RUNNING 21" PASSENGER CARS ON YOUR LAYOUT?

Yes.

18 and 21 inch.   Using Atlas O 0-90 curves...........

Used to have 0-72 and 21 inch were able to run but looked really funny.

Mark

Yes

Absolutely. Sold off the 18" cars. I do have a few 20" passenger cars.

0138 on one end of the layout, 089 on the other. Overall 072 minimum although there are just a few curves that small.

There is just something about watching a 21" passenger consit going around a 0120 super elevated curve!

No, 18"

21 inch on the club layout, 18 and 15 on home layout.

Charlie

They would look ridiculous on my O54 curves!

Peter

No. 18"

Yes. My curves are 072 or greater.

No, 15".  O72 minimum curves, but the on-the-curve aesthetics are better....IMHO, of course...even at that 'wide' radius curve.

BTW, been said a bazillion times, but for those of you (like me) who've dabbled in HO (gasp!), an O72 curve is the equivalent of an 18" radius HO curve.  THAT's when I learned how ridiculous....MHO, again, and TEHO, I say...full length passenger cars look even if they're able to take that curve......and not too many do, either!!!!

Recalling the rail-riding days of my youth (1940's-50's), that wild car-to-car excursion twixt the gyrating diaphragms heading to the diner, dome, or observation car....and back...made me wince when I saw what l-o-n-g cars on short radii curves would do to my poor 1:48 ridership as they made the same journey.  They deserve a leaping chance, anyway!!!

Hey, as good as they look, they're still 'toys' to me....and toys, freedom, and imagination are my three amigos of the hobby!

KD

I plan on it as I have several consists of 21"(Lionel,K-Line) and 18" (MTH,Williams) passenger cars.

No, I max out at 054 as well.

I bought a set of Atlas 21 inch Amtrak passenger cars and used them on 042 curves. My only problem was I needed to run a larger engine(SD-45) with them on the curves or the first car derailed when into the first curved section.

Lee Fritz

Yes, Lionel and MTH, Weaver, Williams 18" and the K Line CZ 21" passenger consist.  Also like the K Line 18" Golden State sets in consists with St Fe D110/109/110 motive power.  I have minimum 72" up to 96" curves with super elevation and maximum 3% grades.

Agree 1,000% 

Everybody makes their own decisions on what "looks" right for them, and who can live with what.  But I would agree... once you see 21" passenger cars on truly broad radius track, (i.e., O-120 or even greater), there's no going back to smaller radii... unless of course you have 15" or 18" passenger cars for the smaller radii curves. 

David

18 inch cars  on 072 and 084

Brent

21 inch cars with 0-72 track.  

Have run K-line 21's in the past and next week 21 Atlas CZ on 112, 104, 96, 86, 80 loops just completed. Hope to have pictures of trial runs. Atlas 21 CZ's do not like all 072.

Buzz

18 and 21" on 072 track. I have changed my mind over the years on this topic. I used to like the 18" only.  The proportion of the 21" car to the engine and shear size of the cars have me looking past the overhang. I think the Atlas CZ cars have forced me to rethink priorities. Now when running 21" cars I find myself looking past the movement to the train as a whole. And as a whole it is a fine looking train.

Yes, along with 18" sets and a few 16" sets.  On Atlas O curves varying from O81 to O108.  The O72 curves will be in yards only.  At least, that is the plan! 

I used to have 15" cars.  But my son liked how longer cars looked better.   Most of our passenger car fleet is 18" Lionel Amfleets.   But our MBTA comunter train has Altas 21" Comet cars.   I wish they were 18".  21" is too long.   I have O-72 on the outer loop.  But the MBTA needs to run on the O-60 loop for access to the stations it serves.   Here's photos of its journey.

In the main station next to the Lionel 18" Amfleets.

Around the first O-60 curve.

Sneaking through a O60 switch and then a O-48 curve.   The only option because of the space.

Don't try to snake through a O-36 crossover.  The result is not good.   Luckily the 180watt brick has a fast breaker!

They will make it through a O-36 switch if there is enough straight pieces after the switch.

18's and 15's here.  Using 0-72, O-63 and 0-54.

I have a set of K-line Milwaukee Road 21" cars, but I haven't put them on the layout yet. I've been using one of the Lionel auto racks and an Atlas flat car to test clearances on curves. They're pretty close to 21" anyway.

I know there will be some trouble spots. I'm planning to fix the big helix, the supports on the inside of the curve are too close for long cars. I may do the outside supports as well for the Challenger and Big Boy. When I built the helix 12 years ago, these monster cars and engines didn't exist.

21" cars here, 120" minimum diameter super elevated curves, and I think they still don't look quite right. Next layout 2 rail and 70" radius curves.  

Clem k

On my layout it is the Lionel Big Boy and the Lionel auto carriers that need the most inter-track width. They both navigate 072 very easily. My issue is with the Atlas 21" CZ passenger cars. The trucks are prevented from rotating far enough by the car skirt, to not have issues with 072 track I have used a minimum 076 on the mains where things are tight.

Buzz

I used to have 18" only, but have fallen in love with 21' in spite of the overhang.  All new cars will be 21" for me.  I have 072 minimum and 081 & 090 where ever possible.  Unfortunately all my passenger cars look bad going through my 072 switches at my Union Station yard throat, but I didn't feel I had any choice due to space constraints.

Art

Yes, big fan of the 21" cars.

View them as you would any real train, at or close to eye level. Many who talk about the overhang seem to view their trains from the air, or at least what I might consider a fly over view. Buildings don't look great from this view either, nor do most if any aspects of a layout.

18" cars on the 0120 curves. 21" cars on the 0144 curves.  18" cars on the 0144 looks the best as far as overhang goes.

55" height decking hides the overhang.

Tom is right - O-144 curves minimum.

I use the 21" cars only for open house at the Toy Train Museum, which has quite a large layout with curves between 72" and 120". I ran a set of scale Weaver Hiawatha streamlined cars  at our last open house. My home layout has 072 on the outer loop, but it's way too small for 21" cars. I run mainly 15" K-Line cars and RK heavyweights,, occasionally 18".

On the bottom "main" elevation of my layout, I have in use what trackage I had available, collected through the years of working out-of-state.  Yes, I use 072 tubular, mixed with Gargraves, Ross and Atlas.  All mainlines, five total on 4 elevations, are 072 tubular.  Engine and passenger service facilities are Gargraves and Atlas.  My next deck, to be 24" above the bottom deck, will be all Atlas and I plan to be able having 120" ,and perhaps wider, radii.  I am restricted to 26 ft by 28 ft size for the layout, that limits the curves somewhat.  But, I run my Big Boy, Challengers, Niagara, DD40X and 5 different UP turbines with no difficulty, along with 18" and 21" various roads passenger consists.   If I didn't have shelves and display cases, extend to wall running and wider radii..?   Hmmmmmmmm..........

Yes, on 072 curves.  I recently replaced three 90 degree sections of 054 curves with 072 so I could add a depot to my layout and get the passenger train to it.  A lot of effort but worth it.  Bigger would have been even better but I don't feel like replacing ALL the track work right now.

I do have 1 or 2 prototypically shorter cars, things like baggage and diners, but coaches, sleepers, and the rest are prototypically full-length.

This is the train I watched from my bedroom window growing up.  I agree, the 18" cars would be better, these look longer than the real thing! lol. 

As for myself, I always had small postwar layouts, so 15" cars were the best I could do.  It was a big deal when I upgraded the outer loop to O-42.  They still overhang a bit more than I like, but I'm satisfied. 

I saw a youtube video of someone running a postwar Canadian Pacific passenger set on an O-27 layout.  I remember thinking "why?!?!"  It looked horrible, and that train was struggling. 

Yes, the 21" ers look great... I just tend to look the other way when they are going around an O72.

My lower deck has O72 and the longer passenger cars look odd. Never again. My upper has O90 and above. They look way better.

Checking clearances with a JLC Big boy is a must!

I quit buying 18" cars over a year ago.

Once you see a beautiful 21" passenger car train on 72" radius or larger (0-144) you'll never look back....

I do on 60" and 64" radius. If the track is closer to eyelevel it makes a difference. At eyelevel, if you are looking at it from the inside of the curve it looks better than looking at it from the outside of the curve. Of course it looks better on wider curves but you have to do what you have to do.

Here is a train on 64" curves.

I want to see pictures of your layout!

I have O-104 and O-96 and even 18" passenger cars have an unrealistic overhang on the curves. Even if I could manage O-200 diameter curves I doubt I would be interested in 21" long cars ~ except maybe if I had a layout the size of a football field.