Running O-Gauge Trains like Real Trains

I have to say I have a moderate interest in trying this out and have considered doing so with a local HO group to see what it's like.  I can imagine that with a group of people it would be a lot of fun.  I can't see doing it at home though.

Thank you for sharing this, perhaps one day I will take the time to join the HO guys for operations.

Years ago I was invited to a HO club in California where they had a 10' X 40' layout separated in half lengthwise by a 3 foot high scenic board so you could not see the other side's operations.  They had phone dispatching/orders, slips of paper and cars had to be dropped off and pick up at various industrial areas and towns on either side of layout.  Boy, I learned a lot about real railroading that day.  I can only describe it as semi-controlled chaos with some fun and humorous times mixed in.  Running their trains at near scale speeds helped.

I run my trains on my layout slow but have never thought about organizing for real train operations.  One thing I learned though....it takes lots of practice with the same people doing the individual tasks.  Very interesting thread.

Steve, Lady and Tex

Thanks for the pictures Bill. Looks like a good turn out, and a good time. Hope to be able to make next months meeting. 

Thanks for posting. Great pictures, and looks like a very nice layout. I have been reading about operations also and find it very interesting. Would like to hear and learn more also. There is a lot to learn! There was a post yesterday where someone explained how the railroads get paid, also very interesting!

Joining a club, which would most likely be HO around here, is probably the only way I would ever be able to learn all this. Would definitely be good to have someone with experience to learn from and see it all first hand.

For anyone who enjoys performing switching cars on their layout, you almost have to operate like the real RRs, or at least closely follow some sort of sequence/purpose just to get the cars into a siding.  Maybe having written down rules is a bit much, but following some guidelines can make for a enjoyable session of train running.

When a train full of cars magically appears on my inbound/outbound (online/offline) track, I use one of my switchers to sort the cars according to the order of the industries receiving them (also depends on which way the train goes, clockwise or counter-clockwise onto the  layout).

Once I get the cars in order I hook up a caboose and I run the switcher back into its siding.  Then I pull the local engine out of its siding and hookup to complete the train.

Once the train is made up I pull out and run a few laps around the track until I feel it's time to deliver the goods.  As I pick up and set out cars I try to get them in an orderly fashion so I don't have to perform any more moves than necessary.  Once I've set out all the deliveries and picked up all the cars going back offline I hookup the caboose and engine to make up a train again and head back to the outbound/inbound staging area/yard.

It really does take a lot of attention (and practice) to do this smoothly.  Depending on the length of the train and where the cars are going it can get tedious and it'll have the engineer (me) scrambling not to make mistakes.

I look at it almost like playing a game.  Most of us that play games take it somewhat seriously when we do, so why not treat the movement of a train in the same manner.

Like the young female British golfer Charley Hull said when asked what does she do when she makes a bad shot, her answer was..."I'm not going to die if I hit a bad shot, am I".  Same thing with running your layout, nobody's gonna day today if a mistake is made (but it's fun when you don't make any).

Often done in the smaller scales, but rarely seen in the 3-rail O gauge world.  I have visited clubs and even one or two home layouts (big home layouts) where this kind of operating session was performed among group members, but it does require some real expertise to set this kind of thing up.

There's certainly nothing to preclude this being done in the 3-rail world on a more frequent basis.  Might even be a whole lot easier than with the smaller scales.

Looks like you guys had a lot of fun. Thanks for sharing.

Such operations are a lot of fun. My friend Chugman often holds run sessions where he replicates real worlds operations. You have to have the right layout to do this correctly.

I'm not sure how well this will show, but here is the track plan. You can see the names of the various locations, yards, and sidings.

Bill....this is very interesting thread.  I have been to several layouts where operating sessions have been timed with a "fast clock" in which an entire day's worth of real world like movements along the line take place.  I have set up my layout to do something like this on a much smaller basis.  There are a few sidings to industries and a large freight and passenger yard.  I once delivered 50 coal hoppers to the yard by backing them into various yard tracks...sure was fun!  I must admit that it adds a lot of action and interest but I also like to just run the trains and watch them go through the urban landscape in the layout....

Thanks for sharing this with us!!

Alan

Wow, a prototypical operation thread!  Outstanding!

My layout was designed from the start for prototypical operation.  I host regular operating sessions (average about two per month) and have been doing this since September of 2004. 

For all of the photos and diagrams below, click to see a larger version or right click and "open link in new tab" for a full-screen version.

Here is the schematic diagram for my layout.  It is point to point with staging yards in Harrisburg, Pittsburgh and Cumberland.

Harrisburg and Pittsburgh are shown as return loops on the schematic because physically they are large multi-track return loops in an adjacent room to the main layout room.  The two yards are stacked: Pittsburgh on top and Harrisburg below with 16 inches between them.

Here is the track plan of the layout, courtesy of OGR from a 2003 article.  It doesn't look linear point to point but it is.  There are no loops.

The operating crew is about a dozen people: a dispatcher, Annville Yardmaster, Annville Yard Switcher, Annville Hostler and 5 to 6 road crews at any given point in time.  We run sequence of 20 over the road trains and 3 switch jobs within yard limits over the course of about 4 hours.

Here is the dispatcher's office.

Train crews pick up and set out cars according to computer-generated switch lists and meet and/or pass other trains as directed by the dispatcher.  Crews must also watch the trackside signals and stop if the signal says so.

Lots of information and photos on how the layout is operated can be found on my website linked in my signature.  Late in 2014, OGR will have a feature article and will release a DVD containing descriptions of how we operate the layout.  Like others have said above, it is big fun for all involved.

Here is a link to a video preview of my layout on TrainMasters TV.  It is a 2-minute teaser but does give a taste of the layout's operation.  You might need to download Apple Quicktime (works on both Mac and PC) in order to play the video.

http://www.trainmasters.tv/vid...pennsylvania-western

All I can say is VERY cool.Nick

TexasSP,

I was invited to an HO operating session, wow, opened up a whole new world. I have a lot of thanks and admiration for those guys who took me under their wing. I just recieved an email this morning , inviting me to join them again this thursday. Great bunch of guys. Always willing to share their knowledge.

I also was priveleged to be invited by Bob Bartizek. (see his post above).

Bob is a first class guy. absolutely gorgeous layout with realistic operating sessions. Bob provided a turning point in how myself and family members look at "running trains".

It opened up a whole new world. Many thanks to Bob and the others who where so gracious in sharing their layouts, their time and expierance. 

Great thread

For those who are not familiar with operations, here is a youtube link to a Lionel Fastrack layout using operations as a purpose in operating his 3 rail trains. This is a very simplified , easy to understand the purpose in operations.

This is something many 3 railers can use to start operations. The sky is the limit from here. Enjoy!

http://youtu.be/4P0XFSl7wv0

After you get the bug for realistic operations, the sky is the limit.

Check this out

http://youtu.be/q20lMiD0IHs

Posted by Allan Miller:

There's certainly nothing to preclude this being done in the 3-rail world on a more frequent basis.  Might even be a whole lot easier than with the smaller scales.

Allan,

 The most likely reasons that you don't see it in 3 rail as much is :

3 Rail simply needs more room to model a similar scene.

The Couplers, the standard 3 rail Lobster Claws just don't offer the operational flexibity of "KaDee" style knuckle couplers. The lobster claws need an uncoupler AT any location that uncoupling cuts of cars would be desired. also Lobster claws often need a high ramming speed to couple. Using "KaDee" style couplers would really help, but not many 3 Rail cars are really designed to accept then. Also because of the much smaller number of users for the "O" scale size Kadees, there is not the economy of large production numbers to help bring the price down. Between the extra work installing them, and the extra price for "O" scale Kadees, they just haven't gained the defacto standard that they have in HO.

Fewer modelers in "O" than in the smaller scales, this makes it harder to assemble a larger group to help create a club that could build a large layout to support operations like this.

I would Love to have the functions of Kadee's, I gained my appreciation for them through several years with a Large HO Club here in Portland.

After I WIN the Lottery, having the space and funds to create a large "O" layout will not be a problem, and Hopefully finding members to help operate it wont be to hard

Doug

The Couplers, the standard 3 rail Lobster Claws just don't offer the operational flexibity of "KaDee" style knuckle couplers. The lobster claws need an uncoupler AT any location that uncoupling cuts of cars would be desired. also Lobster claws often need a high ramming speed to couple.

Very reliable operation is possible with standard 3-rail couplers.  I refuse to use the derogatory "Lob**** Cl**" term for them.  If you do a little work on them (this might include installing a softer armature spring, checking a fixing any burrs and lubricating with some dry graphite) and use weighted cars (I have standardized on 18 ounces for a typical 40-foot boxcar, this is about what an Atlas car weighs out of the box) then slow coupling speeds are very possible. 

Where an industry spur is out of reach from the layout aisle, electromagnetic uncouplers are needed.  These can be salvaged very inexpensively from Lionel postwar 027 uncoupling tracks and installed anywhere you need them.  If the spur is within am arm's reach of the aisle, the 3-rail couplers can of course be opened with a finger.  The majority of my operators come from the HO world and are very familiar with Kadees.  Most of them say they prefer the way my uncouplers work as opposed to manually uncoupling Kadees with a skewer or screwdriver from above or the stop-back-go moves required when using a Kadee magnet.

Whatever floats your boat, but realistic and reliable operation is very possible with standard 3-rail couplers if you don't mind working at it a little.

Doug, if you build that big layout you shouldn't have a problem finding operators.  The HO and N guys really seem to like the size of O-scale trains.

Hi Bob,

 I admit that the stop, back, go sequence for KaDee's is less than Ideal, but to me, it is still better than only being able to drop cars exactly where there is an uncoupler. One magnet, or electromagnet can cover multiple nearby spurs, and the car/s can be spotted precisely where they are wanted, not just at the uncoupler. For ME, the S,B,G sequence is less distracting than the reaching in to manually uncouple cars, still not ideal but to me a better option.

We each choose our own Balances and Compromises, and I haven't yet made the change to KaDee's, as I don't yet even have a permanent layout, but to me I would prefer the function of the KaDee's.

I will admit, that I have used the "Standard" (Didn't mean to offend earlier) 3 Rail couplers for long enough now, that even the real couplers on full size trains look too small to me, and I am often amazed at the loads they do handle on a regular basis.

Doug

Bob,

I remember that you have mentioned that you have improved the coupler operation, could you share how it's done.

Maybe a short youtube?

A good point…somewhat unfortunately.

Yes Allan, and it seems to get more UNFORTUNATE, the further WEST you go. Way out West here less than 65 miles from the Pacific Ocean, us 3 Railers are scattered much thinner than they tend to be on the East Coast .

Doug

Don't think that you need a huge club or basement size layout to operate realistically or that you need 10 people over. It is not uncommon for an operating session to be with 2-4 operators on layouts much smaller than club or basement size.

Actually, I'm working on doing just that, putting together an operating crew. I know that O gaugers are hard to come by, especially in my area, but I expect to be able to draw in some of the guys who like operations from the local NMRA division. They might actually find it interesting in spite of the center rail.

That will be covered in the OGR DVD, coming late this year (shameless plug for our sponsor!). 

Actually, I'm working on doing just that, putting together an operating crew. I know that O gaugers are hard to come by, especially in my area, but I expect to be able to draw in some of the guys who like operations from the local NMRA division.

Out of 28 people on my combined crew call boards and extra boards, only 5 are 3-railers.  One is in N-scale, 4 are two-rail O and 18 have HO trains.