RTR Polar Express smoke capacity?

Your not going to get a lot of smoke out of those but 4-8 drops you should be ok.    Just add more when it runs out, or as you did shut it off.

Four drops for half an hour is pretty good, you should feed a fan driven smoke unit!

That was approximately 1/2 hour play time that includes the locomotive sitting idle. It doesn't smoke standing still. Also, smoke intensity is based upon speed. Although my grandson often runs it at about 150 SMPH.  So, in reality the 4 drops provides about 15 minutes of smoke.

I'll try 6 drops next time.

You also shouldnt let it idle for extended periods of time. It burns out quicker.   Even 15 of smoke mins isnt bad at all.   Usually more like 10 mins of smoke is good....

LC turns off the smoke when it's stopped, so it doesn't burn anything out stopped.

News to me..  LC +  i know does, but the current LC  PE sets directions warns about leaving the smoke units on when idling....

From the lionel manual....

When the smoke unit switch is in the ON position, always keep a small amount of smoke fluid in the locomotive’s smoke generator; the generator’s element can become damaged if operated without smoke fluid. This is particularly true if your locomotive sits in neutral for an extended period of time without smoke fluid in the generator.

I put about 8 drops in and get a good run with it.  But you have to be careful you put it right in the center so you don't spill any over to the chuffers holes, which then end up all over the frame and bottom of your loco.

Train Nut posted:

From the lionel manual....

When the smoke unit switch is in the ON position, always keep a small amount of smoke fluid in the locomotive’s smoke generator; the generator’s element can become damaged if operated without smoke fluid. This is particularly true if your locomotive sits in neutral for an extended period of time without smoke fluid in the generator.

 

The manual does say that, but it seems like a contradiction. If it doesn't smoke at idle, why would the generator's heating element be active?

The element stays on heating at idle but the smoke isnt pushed out till the manaul piston starts pushing out air when the train is moving.   If you look in the stack when idling you'll  see it smoldering/smoke in the chamber...

At least in the current model, and the 10th year anniversary model editions, the smoke unit is turned off when the engine is not moving.  The board actually cuts all power to the smoke unit until the first speed step in either direction is reached.  If I recall correctly, however, it does apply the full voltage to the element any time the engine is moving.  

In any case, you will likely get a bit better performance from the smoke unit by adding 4 or 5 drops of fluid, then waiting a couple minutes and adding a couple more, allowing the wicking time to soak up the fluid.  From what I can tell there is little to be damaged by overfilling the puffer smoke units, but you will make a mess if you use too much fluid, as it will leak out of the unit.  

JGL

10th anniversary  set manual says the same thing - Damage may occur if left dry while idling.  

 If it shuts off what damage could occur??   Maybe Lionel is wrong??   Wouldn't  surprise me! Lol.

It's not uncommon for Lionel to copy-n-paste from earlier manuals and miss changes in the design.  The whole point of routing the smoke output through the circuit board was to be able to shut it off when stopped to avoid cooking the smoke unit.

Do we know this for a fact?  Or was it to give a constant voltage to smoke regardless of track voltage.  One reason they do not smoke in idle is the piston is not moving. G

GGG posted:

Do we know this for a fact?  Or was it to give a constant voltage to smoke regardless of track voltage.  One reason they do not smoke in idle is the piston is not moving. G

Well, I'm going by what John said, and what I've observed in the past.  I have no LC (not plus) stuff to look at right now, so I can't actually check.

JohnGaltLine posted:

At least in the current model, and the 10th year anniversary model editions, the smoke unit is turned off when the engine is not moving.  The board actually cuts all power to the smoke unit until the first speed step in either direction is reached.  If I recall correctly, however, it does apply the full voltage to the element any time the engine is moving. 

Perhaps you don't believe his observation, but he sounds pretty positive, and I know he has at least one to check.

As bad as Lionel is in some ways with communications, updates, and quality issues. I'll continue to go by what they recommend and when my engines are idling for any extended period of time, just shut the power off or reach over and flip the smoke switch off.

A dumb question is one that doesn't get asked, or one that has just been answered but the inquirer wasn't paying attention; therefore:

What is LC and LC+?

Thx!

Alex

Ingeniero No1 posted:

A dumb question is one that doesn't get asked, or one that has just been answered but the inquirer wasn't paying attention; therefore:

What is LC and LC+?

Thx!

Alex

LC = LionChief   https://lionelllc.wordpress.co...he-lionchief-remote/

LC+ = LionChief Plus    https://lionelllc.wordpress.co...troducing-lionchief/

GGG posted:

Do we know this for a fact?  Or was it to give a constant voltage to smoke regardless of track voltage.  One reason they do not smoke in idle is the piston is not moving. G

This is what I assume is the current version of the Polar Express, from the 6-30218 set I purchased at Henning's around the first of November, 2016.  I've not taken apart the 10th anniversary version I own, as it is packed away, but it seems to behave the same way.  While not quite zero, the 0.15 volts at idle is hardly enough to heat the element in any meaningful way.  The first few steps of movement show the element receiving about 3.5 volts, then it rises to 5 volts as you move into higher speeds.  

I would note that it is possible that the engine will not actually move on the track in those first couple speed steps, so you would want to make sure the remote is actually set to the stop position to turn off the unit, and this may be why the warning still remains in the instructions.  More likely it is just left over from older, conventional, engines.  

JGL

Let's see, 18 ohms, .15 volts, that would be a monster 0.00125 watts!   I don't think that will heat the resistor much.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Let's see, 18 ohms, .15 volts, that would be a monster 0.00125 watts!   I don't think that will heat the resistor much.

That's exactly what I was thinking.  The smoke unit here is effectively turned off when the engine is not set to moving.  

JGL