Recent Steam Locomotive Polling Builds

Poling? As in building poling pockets?  I just use a twist drill, sinking it into the brass about 1/64".

1) "Poling"?  +2

2) Sunset/3rd Rail already announced both the C&O K3/Ka Mikes, and never received enough reservations.

3) Sunset/3rd Rail already announced both the NYC H9/H10 Mikes, and never received enough reservations.

4) Maybe an eMail DIRECTLY to Scott Mann would help.

Well I elected to do it this way, hopefully to generate interest from other's here on the forum.  Those in/of interest responding to the affirmative, and Scott Mann could see the interest, and possibly asking for a for sure, show of hands...............I hope!

I well understood what you told me on my 1st post, and you said then, that it had been I believe, 3-4 years ago or possibly longer, that it was discussed.

I was raised on the old saying that the "Squeaking wheel get the Grease"......................................Just Sayin..................  

Brandy,

I'll second Hot Water's comments about the C&O and NYC mikados. These were announced several years ago on the Sunset website and at a number of shows including York TCA, and  various 2 rail shows. I recall a number of US Hobbies H-10's being sold at 2 rail shows by modelers expecting to purchase the Sunset version with current detailing standards.

As of now, the C&O H-6 reservations are not very good but hopefully that will change.

I can well understand the C&O 2-6-6-2 H-6, as the 2-6-6-2 configuration has been done a few times, but that wasn't an exact H-6, possibly the less H-4/5 model.

I well understand, what both you and "Hot Water Jack", are telling me!

I'm just going by, with 3-4 years or longer ago, that this was being "Polled",  there may be some interest now, but unless that would be done, "Who Knows"!!

I just look at some of the models that 3rd Rail, Lionel, and MTH has done, well I can't believe that they haven't, done at least one of the above listed if not all.

It took MTH to get the C&O K-4 Kanawha done, as Lionel did a few 2-8-4 models, but only one, the "Virginian", with the pilot mounted headlight, then they screwed the pooch, as the sand dome was in the wrong spot, but what ever!

Just more of getting what the mfg's wanting you to have, enlieu of what you want!

Like I said, just trying to get some interest started, as it seems like another group is wanting a "Selkirk" model done, and that is ok, if not great, if you like and admire Canadian Steam.

I don't, but that's just my preference, nor will I buy one of the T&P 2-10-4's, and I actually rode int the cab of that engine from K&I Yard to Princeton, Indiana, when Southern had it leased, many years ago. A family member was at the throttle, and said it rode like a buckboard wagon, pull a lot of cars, but it was slower than "Smoke off Sh*t"............Short time later they got the #2716 leased, and if Southern would have ever had a "Berkshire Locomotive", that would have been it!

Little Thread Drift there!!!!! 

Several years ago Scott announced a C&O L2 Hudson. I remember as I was one of the less than 10 people that reserved one. Obviously he didn't get enough reservations and he didn't go forward with it. Oh well.

The C&O K2/K3 is one I really want as it was used everywhere on the C&O and its a nice sized, non-articulated general purpose locomotive. I've heard the stories about 3RD Rail announcing this model and not getting enough reservations. Somehow I missed the announcement at York and never saw it on the website. Oh well again.

I don't know how Lionel makes product decisions but they have a lot of the tooling already in hand to make these. The K2/3 weren't USRA engines but were dimensionally very similar to a USRA Heavy Mikado. So Lionel could take their new USRA Heavy Mikado, use the boiler front from the H7, pilot from the H7, cab from the F17 Pacific, and both rectangular and Vanderbilt tenders from the H7. If all these parts fit together OK they could come up with credible models of both the K2 and K3. I never have understood why when Lionel re-released the H7 they chose to use the Vanderbilt tender again instead of the rectangular as they used on the UP version. The rectangular tender is a C&O tender and by far the majority of the H7's had rectangular tenders with only the 1580 (the JLC release) having a 16,000 gallon Vanderbilt. If Lionel had done just a little research they could have had a version different from the JLC and maybe sold some more.

A comment on the proposed H6. Historically its a significant engine (last commercially built steam engine for the Class 1 railroads), but Lionel's already done the similar USRA Mallet twice. These were classed H5 on the C&O. The H4 and H6 were better liked by their crews, but the Lionel's H5 is  a pretty close model. So the question is does the three rail market need another C&O mine shifter? I'm still on the fence for the 3RD Rail model. The $2200 price tag is pretty pricey and probably will be the main reason if I don't reserve one. Unfortunately I guess that is where brass prices are heading now.

Ken

I would like to see the Southern Streamlined PS4 from the Tennessean and a matching 8 car set. 

Weaver's model seems to me to still be in demand as the prices on the bay and other websites are fairly high. I don't think MTH and Lionel would invest the tolling for this one off streamliner, although they already have the chassis obviously from their own runs of the PS4.

As I've pointed out a few times, this train would also be a hit with N&W fans as it was pulled over the N&W by a J Class from Monroe/Lynchburg, VA to Bristol via  Roanoke. 

 Additionally, the order for the Tennessean's cars was the same as the Southerner's cars - both trains had identical consists except for the observation car as the Tenessean had a blunt end obs so Pullman sleepers could be added on the rear at Bristol. 

I have correspond directly with Scott and he's has expressed some interest if folks show there's a demand. Obviously he has his hands full with issues in China and my heart goes out to him for that, but perhaps we could get this on the radar for next year. 

I know I am being a squeaky wheel on this but I'm hoping to drum up enough interest to make this a reality. 

Kanawha, I didn't realize Lionel is/was that close with parts from their past production/engineering dept, that they could as you say, do the "Super Mikado's" of the C&O.

Realize that the production effort of these models, would be more of a hurdle by 3rd Rail, than Lionel, especially with past production compatibility of parts.

What I'm have problem with is what the flavor of the week/month was several years ago may not be that today!

Myself, now that the family dogs have died, and the kids, grown, educated, and well on their own, in their late 40's. I'd take 2 each K2/K3/K3a, as well as, as few of the NYC H10's.

It's one of those things that you see, and remember as a kid, from "bicycling day's" around old Louisville Ky, that you just gotta have!

Maybe we ought to get together as a C&O Group, and talk it up with Lionel!! Hell, all they could do is slam the door in our faces, and sick the dogs on us!......

Yep, that's another one that I wouldn't mind having, but "C" as in C&O, comes before "S", as in Southern..............Just Sayin.....................:<

Look ahead, look South Brandy

MJ, Ya just know how many "Southern Railroad Dollars", put food in my belly, and close on my back, when I was a kid. If we were enroute somewhere, and saw something with the "Southern Serves the South" logo, the old man would all but pull over, and make the family salute the signage. He was an extremely proud railroad man, and 100% dedicated to his trade. 

I can't imagine how hard it would be to work on the railroad for him, as he was a SOAB to do outside house work, and cut grass for...........:< 

rheil posted:

As of now, the C&O H-6 reservations are not very good but hopefully that will change.

Bob,

Any idea how the reservations are going for the various T&P 2-10-4 models?    Just wondering,  as I have the Freedom Train version on reservation.   I really hope that these end up being produced. 

Thanks,  Nick

When 3rdrail announced the NYC H10 mikado project several years back, I pushed for him to add just a few in B&A.  He would of had my order and at least a few others that I know of.  Maybe enough to put the project over the top in minimum orders. But, it wasn't to be and the project was canceled.

Hey Scott, offer still stands.  I'll buy if you build it. For this project I would of broken my promise never to spend on new motive power.

machinist posted:

Bob,

Any idea how the reservations are going for the various T&P 2-10-4 models?    Just wondering,  as I have the Freedom Train version on reservation.   I really hope that these end up being produced. 

Thanks,  Nick

Hi Nick,

Better than the C&O 2-6-6-2 but nowhere near enough to start the project. Summer is usually slow for reservations. I expect things to pick up in September/October. I believe Sunset has all the info needed for the various versions of the T&P 2-10-4.

My guess is that nothing will happen until 2017, and if reservations are sufficient I would estimate a second half of 2017 delivery.

Bob

Does B&O have a more dedicated set of buyers than other railroads? We have managed to get the Q-4, T-3, P-7, and the Cincinattian loco and car set made. I'd think there would be as many buyers for an NYC or C&O Mike as the for the B&O examples.
Of course, we do have Bob Heil on our side.....

Now, if there were more Reading foamers, we might get the K-1 or the I-10 made. I'd buy either, or both.

rheil posted:

machinist posted:

Bob,

Any idea how the reservations are going for the various T&P 2-10-4 models?    Just wondering,  as I have the Freedom Train version on reservation.   I really hope that these end up being produced. 

Thanks,  Nick

Hi Nick,

Better than the C&O 2-6-6-2 but nowhere near enough to start the project. Summer is usually slow for reservations. I expect things to pick up in September/October. I believe Sunset has all the info needed for the various versions of the T&P 2-10-4.

My guess is that nothing will happen until 2017, and if reservations are sufficient I would estimate a second half of 2017 delivery.

Bob

Bob,

Thanks for your reply.    Come on guys-lets try to get some more reservations and make sure these are produced.    As far as I know,  these have never been made by anyone in O gauge(3R) or possibly O scale(2R-not sure about this one).   The odds of one of the big 3 making these engines are slim and none(and slim probably just left town).    Just trying to rally some support.

Nick 

How well can a 3-rail version be adapted into a 2-rail version that will satisfy the 2-rail scale people? Maybe not well enough, because of the design compromises for the relatively sharp curves of 3-rail. Traditional 3-rail, 3RS and 2-rail O-scale. The fragmentation of the limited O-gauge market is another factor that confounds the manufacturers seeking adequate sales to justify new production.

 

How well can a 3-rail version be adapted into a 2-rail version that will satisfy the 2-rail scale people?

Well enough for Sunset 3rd Rail to make a successful business doing it,

I missed out in seeing/reserving a C&O Mikado, from 3rd Rail...and would have jumped at it, as they are my favorite loco, even if they didn't run in Colorado. Somebody made a Pacific, I have heard.... never seen.. how similar are they? I won't buy Pacifics, but wonder if that mfr. (L or MTH) had the boiler already?  Surprised that loco was not more popular when offered, and that I missed it.

colorado hirailer posted:

I missed out in seeing/reserving a C&O Mikado, from 3rd Rail...and would have jumped at it, as they are my favorite loco, even if they didn't run in Colorado. Somebody made a Pacific, I have heard.... never seen.. how similar are they? I won't buy Pacifics, but wonder if that mfr. (L or MTH) had the boiler already?  Surprised that loco was not more popular when offered, and that I missed it.

The Lionel C&O F17 Heavy Pacific from several years ago is almost identical to the C&O Mikado except of course for the wheel arrangement and I'm sure some boiler dimensions. Both the Pacifics and Mikados were built around the same time period.

Ken

I'd like to give a shout out special thank you, to all, that also want one or both of these "Super Mikado's", as I call them. I'm at a loss of how to press forward, as I've did the asking to Scott, as suggested, when I offered to get him some measurements and pictures he might need to do the C&O #1309 2-6-6-2. 

Maybe there would be away to get Lionel, or MTH interested. Especially since lionel has done the F-17/19 Hvy Pacific, with the flying pumps, and also the Big H-7 2-8-8-2, with flying front pumps/compressors. They also have the compatible Vanderbuilt tenders, as well as, the "Big Rectangular Tender", as used on their "Berkshires". 

I'm not a rivet counter by no means, but I think that either, or both of these tenders, would work for the locomotive models, which would cut way down on the extra engineering costs.

I know that Scott will see this thread, and whether he will give any kind of answer, only time will tell.

I don't know who Bob Heil is, but if he could help, that would be a plus!.....................................Thanks again Brandy!...............................

Brandy,  Scott Mann refers to me as his "east coast representative". I do the York TCA shows and many 2 rail shows for Sunset / Golden Gate Depot, but Scott and I consider my primary function as being involved in what products to select for production.

Several years back I had signs posted at shows regarding the C&O and NYC mikados as I believed they would be good projects based on potential customer feedback I received at shows. As has been stated, reservations for both were rather anemic. By comparison, Sunset/3rd Rail built 190 B&O Q-4b mikados and sold out of them quickly. Considering that a production run of a specific steam locomotive only needs to be  125 units in 2/3 rail combined, I was surprised that the C&O and NYC offerings received very little interest.

Perhaps 2017 will see a revisit of the C&O and NYC 2-8-2 offerings.

R. Heil

Bob, this may or may not sound dumb, but did you have some pictures, of both engines, as well as, the 3 different style tenders that the C&O put behind their "Mikado's"?

I never ever saw anything but the 12 wheel tender's behind the H-10 class engines around the Louisville/Jeffersonville area of the 50's.

The C&O switched out using the 8 wheel Vandy Tender from Lexington to Louisville back in the very early 50's, to the 12 wheel Vanderbuilt, and then also seeing the Big rectangular tender, as was behind their "Kanawha's".

The reason I asked about pictures!  "Mikado's" are "Mikado's", unless you are talking about C&O/NYC, as they were something special, and far, far exceed all of the rest!...........I'm apparently not the only one who thinks so either.

Last but not least, the last "Mikado" that Lima Locomotive Works did for the D.T.&I. was know slouch either, and probably the Biggest and most Powerful of all!

Thanks for answering my post, along with the other guys. Maybe 2017, you can get these engines built. I do think good pics of these engines and tenders, would help push your advertisement for production. I know for a fact we have at least 4 guys in our home club that would purchase the C&O stuff, and me making 5.

Then we start the NYC engines. I mean really, the detailing on the H10's alone makes a far better looking engine, as oppose to the "Hudson", "Mohawk", and "Niagara". These have been done how many times now?

 I realize that it's only my opinion, and that's like another part of the anotomy, that everybody has one of!.............................

Just advertise it with pictures, it could make a difference, and if not, I stand corrected..........................Thanks again Bob Heil!

I'm now like Forrest Gump, that's all I got to say bout that!!!!...................................................................Brandy!  

Brandy,

I agree that both the C&O and NYC locomotives were not advertised as well as they could have been, Pictures would have helped, and I'll suggest that for the future. I also believe the following plays a role in today's market.

My layout is full and so are my shelves.        Santa is thinking of laying off some elves.   He doesn't need to make as many trains any more.   They've gotten too expensive to sell at the store.

Bob, I didn't know of you, nor your connection with/to 3RD Rail Group!    I'll address you here on the forum in the future.

I'll ask around the AMRS, as well as, the Collis P. Huntington, to see what we/they have available in pictures, and Locomotive "LED's", that Collis P. Huntington or C&O Historical Society in Clifton, Forge may have in their collections, or privey to, from other member's private collections!....

If I can get these items to you, it surely might make a difference in getting the C&O K2/K3/K3a into production, providing the numbers are what you folks would need, to make a production, hopefully in 2017!

Thanks you very much for telling me about your connections with the 3RD Rail Group........................................Eric Brandy Brandenburg!

P.S. Let me know if I can be assistance  with pictures, measurements, and Locomotive "LEDS" of the C&O #1308, which is the twin sister to the C&O #1309 that's being restored near Cumberland Maryland! The #1308 is located in Huntington West Virginia, and is kept on static display by some members of the Collis P. Huntington Railroad Society.

 I made this offer to Scott Mann, and he said that, he would have to await, and see if order numbers would be met, for a production run!

The Locomotive Cyclopedia Vol 2 has pictures and drawings of the C&O K2 and the NYC H10-a and H10-b.

Ken

Thanks Ken, I'm gonna look through my book collection, and see if I have that one!

I'm hoping to get an LED from C&O Historical Society in Clifton, as that would give them all of the dimension's they would/should need, along with some good pictures..... Thanks for the heads up.

I started out wanting a C&O L2/L2a "Hudson", and have all forgotten about that engine. If these "Hudson Lover's" would see those C&O Hudson's they would leave their NYC's in the Round House...............................

Must be my Senior ADD is helping me along Ya Think?????

I would definitely buy a C&O Mike in any class and with any tender variation. Been waiting on someone to make one in 3 rail for a while now ever since I was in middle school. That was one of their best looking steamers. Need one to pull those local trains around since most of my C&O engines are either big steamers or passenger. 

As for the NYC H10s. That would be another good choice. Nothing like a beefy looking H10.