Red Driver Axle Ends on Rio Grande Engines

Since the axles painted red on both engine sets is the "main" driver, I would think that it would denote a difference in bearing type ie; solid vs. roller bearing, or perhaps a different type of box lubrication as a grease pack vs. oil. The SP used stars on their axles to denote this.

Wondering if it has something to due with maintenance or a particular brand/size/class of bearing cap?  Similar to today on freight cars when you see blue bearing caps?

I think Chris and Mike are getting really 'warm' on the hub coloration.  I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find that it identified a different feature in that axle/bearing/lubrication package.  After all, if original work was done at one shop, but needed service at a different location, what QAE (Quick And Easy) technique could they use to communicate to personnel...before on-line computer links of service records, etc.?   Did service records travel on-board a piece of equipment like an L131?....I doubt it.  During WWII, for instance, did they really have time to research service info among the several shops that may have done work on an engine? 

Good guess, guys!!

The fog is lifting...

KD

Chris Allan posted:

Since the axles painted red on both engine sets is the "main" driver, I would think that it would denote a difference in bearing type ie; solid vs. roller bearing, or perhaps a different type of box lubrication as a grease pack vs. oil.

To my knowledge, no other railroad used pressure feed oil lubrication with babbitted plain bearings, except the SP. The SP developed and patented that oil lubrication system, thus no other railroads seemed to be interested. Besides, roller bearings were the real way to go on new steam locomotive production by 1940 anyway.

The SP used stars on their axles to denote this.

According to Scott Mann, the builder saw these red painted axle centers in prototype photos, and thus included that "feature" on the models. I'm still trying to find out exactly WHY the D&RGW did such a thing. 

Austin Bill posted:

I recently posted this same topic over on the OGR Real Trains Forum ... The picture below is not mine.  It came from that other post.  Thanks ACE. 

It's not my photo either; I found it with a Google search and it was originally posted on this forum by "EBN":

https://ogrforum.com/t...1-green-late-2-8-8-2

Close-up color photos of prototype D&RGW L-131 locos are a bit scarce. See any red axle ends here?

Hot Water posted:

According to Scott Mann, the builder saw these red painted axle centers in prototype photos, and thus included that "feature" on the models. I'm still trying to find out exactly WHY the D&RGW did such a thing. 

So, here's a couple questions re earlier thoughts...  Were the photos used to research the model all of the same engine, or was this red-dot feature observed consistently among photos of several different locomotives of the same class?   If the red axle ends were unique to a particular engine number/photo, then the pickers-of-nit may have to start pulling their (remaining, in my case!) hair out wondering if the red axle ends are 'correct' for their particular engine number?   ...and which axle ends, if any, would've been red-dotted for the different engine numbers?  And for which basic engine paint scheme/time frame was THE red-dot feature photographed?  And, would this feature survived a later scheme, or been there for an earlier one?  (Oh Lordy, I can hear the gnashing of teeth and ripping of sackcloth already!...sorry.)  And, how do these photos become so relevant to the issue, and yet are so obscure in the multitude of published information/books/etc. about DRGW steam power?  And where is Erik Lindgren on this issue?.....I would've thought he would have some insight on the matter (no disrespect meant to the rest of the expertise participating in this conundrum, mind you!).

IOW...

KD

More red axle ends.  

Maybe that's the insulated side?

Another guess would be " keep an eye on this box?"

The plot thickens.

Maybe red is a shop identifier for axles with different specs. In the photo of #803, the other driver axle looks shiny new, suggesting recent work.

Or, maybe, just some joker in the shop with a can of red paint wondering if anyone would notice...

Rusty

The two photos Austin Bill posted are the ones I referenced on the Real Trains section. The two photos date to 1939 and 1940, respectively. Additionally I found the same  photo       (from 1954) of L131 #3607, with the 3rd driver hub painted red. It does not show up here, but does on the photo I found. It would be fair to presume that red hubs were employed from at least the late 30's, to the end of std gauge steam (1956)

There are many photos of DRGW steam locomotives with white and occaisionly aluminum hubs. The utter lack of consistancy would indicate to me that it was not done to advise of a particular bearing type - - they all are friction bearings, except, I believe, the M68's and L105's, of 1938 vintage. Red hubs have been documented on a 4-6-2, an M64 4-8-4 and an L131 2-8-8-2. If it was a system wide practice, wouldn't it show up on a lot more locomotives? In photos? Or a specific class of locomotive?

My bet remains that it was decorative, only. But I could be wrong......

My O scale Key L95 2-8-8-2 has red hubs and I believe some of the O scale PSC M68 4-8-4's came with red hubs. Think it was limited to those engines with green boilers.

Good stuff, Mark. Thanks

Think it was limited to those engines with green boilers.

OH NO!!!!  You mean my black L131 from 3rd rail may have a paint error???????Egads!!!!! 

dkdkrd posted:

Think it was limited to those engines with green boilers.

OH NO!!!!  You mean my black L131 from 3rd rail may have a paint error???????Egads!!!!! 

Ken,

I thought the L-131 was your wife's locomotive. At least that is what she said at York.

Quick addendum:  the red hubs appeared (I believe) on Precision Scale's O scale M68 4-8-4's with green boilers. This is not a comment on what the real Rio Grande did as a practice. Note the photos above are of black locomotives with red hubs. So, black L131 owners can relax !!

Has anyone ever seen a photo of a narrow gauge Rio Grande locomotive with red hubs?  

rheil posted:

dkdkrd posted:

Think it was limited to those engines with green boilers.

OH NO!!!!  You mean my black L131 from 3rd rail may have a paint error???????Egads!!!!! 

Ken,

I thought the L-131 was your wife's locomotive. At least that is what she said at York.

BUSTED!!!

(Talk about 'trouble in River City'!!!)

KD

BTW....How's the E1/EA project progressing?(Rhetorical question....no need to reply...just being relentless....as usual.)

The only information that I have on D&RG locos is a short article about the 4-6-6-4's and it mentions that they had a Le Chatelier water brake. Could it be the red axle designates that the loco is equipped with a Le Chatelier water brake?

Big Jim:   very logical thesis and tentative conclusion!  The heck of it is that I believe all  Rio Grande steam locomotives, including narrow gauge, were equipped with the LeChatelier water brake.  Virtually every line of consequence on the 'Grande confronted severe grades: Tennessee Pass (3%), Marshall (3%), Cumbres (3%), Monarch (4%), LaVeta (3%), Joint Line (2%), Moffat (2%), Soldier Summit, UT (2%). Not only did the Rio Grande have to go up those grades - they had to come down on the other side, requiring braking power for every engine.

MARK S is correct, about the "water brake". Although the Santa Fe experimented with it, the D&RGW was the only railroad in the U.S. to successfully use it, and use it a LOT.

Its filler to cover the large Phillips head screw! 

More red axles on D&RGW steam, that must mean something important ...

Looks like a "Hollywood" movie paint job, not Rio Grande inspired........     

Ace posted:

More red axles on D&RGW steam, that must mean something important ...

Those are NOT the axle ends, but the counter weights that are painted red. The narrow gauge Rio Grande steam locomotives were out-side frame.

HO Key L95 2-8-8-2 with red hubs:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXR8Gp-ucKw

Alright!!  Thanks, Mark.  The plot thickens.

Ace posted:

More red axles on D&RGW steam, that must mean something important ...

Along with the yellow cylinder and air compressor jacketing, maroon cab & tender? 

I would suspect it's all a painful leftover from movie or TV work. 

Besides, the 483 isn't a Rio Grande loco anymore, she's a Cumbres and Toltec locomotive. (Been so for 46 years, one year longer than she was a D&RGW locomotive...)

Rusty

I like it- except for the cylinders.  A prototype for everything.