Looks like the G Killers, the AEM7's, will be replaced in a shorter period of time than the G's!
Real GG1 photo taken today (11/08/2010) as it sits in Harrisburg, Pa.
Nice lookimg 12":1' model!
That is a great photo Chessie. Interesting stories behind that GG1. While it has the slab pilot in lieu of the drop coupler pilot, it was not one of the original 57 that had the slab pilots. I have wondered whether or not the chassis is of an older G.
Anyone know?
Also, the state of PA is trying to get this G moved to a new location as Amtrak is looking to get the track back with all the improvements to the Keystone Corridor. The main problem is that it has a broken axle and is not as easy to move as it once was.
When I was riding the "Broadway Limited" from 1987-1992 on a fairly regular basis, seeing that G in Harrisburg was a highlight my trip.
Chessieman - Glad I could help you find your inner "G". The Weaver is a keeper. I like mine very much although when I tried to run my 4876 recently, it was "kaput". I need to take a peek under the hood and see what's up.
Anyone know?
Also, the state of PA is trying to get this G moved to a new location as Amtrak is looking to get the track back with all the improvements to the Keystone Corridor. The main problem is that it has a broken axle and is not as easy to move as it once was.
When I was riding the "Broadway Limited" from 1987-1992 on a fairly regular basis, seeing that G in Harrisburg was a highlight my trip.
Chessieman - Glad I could help you find your inner "G". The Weaver is a keeper. I like mine very much although when I tried to run my 4876 recently, it was "kaput". I need to take a peek under the hood and see what's up.
quote:Originally posted by GG1 4877:
That is a great photo Chessie. Interesting stories behind that GG1. While it has the slab pilot in lieu of the drop coupler pilot, it was not one of the original 57 that had the slab pilots. I have wondered whether or not the chassis is of an older G.
Thanks for the compliment, but my son took the photo of that GG1. I am proud of him because he just started a job with Norfolk Southern.
Jonathan-
I found some art for your train room or office. Click on the link and scroll down to the 11th painting.
http://www.gilbennett.com/Gallery.php
I found some art for your train room or office. Click on the link and scroll down to the 11th painting.
http://www.gilbennett.com/Gallery.php
Chessieman,
Thanks for reminding me what a fabulous artist Gil Bennett really is.
His work, simply stated, is among the 'best-of-the best' seen today. Very few living artists ever come close to achieving his extraordinary high level of ability and illustration skills.
We should all be very thankful he loves painting railroad scenes as much as he does given the limited audience interested in trains.
His website is terrific and well worth everyones visit!
Thanks for reminding me what a fabulous artist Gil Bennett really is.
His work, simply stated, is among the 'best-of-the best' seen today. Very few living artists ever come close to achieving his extraordinary high level of ability and illustration skills.
We should all be very thankful he loves painting railroad scenes as much as he does given the limited audience interested in trains.
His website is terrific and well worth everyones visit!
Stripes..up close and personal
rat
rat
A couple more pics of the GG1 at Harrisburg station when I passed through there recently.
quote:Originally posted by ChessieMan:
Jonathan-
I found some art for your train room or office. Click on the link and scroll down to the 11th painting.
http://www.gilbennett.com/Gallery.php
Great painting. I could by another G for the price though ....... choices, choices ...
Apparently the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI has bought GG1 4909 in 2008 and it is currently under restoration for static display next to their C&O Allegheny. Anybody know where the unit currently is?
Upstate NY, Cooperstown Junction/Milford. I stand corrected. Loco is there, building/tent is gone. I found a better image and the engine is just parked on siding.
The 4909 is in pretty deteriorated condition so I am guessing (only guessing) that someone is trying to figure out how to most efficiently move it to Dearborn.
The tent was their for asbestos and other hazardous materials abatement that was done last year. That is complete now, so the motor is ready for relocation.
It will be nice to see another one saved, but most preserved ones are in the 4900 series (mostly from the 40's).
Right now 4876 and 4879 are probably pretty high on the endangered list and represent the G's of the class of '39.
BTW, the Henry Ford Museum's collection in general is fabulous!
The tent was their for asbestos and other hazardous materials abatement that was done last year. That is complete now, so the motor is ready for relocation.
It will be nice to see another one saved, but most preserved ones are in the 4900 series (mostly from the 40's).
Right now 4876 and 4879 are probably pretty high on the endangered list and represent the G's of the class of '39.
BTW, the Henry Ford Museum's collection in general is fabulous!
Hello all. I am brand new to OGR as a member although I have been following this forum for a little over a year.
It looks like the topic has slightly shifted from scale models to the real gg1, but I have had a question bugging me for quite some time:
I have a scale gg1 in brunswick green, with a five stripe abbreviated pattern. It says MTH on the bottom but I have never been able to find out anything about it and have never seen another one in a hobby shop or up for sale online.
Is this a fake paint scheme or did any gg1 ever really wear this variety of stripe?
And I apologize if I am saying any of the wrong terminology but the PRR was gone many years before my time so I am a very young fan I guess you could say...
It looks like the topic has slightly shifted from scale models to the real gg1, but I have had a question bugging me for quite some time:
I have a scale gg1 in brunswick green, with a five stripe abbreviated pattern. It says MTH on the bottom but I have never been able to find out anything about it and have never seen another one in a hobby shop or up for sale online.
Is this a fake paint scheme or did any gg1 ever really wear this variety of stripe?
And I apologize if I am saying any of the wrong terminology but the PRR was gone many years before my time so I am a very young fan I guess you could say...
Andy, does it look like this?
If it does YES it existed at least for some short period of time. I have seen only ONE photo of this motor but published in two different books ("Pennsy Power III" and "The Remarkable GG1"). The only question is were the stripes silver or gold. The text that I have seen on the question side toward silver stripes.
Ron
If it does YES it existed at least for some short period of time. I have seen only ONE photo of this motor but published in two different books ("Pennsy Power III" and "The Remarkable GG1"). The only question is were the stripes silver or gold. The text that I have seen on the question side toward silver stripes.
Ron
I thought the original GG was having it pretty bad outside in Strasburg. Is the one in Cooperstown worse? Is that the one out of Dallas?
I don't know, but the one at the B&O Museum in Baltimore seems to be in pretty bad shape.
Ron-
That looks very similar to the one I have although the stripes on mine are definitely gold and the body is noticeably more green than the one in your photo. The pantographs on mine also have only one contactor.
Unfortunately I can't get a photo of mine right now but have you ever seen a scale model one like what I am talking about?
That looks very similar to the one I have although the stripes on mine are definitely gold and the body is noticeably more green than the one in your photo. The pantographs on mine also have only one contactor.
Unfortunately I can't get a photo of mine right now but have you ever seen a scale model one like what I am talking about?
Andy,
First off if your model is a “scale” MTH, it is a Premier Line MTH model. It will measure approximately 20-inches long from end of coupler to end of coupler. Is your model numbered 4829?
The model I pictured was cataloged 2002 vol 1 (20-5520-1) and looks exactly like the picture I referred to. That is as far as the shape of the stripes and style and placement of the lettering/numbering on the body. This was undoubtedly the most rare of all GG1 paint schemes.
As I stated there is no definitive info on the color of the stripes but most discussions on the subject say they were silver. For some reason, only known to MTH, they reissued this model in 2005 vol 2 cataloged (20-5566-1) (cab number 4829) with gold stripes. I have not personally seen this model only catalog pictures. But as cataloged the shape of the stripes and style and placement of lettering/numbering on body differ from the one picture of the prototype that exists that I have in my Pennsy books. For some reason I thought that Jonathan posted a copy of this picture in this thread or maybe another thread.
All said and done it probably is a great looking model. When running it very few if any will know the history and discussion on stripe color. And if you want, you can bring up the discussion of what the stripe color really was.
Ron
First off if your model is a “scale” MTH, it is a Premier Line MTH model. It will measure approximately 20-inches long from end of coupler to end of coupler. Is your model numbered 4829?
The model I pictured was cataloged 2002 vol 1 (20-5520-1) and looks exactly like the picture I referred to. That is as far as the shape of the stripes and style and placement of the lettering/numbering on the body. This was undoubtedly the most rare of all GG1 paint schemes.
As I stated there is no definitive info on the color of the stripes but most discussions on the subject say they were silver. For some reason, only known to MTH, they reissued this model in 2005 vol 2 cataloged (20-5566-1) (cab number 4829) with gold stripes. I have not personally seen this model only catalog pictures. But as cataloged the shape of the stripes and style and placement of lettering/numbering on body differ from the one picture of the prototype that exists that I have in my Pennsy books. For some reason I thought that Jonathan posted a copy of this picture in this thread or maybe another thread.
All said and done it probably is a great looking model. When running it very few if any will know the history and discussion on stripe color. And if you want, you can bring up the discussion of what the stripe color really was.
Ron
GG1 4829 wore the experimental abbreviated 5 stripe scheme when it was built and appears to have lose that scheme well before 1950. The subject of stripe/lettering color has not been resolved to date. Here is a photo of the engine outside of Elizabeth, NJ on the PRR main line:
and a cropped closeup:
the MTH model picture shown above has slightly incorrect too large lettering.
Williams also produced an abbreviated 5 stripe version, but the lettering was incorrect largeClarendon Roman, not Futura.
and a cropped closeup:
the MTH model picture shown above has slightly incorrect too large lettering.
Williams also produced an abbreviated 5 stripe version, but the lettering was incorrect large
PRR Man,
I will have to respectfully disagree with your assessment that the letters are too large.
I have the model laying here and the letters and numbers scale exactly the same size. And if use use a loupe and a scale on the pictures in "PP III" or "The Remarkable GG1" you will see that the proportion of the location and size of letters and number appear to be right on.
Now my pic of the model appears to give an optical illusion that the letters are larger than the numbers but they scale the same. Also the pics in the books give an optical illusion that the numbers are larger than the letters but again with loupe and scale they are the same as best that can be made out due to graininess of pics.
Oh by the way the pics in "PP III" are copyrighted!
Ron
I will have to respectfully disagree with your assessment that the letters are too large.
I have the model laying here and the letters and numbers scale exactly the same size. And if use use a loupe and a scale on the pictures in "PP III" or "The Remarkable GG1" you will see that the proportion of the location and size of letters and number appear to be right on.
Now my pic of the model appears to give an optical illusion that the letters are larger than the numbers but they scale the same. Also the pics in the books give an optical illusion that the numbers are larger than the letters but again with loupe and scale they are the same as best that can be made out due to graininess of pics.
Oh by the way the pics in "PP III" are copyrighted!
Ron
I'll have to respectfully tell you I was not saying the letters on the model were larger than the numbers. All the letters and numbers on the MTH model are too large, compared to the protoype.
As for copyrights, the image was found years ago on the internet... and if you examine my profile you'll see I am in the publishing business. I know all about what is public and private property.
As for copyrights, the image was found years ago on the internet... and if you examine my profile you'll see I am in the publishing business. I know all about what is public and private property.
Williams' question:
I am interested in the Penn Central William's GG1. Has anyone upgraded the sound, and if so, what product is best?
Thanks
I am interested in the Penn Central William's GG1. Has anyone upgraded the sound, and if so, what product is best?
Thanks
I managed to get a couple shots of the MTH GG1 I was asking about.
My apologies for the poor quality.
Also in response to the question of whether the stripes on 4829 were silver or gold, were any other GG1's ever painted with silver stripes? I recall that USA Trains has on their website a tuscan GG1 with 5 silver stripes although I don't believe it's in production.
My apologies for the poor quality.
Also in response to the question of whether the stripes on 4829 were silver or gold, were any other GG1's ever painted with silver stripes? I recall that USA Trains has on their website a tuscan GG1 with 5 silver stripes although I don't believe it's in production.
sorry, your photos did not post.
there is no information to support that any other PRR GG1 has silver lettering or striping. there was bronze, dulux, red on the silver units.
there is no information to support that any other PRR GG1 has silver lettering or striping. there was bronze, dulux, red on the silver units.
There's a boxed (wooden) O Scale 2 Rail Brass PRR GG-1 House of Duddy on E-bay. Looks interesting. Jonathan are these any good? Don
Andy,
There is no definitive empirical evidence to the color of the 4829 "Feathers" paint scheme one way or the other. But as I stated before ALL the written discussion I have read on the subject lean to the sripe on feathers as being silver. And if you search the net you will find little to nothing. There are two sites that image GG1 paint schemes. Both show gold stripes BUT they are different from each other in regards Lettering and Numbering. So can either be the definitive evidence?
Now the pictures PRR man posted above shown in Alvin F. Staufer's book "PENNYS POWER III" 1847-1968 page 242 is captioned with and I quote "View and "blow-up"of 4829 westbound (south) with Train 271 at Elizabeth,N.J., May 22,1937. 4829 has a rare, one of a kind paint scheme that lasted a very short time. Striping was reported as silver but we are unable to verify that.- Martin S. Zak"
Now a personal observation, I have peer over this one photograph as published in PP III and "The Remarkable GG1" visually comparing "gray scale" apparent densities, and specularity to other B&W photos published in same volumes. I "see" a darker body and more brighter specularity in the stripes. I base this observation on over fifty-years of shooting, developing, and printing from silver based materials.
BUT, nobody knows for sure!!!! No empirical evidence appears to be available!
Ron
There is no definitive empirical evidence to the color of the 4829 "Feathers" paint scheme one way or the other. But as I stated before ALL the written discussion I have read on the subject lean to the sripe on feathers as being silver. And if you search the net you will find little to nothing. There are two sites that image GG1 paint schemes. Both show gold stripes BUT they are different from each other in regards Lettering and Numbering. So can either be the definitive evidence?
Now the pictures PRR man posted above shown in Alvin F. Staufer's book "PENNYS POWER III" 1847-1968 page 242 is captioned with and I quote "View and "blow-up"of 4829 westbound (south) with Train 271 at Elizabeth,N.J., May 22,1937. 4829 has a rare, one of a kind paint scheme that lasted a very short time. Striping was reported as silver but we are unable to verify that.- Martin S. Zak"
Now a personal observation, I have peer over this one photograph as published in PP III and "The Remarkable GG1" visually comparing "gray scale" apparent densities, and specularity to other B&W photos published in same volumes. I "see" a darker body and more brighter specularity in the stripes. I base this observation on over fifty-years of shooting, developing, and printing from silver based materials.
BUT, nobody knows for sure!!!! No empirical evidence appears to be available!
Ron
A definitive source would be to get a print of the official PRR painting and lettering diagram for that GG1 scheme. The PA state library has a massive archive of PRR drawing on file (I believe on microfilm). I know a PRRT&HS member who is expert at researching the files and offers his service at a modest fee for time, printing, and shipping. I've used his services for several scratch building projects - if you want to get it right the info is there for a price.
Ed Rappe
Ed Rappe
Ed, Do you have an approximate cost? This is something I would like to have concrete evidence of one way or the other.
But of coarse if there is no concrete evidence I would hate to pay much for nothing.
Ron
But of coarse if there is no concrete evidence I would hate to pay much for nothing.
Ron
Ron - send me an email off line and I'll connect you with the researcher. A key piece of info probably will be to give him a date range to search within so you aren't looking at a print of one of the later GG1 schemes.
Ed Rappe
Ed Rappe
Bump for my question.
[quote]Williams' question:
I am interested in the Penn Central William's GG1. Has anyone upgraded the sound, and if so, what product is best?
Thanks[/quote
[quote]Williams' question:
I am interested in the Penn Central William's GG1. Has anyone upgraded the sound, and if so, what product is best?
Thanks[/quote
quote:
GG1 4829 wore the experimental abbreviated 5 stripe scheme when it was built and appears to have lose that scheme well before 1950.
I think well before 1950 is not only correct, but the answer is likely prior to WWII considering how little documentation there is on this GG1. Due to the lack of prototypical information on this GG1 scheme, I am not sure even the PRR mechanical department archives have much information on this short lived and one off scheme.
I have a version in HO by IHC that has correctly proportioned height letters and numbers. The dimensions appear to be of the same height as the standard lettering in the Futura scheme.
There is no proof that this GG1 was Silver and Black. There would be no precedence for it in PRR history, so IMO it was DGLE with gold leaf per standard PRR painting practice. The photo everyone references has a lot of contrast as if it was printed using a yellow filter or magenta filter causing the lettering to appear to be white.
I think the main thing we see is that rare shot of a freshly painted AND clean GG1 early on in it's career.
quote:Originally posted by scale rail:
There's a boxed (wooden) O Scale 2 Rail Brass PRR GG-1 House of Duddy on E-bay. Looks interesting. Jonathan are these any good? Don
Don,
I'm not the expert on that model other than to say that it is based on the old Alexander Models tooling. Each one was practically hand built by Ed Duddy and the details are nice. As far as proportioning, the newer models tend to be better, but a Duddy GG1 is certainly a nice item for a collection. This is especially true since they are out of production.
I don't know of a suitable sound module for any electrics let alone GG1's. Maybe MTH can supply a PS2 upgrade with GG1 sounds? Personally, even though most of my steamers have sound, only some of my diesels and electrics do. With electrics, I'm really not bothered as the sound of the loco as it is, is probably fairly realistic. I have a few scale Williams GG1's and wouldn't worry about sound.quote:Originally posted by Dreyfuss Hudson:
Bump for my question.
[quote]Williams' question:
I am interested in the Penn Central William's GG1. Has anyone upgraded the sound, and if so, what product is best?
Thanks[/quote
2 manufacturers make sound sets for a GG1: ESU Loksound and QSI. Right now Loksounds are hard to come, for what reason I don't know. The QSI Revolution decoder which has the sound set is an HO decoder, which does not have a high enough amp rating to drive an O scale GG1. What can be done, and what I'll do with my Sunset GG1, is to use the QSI for sound only. You will need a QSI motor simulator board added as well, so the sound can be triggered by motor current draw.
I've spoken to Tony's Trains about this setup. You can get the Revolution for about $99, the motor simulator for $16 and a NCE408 decoder for $55-$60. This is a DCC solution. How you'd work in concert with DCS or TMCC I do not know.
I've spoken to Tony's Trains about this setup. You can get the Revolution for about $99, the motor simulator for $16 and a NCE408 decoder for $55-$60. This is a DCC solution. How you'd work in concert with DCS or TMCC I do not know.
Jonathan, you are so correct that using filters can alter contrast. But also using different B&W films (Pan vs, Ortho etc.)and/or filters can totally changes things. As example Ortho is not sensitive to red light. Now I have never used a magenta filter with B&W; yellow, orange, blue, green and red filters yes.
Printing with polycontrast materials combinations with magenta will simulate PC filters. But of coarse PC materials did not exist in 1937. And I do not think that two different publications would have printed the same photo 16-years apart using the same techniques for only the one photo and not all the others in the publication.
Bottom line we/nobody knows for sure. But I reiterate all discussion I have read in publication foster the belief, say again belief that the stripe were silver just as Staufer's caption for the photo in "Pennsy Power II" eludes to.
It is too bad nobody asked George E. Votava the photographer (a degreed engineer and avid train photog) who died in 99.
Printing with polycontrast materials combinations with magenta will simulate PC filters. But of coarse PC materials did not exist in 1937. And I do not think that two different publications would have printed the same photo 16-years apart using the same techniques for only the one photo and not all the others in the publication.
Bottom line we/nobody knows for sure. But I reiterate all discussion I have read in publication foster the belief, say again belief that the stripe were silver just as Staufer's caption for the photo in "Pennsy Power II" eludes to.
It is too bad nobody asked George E. Votava the photographer (a degreed engineer and avid train photog) who died in 99.
I have a post on the 2 rail forum on improving Sunset GG1s which some may find useful
John,
Your post was most impressive and the results more so. I am saving it for future reference when I get back to working on mine. Thanks for your effort in taking the time to document your improvements.
Your post was most impressive and the results more so. I am saving it for future reference when I get back to working on mine. Thanks for your effort in taking the time to document your improvements.
Just received new Kato GG1s...
Nice.
JohnnyJT
South Philly
Nice.
JohnnyJT
South Philly
Those G's are Kato N scale locomotives. I should be getting my PC 4885 and AMTK 918 this weekend. If you are a true fan of the GG1, you owe it to yourself to take a look at the Kato model. It is exquisite.
Bob
Bob
