

I don't sell at Barret Jackson. I don't sell my work at all.

I am a winner at the international level of model car competition. 1989 Hot Rod magazine International contest Indianapolis Ind.  I too am not a rookie. (or a Chinese worked some of whom do a great job for us manufacturing model trains and model cars)

This is my HOBBY....not my vocation. If you had read all the post in this thread you would see I said my way is not of everyone.....but if you are happy with how my work looks....here's is how. I said find your own method.

I have painted professionally. I do not enjoy it. Some do and make good money at it. Doesn't mean everyone on this forum wants to invest the TIME and MONEY to do so and would be happy with the results like what I post.

Sorry to get you worked up......not my intent and why I always post with a disclaimer.

Where did the 'I don't disassemble' come from???

My how to on the CSX repaint showed the model completely disassembled down to the ground....so I am not sure where that comes from or why it keeps getting thrown at me????

Have a good one!

the post started with asking rattle can experts for help i stated my opinion. it all depends on what you want its your hobby. i am a 2 railer because i don't like the 3rd rail the G scale coupler or the large flanges my hobby my likes. i like Chicago style deep dish pizza my opinion the best but new yorkers like thin pizza which they think is the best who's right who cares no correct answer. i have complimented you in the past on your work if you look back so this isn't to jam you up, only to say that if you want a quality outstanding paint job you can't do it with spray cans. again my opinion. not everyone wants a Koh's locomotive or can afford it some are happy with a railking or lionel scout but why knock the other guys work or opinion.

Real bottom line its a hobby do what makes you happy but when someone asks for advise how many different ways are there to accomplish the same results???

Not to jam you up but this came from your post right under the pic of the CSX diesel

"But I became a better painter with spray cans and the amount of time I DON'T spend taking apart, cleaning and putting back together is better spent." your words not mine.

again dave i don't care how anyone here paints or anything else. i do what i want for my own pleasure not to please someone else.

at the O scale convention in 1984 i won 1st and third in steam locomotive 1st in electric and 1st in passenger cars. i have won many model car contests and threw away 100's of car show and drag racing trophies. but the real bottom line who care's what i have done. i was only offering advise............ 

Oh, foaming painters are next

Its The House of Colors paint I bet, withdrawal from the fumes makes you irritable

ADRATIC that's right its the house of colors paint. coach joe asked for advise i tried to give him good advise in my opinion. then because i stated you can't get a great job from a spray can i don't know what i'm talking about. like i said my opinion not a government regulation i was posting and i left it as its your hobby do what you want what makes you happy. it has nothing to do with being irritable but now you have to say that because i have an opinion. obviously with all the contests i have won others regard my work as ok so i am not giving untried advise. as i stated i don't care how anyone here does anything its your hobby make yourself happy. maybe others here need to take a MIDOL.

I vote with Strummer.

The 'issue' came about when you called all spray can paint jobs as 'Porcelain Tub' like.

Advise is always welcome.

Just a negative comment draws fire.

It's like me coming over to the 2 rail forum and saying that all 2 railers unrealistic because they are still delivering power through the rails.....and not burning diesel or coal!!

Not positive...just a negative comment.

I'm with AMC Dave.  this thread started with rattle cans, and I use them to repaint locos - lots of them, some pretty involved (Warbonnet) because I can get good results and its easy and quiet and fast - no compressor noise to disturb my wife, no set up or cleaning the airbrush and all.  

And I'm the one who doesn't disassemble.  Do it rarely, and won't if all I am doing is repainting: leave well enough alone.  It's just involved masking if you don't disassemble.  No big deal.  

I'm not going to criticize anyone who likes to use an airbrush and small compressor.  I've done so myself, but while I will use one to weather or do faint shade overs, rattle cans do an excellent job of painting locos, if you know how to use them well. If not, well, stick with the airbrush if that works or even if you just like using it.  

About half a lifetime ago I won a bet painting a car with rattle cans (Austin Healey in Sherwood Green rattle cans bought from Sears.  It looked like a half-decent body shop job and the paint (from Sears) wore surprisingly well - still looked okay three years later. 

A good painter can get good results from either technique--just looking at AMCDave's work will confirm that.

Jeff C

This doesn't need to break down to a fight.

It was a question about spray can paint usage.

It'd be like answering a question on DCS with 'just use TMCC!'

Not what was asked.

And I am not mad or dislike 'NikeyCamaro' we've talked offline and are both car guys.

All is well!!!!!

Thanks

LEE WILLIS you are 110% correct "if you know how to use a spray can you can get good results" obviously Coach Joe was asking for advise as he was not getting great results. you don't have the control with a spray can nor are you using a paint with fine pigments which results in most cases with an orange peel surface also known in automotive paint shops as F.L.A. .

you can't get as fine of a spray pattern with a spray can as a airbrush and when working in close quarters and spraying highly detailed models you need a fine pattern. it all depends what you want and how particular you are. when it comes to paint i am very, very particular. read what JOHN GALT said about paint he obviously from the picture he posted must have some experience with paint.

since i am having withdrawls from house of color paint and am harsh ask BOB HANSEN a forum member or Harry Heike who are custom painters how they paint i don't know them but i'm guessing an airbrush.

as i stated before i don't care how you do it i was offering advise from an experienced painter.   i didn't realize if you own 2 rail and Chevrolets your advise is not wanted. i am sorry i posted anything at all. end of conversation.

All of the above: wow. Rough stuff. I think that I shall refrain from offering an opinion;

could be dangerous.

My can-painted stuff looks pretty good; my occasional "client" seems to like it, too.

I'll just keep it to myself.

I am far out of my league with the likes of AMCDave and others, but based on my limited experience, I certainly agree with Dave about the quality of Tamiya spray paints. Great paint, and the nozzles are good quality too, which makes a big difference.

I know Lee and others use Rustoleum with fine results, but personally I much prefer Krylon. Just my personal experience. It seems to me their nozzles are better, and their paint goes on smoother and dries about 5 times faster than Rustoleum, which takes forever to dry. I don't use the Krylon Fusion, just the regular Krylon sprays.

Incidentally, many of the newer sprays - including from Krylon and Rustoleum - now combine primer and paint, so (supposedly) there's no need to prime first. I don't have enough experience yet to say how effective this is. To date, I have rarely used primers before painting. 

i HAVE HAD LUCK WITH WEAVER SPRAY CANS AND AS STATED EARLIER SHORT MISTS FORM ABOUT 12" AWAY