Reasonable Expectations for Buying Used?

I've purchased a few locomotives from eBay with no issue. I mainly purchase at train shows though. I have purchased one PS2 5V locomotive from LiveAuctioneers and it needs a stacker board as the PS2 board is wonky. Some prices are LiveAuctioneer are way too good to pass up but its always a gamble.

eBay recently has had crazy prices so I try to steer clear of it. Train shows are still the best, I can look and touch it. The last Allentown show I picked up a Z-4000 transformer and WOW! I got it for $385 and it works great. I talked to the seller at length about it and he gave me his name & number incase there was an issue we could work something out. Couldn't really test it out while there (plus it weighs a ton) but it runs flawlessly.

I do try to avoid selling locomotives on eBay, I have read too many horror stories about people returning engines after they have tampered with them and eBay always sides with the buyer so youre left with no cash and a now broken unit. I even had an incident with a buyer but was able to clear it up.

With all the new technology and circuitry, id be afraid to buy used unless I could test it, recently picked up the METCA Entenmann's steam locomotive and tender and man that unit is SWEET (no pun intended) but its packed with so much stuff. If I didnt buy it directly from them, I would probably never buy one.

Auctions are not a good idea on eBay unless you are paying attention. The main thing with that is you need to be the last possible bid before the bidding is done, if, and a big if you can afford what the price has gotten to and are willing to sit and wait. This of course is if you are satisfied with everything about the seller and have no issues whatsoever.

Sites like Trainz are very good as they have a very good if not great online policy as well as excellent costumer service. Typically they may have several listings of an item you're looking for with various grades. If they don't have it, they may at some point in the future. I know a few people I have interacted with on here regarding the use of Trainz, have also taking a step to message them with what they are looking for if it isn't on the site.

Another thing to consider for pricing references for what is on eBay would be two outlets. First being a good buddy on here that knows what something should be selling for per the standards. The other is any online dealer as a point of high pricing(but not always the case). Say you are looking for early TMCC item, we'll use steam as an example. Online dealer may have a price of $500-$700, or even a bit more depending on other factors which they hold dear(sealed box or something). On eBay, the price is smack in the middle, $600. Your buddy says you should be able to get this item around $250-$300, maybe $350 tops. None of that includes shipping costs of course, but that is how things sometimes come together.

I've seen dealers price things according to their bottom line as well as standards, which yeah, make sense. People on eBay may be reasonable, but sometimes that is few and far between. I've seen a conventional engine on eBay listed at $1100, no way.

OK, I'll bite - pardon the 'brain fog' of an old man. Who is 'the major online seller', aka 'the one major ebay seller', aka 'the large dealer in the southeast' you guys are referring to please?  Had Trainz not been mentioned openly, I would have thought they were who you were referring to. Someone mentioned 'CFA' but in a quick scan of the posts above here I have no idea who you are talking about as several of you seem to.  :-(

Rarely do I buy 'new' anymore as prices have skyrocketed too high for my budget. Most of my acquisitions over the past 10 years or so have come from this Forum with no complaints - you are a pretty upright bunch of fellas! I have occasionally picked up something from our 2 local train shows, eBay, and have had good experiences with Trainz and Mr Muffin's.

I took a chance on a 2245 Texas Special AB at a decent price last month at our show and am pleasantly surprised that runs extremely well - fast and smooth and is a beauty!

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Auctions are not a good idea on eBay unless you are paying attention. The main thing with that is you need to be the last possible bid before the bidding is done, if, and a big if you can afford what the price has gotten to and are willing to sit and wait. This of course is if you are satisfied with everything about the seller and have no issues whatsoever.

Sites like Trainz are very good as they have a very good if not great online policy as well as excellent costumer service. Typically they may have several listings of an item you're looking for with various grades. If they don't have it, they may at some point in the future. I know a few people I have interacted with on here regarding the use of Trainz, have also taking a step to message them with what they are looking for if it isn't on the site.

Another thing to consider for pricing references for what is on eBay would be two outlets. First being a good buddy on here that knows what something should be selling for per the standards. The other is any online dealer as a point of high pricing(but not always the case). Say you are looking for early TMCC item, we'll use steam as an example. Online dealer may have a price of $500-$700, or even a bit more depending on other factors which they hold dear(sealed box or something). On eBay, the price is smack in the middle, $600. Your buddy says you should be able to get this item around $250-$300, maybe $350 tops. None of that includes shipping costs of course, but that is how things sometimes come together.

I've seen dealers price things according to their bottom line as well as standards, which yeah, make sense. People on eBay may be reasonable, but sometimes that is few and far between. I've seen a conventional engine on eBay listed at $1100, no way.

I love my MPC Blue Comet and Southern Crescent engines but they day I see them going for $1100 I'll love seeing them go too.

I'd love to get the K-Line Midnight Chief passenger cars but theyre going for around 400 A PIECE!! I recently acquired a Williams Santa Fe black/red diesel set and I think they would look super sharp with it. I'll be in the obituaries if I start buying single passenger cars for 400 a shot.

I'm with C. Sam. I trust the folks on the OGF. Many years of great purchases, completely as promised.  Great  train folks on a well monitored site. Only one deal was unpleasant. 99.99% +++ great experiences.

Also had a positive "high end purchase" with Trainz, a few years ago; I can't afford much new stuff any longer, and Dave's store, the Mercer Junction, is regrettably a memory.

@c.sam posted:

OK, I'll bite - pardon the 'brain fog' of an old man. Who is 'the major online seller', aka 'the one major ebay seller', aka 'the large dealer in the southeast' you guys are referring to please?  Had Trainz not been mentioned openly, I would have thought they were who you were referring to. Someone mentioned 'CFA' but in a quick scan of the posts above here I have no idea who you are talking about as several of you seem to.  :-(

Rarely do I buy 'new' anymore as prices have skyrocketed too high for my budget. Most of my acquisitions over the past 10 years or so have come from this Forum with no complaints - you are a pretty upright bunch of fellas! I have occasionally picked up something from our 2 local train shows, eBay, and have had good experiences with Trainz and Mr Muffin's.

Apologies; I was referring to CabinFeverAuctions out of PA when I said "CFA." They have soft-close on all of their auctions--if you bid in the last 2 minutes you extend bidding by two minutes.   (But every lot by default runs simultaneously staggered--for example, lot 1 will end at the scheduled time of 5:01 PM EDT, Lot 2 at 5:02 PM EDT, etc.  This means that if people place last minute bids on Lot 1, Lot 2 might close before Lot 1 does.)

I am assuming the Big Ebay Seller is Trainz; at least that is who I meant in my post.

New prices are generally far too high for my budget.  Berwyn and Mr Muffin have been good non-auction sources for things.

I’ve been reading this thread with interest since it started as I’m about a year into what I’ve quickly discovered to be the world’s greatest hobby. Then today, a Williams 4912 GG1 I recently purchased from Trainz via eBay arrived. It was described as having dual motors. Was quite surprised to find it had no motors. There doesn’t even seem to be a place for the motors. Waiting on their reply to my complaint.

Will let you know how this turns out.

OGR Rocks!

@Bill Barlowe posted:

Then today, a Williams 4912 GG1 I recently purchased from Trainz via eBay arrived. It was described as having dual motors. Was quite surprised to find it had no motors. There doesn’t even seem to be a place for the motors.

  That's... sad... is one word that comes to mind.  I'm aghast at them.

Hi Bill,

In the 90s (pre Bachmann ownership) Williams went through a phase of selling locomotive power/dummy 2 packs. They did this for everything from GP’s, to FM Train Masters, to oddly enough, GG1’s. A lot of those 2 packs have been split up over the years and thanks to the generic marketing slogans such as “dual maintenance free motors” on the outer box (that encircle the window), it is easy to confuse a power for a dummy. Add to that, the individual boxes often did not get their own label identifying which box contained the power and which contained the dummy; there was an outer “master box” that had this information. The master box was more of a flimsy cardstock sleeve so it often got trashed.

If a seller didn’t take the time to open and inspect the locomotive, it would be real hard to tell. Even the weight of Williams power and dummy units is not too different.

I’m sure it will be an easy return with Trainz. I’ve had problems with products I purchased from them in the past but I must say their customer service is first rate and that is why I continue to purchase from them. Just be sure to look at photos of the item very closely and compare to what you receive; I suspect unboxed product occassionaly experiences handling damage as it moves about their operation. Not suprising given the volume of product they process.

Thanks for the history lesson. I love learning more each time I’m on OGR. Well that makes sense and guess they just missed it. I’m confident we’ll get it sorted out.

OGR Rocks!

I have bought hundreds of used items.  I had a long answer, but to shorten it all when buying used;

Rolling stock you need to be able to replace bulbs, oil correctly and fix couplers. 

Engines oiling, cleaning, brush servicing, soldering and wire replacement.  E-unit servicing on conventional engines. 

TMCC/Legacy/electronic sound.   Another Level.  I can replace these systems but not repair.   Make sure they are fully functioning before purchase.

Find a few good part suppliers. 

Make a plan, start small and work your skills up.  I started in conventional Postwar engines and have a few modern TMCC/Legacy. 

@Bill Barlowe posted:

I’ve been reading this thread with interest since it started as I’m about a year into what I’ve quickly discovered to be the world’s greatest hobby. Then today, a Williams 4912 GG1 I recently purchased from Trainz via eBay arrived. It was described as having dual motors. Was quite surprised to find it had no motors. There doesn’t even seem to be a place for the motors. Waiting on their reply to my complaint.

Wow, that's unusual!  I predict that Trainz will handle this quite quickly and give you a total refund.  It is curious how they could be so far off base about the locomotive, but typically they respond pretty quickly to any valid complaint about a purchase.

Bill, is that a 'traditional' sized GG1 or a scale length model?   I have a 'Blackjack' 5 striped scale GG1 that is a dummy that I run with my Green 5 stripe JLC unit and they make a good-looking pair!  Trainz will likely offer you the option to accept a partial refund and you could perhaps hang onto it and find a mate to run double headed.

Thanks for that idea. I’m negotiating that with them now.

OGR Rocks!

@Ryan Selvius posted:

Hi Bill,

In the 90s (pre Bachmann ownership) Williams went through a phase of selling locomotive power/dummy 2 packs. They did this for everything from GP’s, to FM Train Masters, to oddly enough, GG1’s. A lot of those 2 packs have been split up over the years and thanks to the generic marketing slogans such as “dual maintenance free motors” on the outer box (that encircle the window), it is easy to confuse a power for a dummy. Add to that, the individual boxes often did not get their own label identifying which box contained the power and which contained the dummy; there was an outer “master box” that had this information. The master box was more of a flimsy cardstock sleeve so it often got trashed.

If a seller didn’t take the time to open and inspect the locomotive, it would be real hard to tell. Even the weight of Williams power and dummy units is not too different.

I’m sure it will be an easy return with Trainz. I’ve had problems with products I purchased from them in the past but I must say their customer service is first rate and that is why I continue to purchase from them. Just be sure to look at photos of the item very closely and compare to what you receive; I suspect unboxed product occassionaly experiences handling damage as it moves about their operation. Not suprising given the volume of product they process.

Thanks for the excellent information.  I know that Williams made a lot of dummy engines, but would never have guessed that it would be done with a GG1.  I'm a big fan of Williams engines - best bang for the buck, and they're what I run on my club's modular layout to avoid frying the electronics in a Lionel or MTH engine. 

While I'm not a stickler for prototypical accuracy, I'm curious - were GG1 locos ever run double-headed?

@Bill Barlowe posted:

Thanks for that idea. I’m negotiating that with them now.

OGR Rocks!

Williams parts site currently shows geared trucks and motors for the GG1.  https://estore.bachmanntrains....dex&cPath=77_247

One option might be to retrofit it into a powered unit, although I'm guessing that the parts would cost more than buying an entire engine.

Trainz shows several scale and semi-scale GG1 locos available - ask for a swap, and they pay postage both ways.

I've only had one bad Ebay transaction related to trains.  A train store out of California that was listing used equipment as tested.  I purchased an MTH engine that arrived so corroded that the wires didn't carry any electricity.  The Zinc fuel tank on the bottom of the U35B was corroded out as well.  They kept claiming it had been tested, but couldn't provide so much as a picture with the lights on.  I never did get that one working even after installing a BCR and replacing the wiring.

I have bid several times on Cabin Fever Auctions, but their prices go so high.  I've never won anything.  I am pretty much forced to go out of town otherwise to add to the collection.  There is only one train show per year where I live and it is always on Sunday.  Lately I have started getting a few things from Mr. Muffins.

Remember Lionel warranty  is only for items sold by authorized dealers and no they will not accept a receipt from an ebay sale even from a dealer.