Ross/GG vs Fastrack cost

I dont really think that Ross/Gargraves is aimed at the same market as fastrack. Figure cork is about $2 per 3' section and gargraves is $7 for a 37" piece, its $9 per 3 feet once you add in the screws.

A 30"+10" piece of Fastrack is nearly $20. Ballast isnt cheap, but its not $12 for 3' worth either.

If you use all Ross track + Ross' roadbed, it can get fairly expensive quick. But keep in mind, fastrack is snap and go, ross or gargraves is going to be a bit more fiddly. The measurements of Ross sectional track seems to be a suggestion. Most Ross 10" straights tend to be in the 10 7/16" range, and need to be trimmed if you need exactly 10.

Whether its worth it is up to you. For a permanent install, I'd use the ross or Ross/GG combo. If you're going to pull it up and down a bunch of times, I would go with something like fastrack.

Larry, I had a small investment in Atlas switches and track a while back (approx 6-8 switches) and decided to make the move to Ross/GG when I built my larger layout (20+ switches).  The GG is very easy to use and I did most of my curves with flex track.  For the Ross switches, they are a little pricey but if you do a little at a time can be manageable (for example, if you have a double mainline, and want to hold off on cross over switching, just wait on it and save the expense for now).  I found the Atlas switches to be too fragile so they are sitting in a box.  If I was more invested in Atlas, I would have probably stayed with them.  I think your choice depends on your sunk costs with Fastrack.  I have nothing but great things to say about the Ross/GG combo.  I don't bother with the Rossbed but use the usual homasote and gravel ballast.  Tortoise machines underneath.  All works and looks great in my view.  Good luck!

Thanks for the input.  In all fairness, I was basing my ballpark estimates on all sectional pieces.  It does make sense that bending curves would reduce the expense.  I've always used Fastrack so I have no experience with bending curves.

Larry, I don't know how easy GG flex is to bend, but I'll assume it will depend on how tight your curves are. Here's a short video showing how to work with GG flex:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJOEzT58HsE

Also, cost is not the only factor. Ross makes more different switches than anyone else and that can really enhance a design. I'm increasing the useable space in my planned yard by using Ross curved switches vice using standard switches.

Thanks Dave!  Your right, it's not just cost.  I do like the look and flexibility of the Ross/GG combination.  I'm starting to rethink my position!  

One caveat is that the Ross/GG combo "seems" to almost require some track cutting. There's another thread about reversing loops and the Ross/GG combo won't connect using standard track like other brands do. This by itself is probably not important, but I'm left wondering what else might not connect and require cutting.

I was leaning toward Ross/Atlas, but have been told I won't be able to bed Atlas flex more than O81. Since I have a small 12x13 space, I need to use O54 curves. I probably won't need to bend flex that much, but I'm also left wondering how far and how easily I can bend GG flex. I don't mind cutting, I have a rotary tool, so it's just something to research further.

Just my two cents---I agree with going with Gargraves---but their switches made these days are ten to twenty cheaper than Ross and many people claim that these switches work perfectly.  I have Gargraves everything and couldn't be happier.  EXCEPT, there is no argument that a majority of people swear by Ross turnouts and absolutely they make the widest variety by far; and I enjoy Steve Ross' writing.  :-)  I will be buying Ross 4-way in the very near future.  I'm just cheap and buying Gargraves for the "regular" 100 diameter turnouts--which are awesome!

Nothing says ALL switches have to be one or the other brand either.

I visited the Rochester PAL Model Railroad Heaven (from the Bantam Books) layouts today, and the Spring layout has been refitted this year with the latest GarGraves switches, and they are magnificent.  They have the DZ-1000 switch machines.

Spring was done over with a completely new track plan with GarGraves track & switches 25-30 years ago using the plastic-base, swivel rail 100" GarGraves Phantom switches that were available at the time.  All of the murals/backdrops done in 1950 are still intact.

Both refits were done with materials donated by the Roders at GarGraves Trackage Corp.

Dave you can bend Gargraves Track to about a 12 diameter circle.  I did it for a snow plow I have just to see.  As far as how easy is it to bend...it's an acquired technique.  I actually, no kidding, center it in the middle of my chest and gently begin bending it around my ribs.  Then I took that and bent it just again slightly around the femur of my leg...from there just kept gently working it down.  It looked completely stupid.  Therefore, I'm in the process of building my own 8" turntable to about-face the rotary!

Thanks, John, that's good to know. One thing I've noticed to is that by using SCARM and RR-Track I too often get hung up on all the short pieces needed to make things fit. I understand that is I use and cut flextrack, being anal about things fitting in the software is, well, anal.

If you have not read the ad on page three of the February/March 2014 OGR you may want to take a look at the open letter from Steve Brenneisen. 

Track is the foundation of the operation of your railroad and the worst place to base your decision on price.  For a smooth, reliable layout, buy the best you can find.  Low price track is no bargain if you have to replace it like many of the folks posting above have done.

Yeah, the Ross switches cost more, but since the start of this forum, no one has ever written about replacing Ross switches because of operating problems.  Here is one place you definitely get what you pay for.

John, I like using the Simulation feature in RR-Track and that means I have to get things to join properly, otherwise the simulation stops at the bad joints. Plus there are a lot of folks who don't want to cut, so I strive to make things "fit" for them. As Strogey found out in another thread, oftentimes the smaller fitters aren't really needed, so I always advise against buying them beforehand.

Even though I now know GarGraves will flex quite a bit, I haven't decided yet if I'll use it for my O54 curves. It's one thing to bend it when you have space for larger curves, but I worry about bending it unevenly on tighter curves, though I suppose I can always make a template to avoid that. I do plan to use it for all the straight sections to add gentle curves, so I will be doing plenty of cutting. My experience with HO flex years ago was before I had a rotary tool, so I'm hopeful having one now will make the job easier. My problem with HO was joining the track properly in the middle of curves. No matter what I did, I always seemed to end up with a "kink" at many of the joints. Hopefully, I'll learn how to do things better with O scale.

If you are planning small curves I would spend the extra money and get the preformed Gargraves curves.  We used them on the Children's Museum layout and it made track laying quick and simple with no problems after over a year oh heavy use.

To be honest, cost is my last concern (relative to other costs of the hobby). Granted, I don't like to waste money, but cost will only tip the scales between 2 brands that will both get the job done equally well. I have no problem buying curved sections vs trying to bend flextrack to O54, even though flex would cost less than half. My only 2 concerns are appearance and noise, especially when mixing Atlas or GarGraves with Ross. My guess is both are pretty equal in both categories, so it might come down to price and the ease of bending GarGraves vs Atlas.

John

It is The Children's Museum of the Treasure Coast in Indian Riverside Park, Jensen Beach, FL.  It was a TCA Southern Division sponsored project.  The track and roadbed were generously donated by Don Roder at GarGraves.

Getting back to the original topic...  As luck would have it, I attended the World's Greatest Hobby Tour in Cleveland today and actually met Steve Ross Brenneisen from Ross Custom Switches.  I was very impressed.  He was very helpful and answered all of my questions.  I've made my decision and will be moving from Fastrack to Ross/GG!

Good for you Larry. Your decision brings me one step closer to me making the same decision. I'll be heading to GA/FL in a few weeks and I'm going to try to find a hobby shop along the way who sells GarGraves so I can take a look at it before I make my final decision.

Much to my disappointment, I am finding that out. I was just going to start a new thread when I saw your post, so I'll just comment here since Larry has made his decision.

Earlier last week I started to convert my design to Atlas. However, when I saw Larry's comment, I decided to convert it to Ross/GG first. I quickly discovered that there is no way to make a 90 degree corner turn using a Ross O54 turnout with GG O54 curves, at least not without cutting a curve or using some flextrack. That's because the Ross turnout is 30 degrees and the GG curves are 45 degrees. Using Ross O54 curves works fine because they are also 30 degrees.

I have no problem doing this, but I can't help but wonder what the result is going to look like. Are Ross and GG close enough in appearance that it won't be too noticeable? I probably shouldn't care, but I do.

Dave,  

Not sure if this helps, but I will be using Ross switches and sectional curves.  I will only use GG for straight pieces, of which I will cut to fit.  I believe the Ross curves are more consistent than the GG, as someone has mentioned before. I read somewhere that the GG sectional curves are nominal sizes rather than exact sizes.  

Larry, that's what I plan to do also based on what I found out tonight. I don't know if there's anything wrong with the GG curves per se. I suspect it's that they use 45 degree segments for so many of their curves where others only use 45 for their O42 and tighter curves. They even differ between curves with wood and plastic ties which seems really weird. When I first aw this I thought it was going to be a deal breaker, but after thinking about it, I guess it's not that big a deal. It sure will be a pain flip flopping back and forth between libraries in RR-Track. I guess I'll learn how to use GG flextrack, so I can pull one and duplicate it while working from the Ross library. GG sectional straights leave a lot to be desired too and I suspect most users use a lot of flex and/or do a lot of cutting.