Researching small PRR steam

I don't know about the MTH model.    

Weaver did PRR H10 and L1 in both 2 and 3 rail that is decent in my opinion.    They both have slightly too long pilot decks probably to accomodate the 3 rail version.    This is not hardly noticable on the H10, a little more so but not that bad on the L1.    On both locos I replaced the pilot wheel with a larger one to fill the space.    On the H10 especially it was undersized quite a bit.   I used a 36 inch wheel and it looks quite nice.     On the L1 I just replaced the pilot axle with an athearn one with delrin wheels to avoid the metal ones hitting the frame on curves.     The H10 comes with a "lines west" tender.     the mikado comes with the tender most commonly seen on these.     

Central Locomotive Works (CLW) offered a kit to build an H10 and either tender was available. with the kit.    These locos often show up at shows for sale built up, some quite nicely done.     One caveat, test run it.    I have heard it said that quite a few have a lurch in the get-a-long if not assembly properly.

Both USHobbies and MaxGrey imported L1s.    I have a USHobbies one.   It is Quite nice and a very robust mechanism.   Once run in, it runs very smoothly.

Recently Sunset imported an L1 model with a higher level of detail.    This is a very nice looking model.  

Also, if want smaller, sunset some years ago imported a model of a modernized H6 2-8-0.     I have one of these too, and I really like it.   It pulls very well for a small loco (25 + on level track) and runs smoothly.   The detail is very nice.    Again these show up at shows for sale.    Sunset did 3 different numbers.

An outlier is a Light USRA mikado.    Pennsy had 30 of these when the Federal Gov had control of the RRs.     I think they were mostly west.     They sold off all but 6 when the company was back in private control.    Those 6 were assigned to the southern Ohio area I think a line referred to as the Little Miami line.     I think this is too rare to represent pennsy practice.

Finally in the late steam era after WWII the difference between lines West and Lines East pretty much vanished.    Power was assigned and moved around quite a bit and there were no longer Lines West and Lines East locos by style.    For example a lot of H10s migrated east and H9s and H8s moved west.      So in that era it would not in my opinion be necessary to find a loco specifially detailed for Lines West.

If you want to be very accurate, search for an MP 229 report for some time in the era you want.    this was a list of motive power assignments for maintainence put out monthly.     If locos were assigned to a given roundhouse for maintenance, it is highly likely it spent at least some of its time working that area.

Dear Ken,

With the PRR having close to 5k, the 2-8-0 H class would be my choice if I were looking for a" layout" loco to pull a freight with a N-6 cabin car bringing up the rear.

Key, MTH, Weaver, CLW/Saginaw,Sunset and Westside  have all made 2 rail models of the various H class locos and in my collection(8) the MTH, Weaver and CLW/Saginaw had the Lines West tender. You can even buy all the parts from Franny Pfeil for the never made Sunnyside H10.

MTH #22-3563-2 is the only H-10 available with DCC/Proto 3.

While I never met a L1 Mike I didn't like, the H class is the best bet.

Regards, John P.Dunn Sr. Scale2 Rail Promotions

Strasburg Shows 04/09 , 08/10 , 10/12/2019

Good information, thank you!  I’m not knowledgeable enough about PRR to know what is correct, it seems most photographers back in the day concentrated on big mainline power and trains and ignored the little stuff.  Not having to worry about a Lines West tender would make things easier, I think.

I just found this older H thread on the 3R side of the board.  High praise for the 1990s Key versions of the H8sc, H9s and H10s.

https://ogrforum.com/...how-about-a-prr-h10?

Weaver did a Pennsy A-5, 0-4-0

Weaver Pennsy G5 4-6-0 

Weaver Pennsy  H10 2-8-0

Weaver L1s  2-8-2 Mikado.

Sunset Thirdrail Pennsy E6 Atlantic

 K-Line B6  0-6-0 

Weaver C1 0-8-0  Yard goat

Most were three rail, there were two rail models. 

In selecting a PRR  branch line locomotive it is hard to beat a class H10s.  Though initially built for Lines West (of Pittsburgh), following WWII H10's were assigned system-wide.  (A number of H8 and H9 locomotives also were rebuilt into H10s).  Class H10s locomotives were  delivered with high hood coal compartment tenders, but by the late postwar era most had been rebuilt with different coal boards - or received tenders from other classes of locomotives.  I chose to apply number to my unpainted Key H10 as the prototype trailed a LW tender into the 50's.  Below are my very subjective rankings of O scale PRR H10's models:

*****, $$$$  Key H10s (by Samhongsa) and imported around 1989 in painted and unpainted versions. Accurate dimensions, good detail, great runner (coasting drive), Lines West tender.  Hard to find but they show up at O scale shows and on eBay.  Key also brought in H9s and H8sb Pennsy 2-8-0's. with very different classes of tenders. (see photos below)

***, $$$  MTH  Die cast H10s (2 and 3 rail)  rugged construction,  but with slightly compromised appearance due to casting thickness. 

**, $$ Central Locomotive Works kit built models.  Often found on tables at O scale shows.  The ones I had were good runners. Kits were offered over many years (originally by Saginaw) with incremental improvements over the years.  The mid production (1970's) version is preferred as they had lost wax brass driver centers and photo etched brass LW or Lines East low side tenders. Late kits had industrial plastic driver centers.  Downsides include thick cab walls, walks,  smokebox front, and open frame DC motor in the cab.

**  $$  Weaver H10s.  This model was also built by Samhongs and used some the same detail parts as found on the Key model.  Like many brass O scale models offered in 2 and 3 rail versions by Williams and Weaver compromises were made in front end dimensions to clear oversized high rail flanges on the leading truck and lead driver.  In the case of the H10 they extended the pilot (fixable) and  elongated the smokebox.   As a result the model doesn't look quite as chunky as the prototype. 

Factory painted Key H10s 

My H10s 9978 along with Key H9s and H8sb  (I'll weather that H9). 

A note, I notice a photo of the Weaver Diecast C1.    I would avoid this model in 2 rail for a couple of reasons.   

First it is not a typical branch line loco - it was a very heavy 080 and tended to stay in yards.   

Second, the weaver version has rigid side rods, the rods connecting the drivers to each other.   On typical "better" models these rods are hinged to allow the drivers to adjust a little on curves.    With the rigid ones when the lead drivers enter a curve, it forces the rear ones away from curve.    Think of a parallelogram formed by the lead and trailing driver axles and the side rods that is rigid.    I had one of these and gave  up and sold it because it kept stalling on 50 inch radius curves.

If you really like the C1, a brass version can usually be found imported by USHobbies or Max Grey.    the USH version is the newer and better model because it has better castings instead of some turnings.     They both run well.   I had to replace the motor in an MG version because it was very very slow.   

From a prototype dimensions perspective the MG C1 is the more accurate model as it has a correct diameter boiler, while the later USH is  oversized (The USH-KTM model took a shortcut and reused the same brass coined smokebox front as on their M1 and I1).  No question that mechanically and small detail wise the USH is superior.   I was lucky to purchase Frank Miller's up detailed MG C1 and later had Joe Foeherkolb turn down the flanges and install a NWSL gearbox driven by a Pittman can motor.  I'll install a DCC sound decoder and re-paint and letter it per postwar PRR practice (widely spaced PENNSYLVANIA on the tender, and DGLE cab roof).  

I’m thinking a Key H10s may be the one to get...

This is currently on ebay. On my watch list because it's nice, but I am a 3 railer so I won't be bidding.  N6b with offset cupola is somewhat hard to find.  As to post war, I don't know exactly if this was around, but I will say that I watch a lot of prr videos and the n6b lived a long full life, maybe until end of steam or beyond. 

I have seen many more offset MG N6b cabins at shows than center cupola.    I have picked up 2-3 over the  years.   I would like to find a center cupola version too.    I think they paint up very well.

I have been watching that MG N6b, too - but this morning a PSC center coupola N6b popped up with an irresistible buy-it-now price.  That’s what kicked off the current locomotive inquiry.

prrjim posted:

A note, I notice a photo of the Weaver Diecast C1.    I would avoid this model in 2 rail for a couple of reasons.   

First it is not a typical branch line loco - it was a very heavy 080 and tended to stay in yards.   

Second, the weaver version has rigid side rods, the rods connecting the drivers to each other.   On typical "better" models these rods are hinged to allow the drivers to adjust a little on curves.    With the rigid ones when the lead drivers enter a curve, it forces the rear ones away from curve.    Think of a parallelogram formed by the lead and trailing driver axles and the side rods that is rigid.    I had one of these and gave  up and sold it because it kept stalling on 50 inch radius curves.

If you really like the C1, a brass version can usually be found imported by USHobbies or Max Grey.    the USH version is the newer and better model because it has better castings instead of some turnings.     They both run well.   I had to replace the motor in an MG version because it was very very slow.   

I had this model when it first came out, it did not track well at all. I would strongly suggest maybe a MTH version. 

No worries - I have no interest at all in a 0-8-0, only in a 2-8-0 or (possibly) a 2-8-2.

I should sell my L1.  I have no real love for it, and I am an SPF.  

I saw an N6b off-center caboose in Philadelphia in 1960, and was tantalized.  One of my favorite cabooses.  I like the N6a as well.

If you buy CLW, get one that runs.  That way you are sure all the pieces are there.

Which L1 did you have, Bob?

The recent Sunset L1s is the most dimensionally correct and best detailed O scale PRR L1s produced to date.  It also has a good running drive.  The MG and USH KTM built 2-8-2's have the same oversize smoke box that the C1, has an open frame motor, and lack cab detail.    The Williams and Weaver Samhongsa built PRR L1's suffer from elongated boilers  created to clear 3 rail flanges. Both KTM and Samhongsa modeled their L1s 90F75 tenders using drawings found in Kalmbach's Locomotice Cyclopedia that erroneously had the coal bunker too long - noticeable when comparing the models to photos as it missed the proportions of coal board to  tender deck.  Sunset used PRR archive drawings to avoid this mistake.  If you want a PRR L1s 2-8-2 my recommendation is the Sunset 3rd Rail model.

A Precision Scale  N6b would be a great branch line cabin car to accompany a H10s or L1s.   The model has the underbody detail the otherwise nice MG models lack.  N6 cabins ran into the post steam era. 

Ken:

What is your e-mail address?

Jim

Ken- not sure.  I think it is USH.  It is under glass.  I can look.  Custom painted and weathered a very long time ago.