In addition to hosting the last of the E40's, the old Camden & Amboy witnessed some interesting GG1 operation as well. In pre-Conrail days, diesel powered local freights destined to customers located along non electrified trackage west/south of Jamesburg were sometimes assigned a GG1 helper. The helper typically assisted as far as Jamesburg at which point he cut off. The diesel would then continue on its own to points beyond such as Freehold and Hightstown.
So there's another modeling idea for you: put together a train using an RS11 for power, place a G in front and you have an authentic pre-Conrail C&A freight.
Bob
Jonathan..............
I took your advice and lowerd my Ole Rivets. It sure does make a differance. Thanks for the info..............
Hev
This is before I lower it............................
And this is after the fix..................................
I took your advice and lowerd my Ole Rivets. It sure does make a differance. Thanks for the info..............
Hev
This is before I lower it............................
And this is after the fix..................................
Hev - that looks great! Did you find the mod to be pretty easy? I did, but then I have a nasty habit of taking all my trains apart eventually.
That look of 4800 looks as if it came out of the book 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea. Or Bucks Rogers and/or Flash Gorden.
quote:Originally posted by GG1 4877:
Hev - that looks great! Did you find the mod to be pretty easy? I did, but then I have a nasty habit of taking all my trains apart eventually.
To tell ya the truth it wasn't to bad. Brass shims or whatever ya want to call them came off real easy. I did check the belts and all the mounting stuff while I had the shell off and everything seem to be fairly tight. Mounting brackets for the motors were really solid too.......................
Here is another new member to GG1 Electric family...
JohnnyJT
South Philly
JohnnyJT
South Philly
Now that's a pretty cool looking combo.
Now, when the Little Joe pans would hit the AC cat, the motor would go into Gomez Addams mode: Blow up! Were the Joes built for 1500 or 3000 V DC current?
3000 v DC IIRC.
I think they were built at 1500V for Russia, but were redone to 3k when the MILW bought them.
Then were the South Shore Line ones converted back to 1500 volt DC?
Yes, the locomotives were modified to take 1,500 volts for CSS&SB operation. As built for Russia, the locomotives were configured to run off 3,300 volts.
Bob
Bob
Volts on Joes which went to Brazil?
I finally got to see the 4876 in person on Saturday. It's better than the last photos I saw, but marginally so. As soon as I process my images from the TCA National Convention, I'll be posting. It needs a home to be sure. I am thinking Arizona where it won't rust anymore ......
Current condition of GG1 4876 as of June 26th, 2010. Still enough left to preserve and it's behind a fence now, but time is certainly running out for this one
My son and I caught a glimpse of 4876 while on the short B&O Museum train ride a few weeks ago. Haven't gotten the pics off the camera yet. The conductor pegged me right away as a train enthusiast when I mentioned "what poor shape that GG1 is in". He made sure to alert us to see the 2-6-6-6 Allegheny they have in own of their sheds - to which I mentioned we had an O gauge version on our roster at home. I have to get to work on those pictures.
Just picked up MTH #1 Gauge GG-1 from SideTrack it was on sale...
JohnnyJT
South Philly
JohnnyJT
South Philly
I wish I had a picture to post, but a fellow TCA Division member brought a standard gauge GG1 done in the 70's that was nearly scale. It was designed so a child could sit on it, weighed 47 pounds and was made with 1/8" steel. The real GG1 only had 3/32" steel panels. Off course the model version didn't have 24" of concrete on the deck and an I beam steel frame, but impressive none the less.
Thanks for sharing. That is probably how I'll get into large gauge someday .... A G scale G.
Thanks for sharing. That is probably how I'll get into large gauge someday .... A G scale G.
WOW!!! Sensational photos! Well done!!!
quote:Originally posted by GG1 4877:
Good Afternoon (AZ Time).
I took some time to get some photos together to compare the various manufacturers of scale GG1s.
We start with all the motors in a row. From left to right we have a Lionel JLC, a Weaver, a Williams, and a Proto 2 MTH. These were chosen since they are all single stripe and Brunswick Green.
Now Looking at the individual locomotives in the same order you will note the following details of each:
The Lionel JLC is a formidable model and is the only one commonly available one with the FARR intake filters high up on each end of the hoods. (Eliot - Sorry I didn't back to you sooner on this). Many consider it a aesthetic violation. It was done by the PRR in a program from the late 50's through the 60's on several GG1s to prevent fine particles of snow from being sucked off the track in through the filters and shorting out the motors. It happened twice in PRR history and it crippled passenger train operations.
The Weaver model is brass construction with cast wheels and a plate frame. It was the first mass produced scale GG1 yet it is still a very fine model. The brass allows for a level of detail that suited the GG1. The only problem is the gold stripe with the gold on the keystone. The Lionel version is correct. This, while very attractive is not representative of the prototype. Having said that, the prototypes were not washed often per PRR standard practice so the color would suit it better if it were weathered.
The Williams scale model is one of the best values for a new GG1 and can negotiate an 0-42 curve in a pinch. This model shares the same style of paint and keystone as the Weaver version. It is a plastic body and does lack a few of the details found in the Weaver, but it is close. The frame and wheels appear to be from the same manufacturer or molds and they are interchangeable. The particular issue with this model is that this is a road number never produced. The highest numbered GG1 was 4938 during its Pennsy years. A good smooth runner and easy to find, so these are always nice additions to the roster.
The MTH Proto-2 model with the operable pantographs is an excellent model. Again its underframe parts are interchangeable with Weaver / Williams. The MTH model however has stepped it up on detail. The pantograph is accurate for this road number with the single contactor on the top versus the double contactor of most. It has a see through linen filter screen which is also a nice feature. While this is not the PRR version, this number is one of many that got to keep its stripes and was simply stenciled over with PC and later CR letters.
Now a comparision of the fronts of a few of these models:
Granted the GG1 to the left is not one of the sample group, but it is representative of the level of detail found on both the Weaver and Williams models. The Tuscan GG1 is the original MTH Proto-1 release. You can clearly see the level of difference in the detailing of the front. The MTH lacks clarity in the depth of the detail and the pilot is not nearly as detailed. The Lionel version is crisp. To be fair, these two are 9 years apart on production.
The 4925 JLC version has a wealth of great detail on the front and the MTH freight version below it is also sporting added detail.
This photo shows how the JLC version is a bit closer to scale than all the others. It is actually about 5/8"-3/4" longer. The two GG1s were lined up with the back aligned. The wide angle photograph distorts the view somewhat, but it is certainly noticeable when placed side by side. When pulling trains or lined up, I honestly don't find it to be that obvious.
And finally, see the level of detail at the bottom of the JLC version, which is unique among these models. From the open spokes, the detail on the builders plate, this is truly a well detailed model. If anything, my only complaint on detail is that the plates were starting to show their seams on the prototype by the time this motor received its filter modifications. How neat would that have been to work into the molding!
Overall, I find things that are attractive in all these models. The JLC is the finest example in terms of detail, but the non functional and rigid pantographs are truly a hassle. I am probably going to modify them down the road and use manual ones or see if I can get the MTH ones to work. The Weaver, while being the oldest, are very crisp and nice models. When priced right, I wouldn't hesitate to pick up more. MTH continues to refine the GG1 and has offered the most variations and road numbers, but I would like to see the sound set upgraded a bit or simply a version without sound at a cheaper price. Finally the Williams are the old standby. When all else fails, these will run, run, and run. Perfect for train shows where you need to run for long stretches of time.
I apologize for the length of this and I hope there is something useful for you in here!
Yes, this is a splendid reference article by Jonathan. I recently bought my first, a Williams, and I love it. It won't be my last. Maybe another at York.
A few new images of some old G's with one in the middle of a conversion. My ruined pantograph fills in nicely in the meantime to make it look more derelict than it ultimately will be:
And just one for fun with my new backdrop that I've already reprinted to be lighter .....
And just one for fun with my new backdrop that I've already reprinted to be lighter .....
Hey GG1 4877...
What is the boogie on that backdrop ?
The lower photo...(with the apparently run down industrial site) looks particularly realistic
Is that Background Warehouse ... or what ?
What is the boogie on that backdrop ?
The lower photo...(with the apparently run down industrial site) looks particularly realistic
Is that Background Warehouse ... or what ?
quote:
Is that Background Warehouse ... or what ?
It's me, Google images, Photoshop and a large format printer. I have a better version I need to put up though, this one came out a bit dark and doesn't fade into the background as well.
This scene is a montage of the South Amboy facilities circa the PC era where I combined four or five images to make a condensed version. It runs behind my yard, which to date is all I have as far as a layout!
OK !
Well ... You have the "Backdrop" thing down pat !
Looks great !
You ever decide to go "commercial"...
Hey ... The Loco "4840" ...really looks great... all weathered, scuzzy, dirty and funky, like a GG 1 that regularly plays outside !
What make is it ... and how did you get it to look all cool and dirty !?
The Trucks ... stock... or embellished ?
I gotta learn how to weather ...
Well ... You have the "Backdrop" thing down pat !
Looks great !
You ever decide to go "commercial"...
Hey ... The Loco "4840" ...really looks great... all weathered, scuzzy, dirty and funky, like a GG 1 that regularly plays outside !
What make is it ... and how did you get it to look all cool and dirty !?
The Trucks ... stock... or embellished ?
I gotta learn how to weather ...
The 4840 got a bath after seeing prototypical pictures of it. It's a stock MTH CR stencil version so I first used black powders to rub vertically down the sides of the loco. The second part involved using heavily watered down acrylic paints through the air brush to blast it with dirt. I hit the trucks too while I was at it. I taped over the CR's on the sides during painting to make them stand out bright and new.
The all black G next to it will be getting similar treatment in time when I get to it. For now, I put a broken pantograph on it to make it derelict for the time being.
The all black G next to it will be getting similar treatment in time when I get to it. For now, I put a broken pantograph on it to make it derelict for the time being.
Thanks 4877 !
"Weathering" is a skill I will have to acquire...
There is another thread on the 3 Rail Forum...
That asks a question regarding "Diminishing value" through "customization".
I guess it is possible... where the item is "pristine", NIB 1950's vintage ...
Hasn't been produced in 50 years ...
But I don't buy model trains as "investments"... and I hope to never have to sell anything I have bought (although I do have a few "pieces" ... I like to give back to the Mfg for what I paid for them)
But good weathering does seem to increase the "realism" of virtually all pieces...
"Bright & Shiny" ... can only be true for brand new locomotives .. and only for a short while...
The "older" the piece .. the grimer it should be ...
"Weathering" is a skill I will have to acquire...
There is another thread on the 3 Rail Forum...
That asks a question regarding "Diminishing value" through "customization".
I guess it is possible... where the item is "pristine", NIB 1950's vintage ...
Hasn't been produced in 50 years ...
But I don't buy model trains as "investments"... and I hope to never have to sell anything I have bought (although I do have a few "pieces" ... I like to give back to the Mfg for what I paid for them)
But good weathering does seem to increase the "realism" of virtually all pieces...
"Bright & Shiny" ... can only be true for brand new locomotives .. and only for a short while...
The "older" the piece .. the grimer it should be ...
As many have already said, what an informative and educational thread on one of the most important, efficient, productive and long-lived locomotives in railroading history!
I can hardly wait for Lionel's scale Vision Line/Legacy version of the GG1!
Both have been repowered and fitted with PS-2
Well done John, what an amazing picture. The car passing, it's a Hudson isn't it?
John - WOW. Beautiful shot. Both 3rd Rail G's? I know the first one is.
I'm still troubled by the incorrect painting of electric locomotives. (And, I guess that steam power, indigenous to one railroad, painted for a completely wrong road, bugs me, too.) But to see a nice model of a "Little Joe" painted in Pennsy colors, JUST because it happens to have pantographs on it, just ain't right!
I guess that Lionel was first responsible for this type of travesty with the New Haven ONLY EP-5's being represented as Milwaukee Road, Great Northern or what-have-you. I think that someone commented that the kind of sparks, or literally explosions that would occur if someone actually raised the pans on a Joe up to the AC high voltage wires of the Pennsy, would certainly be impressive.
But, I guess that my theory looses out, because it seems that most manufacturers will paint their products any way that they can sell them, although I think that they are taking unfair advantage of the less knowledgeable customers.
Paul Fischer
I guess that Lionel was first responsible for this type of travesty with the New Haven ONLY EP-5's being represented as Milwaukee Road, Great Northern or what-have-you. I think that someone commented that the kind of sparks, or literally explosions that would occur if someone actually raised the pans on a Joe up to the AC high voltage wires of the Pennsy, would certainly be impressive.
But, I guess that my theory looses out, because it seems that most manufacturers will paint their products any way that they can sell them, although I think that they are taking unfair advantage of the less knowledgeable customers.
Paul Fischer
John - what a gorgeous scene! Can I borrow your photo to post elsewhere?
Dave, Jonathan and Bob
Thanks for the kind words. Just got home from work and its always good to find your work is appreciated by your peers!
Here is another view:
Dave-- that's a 1949 Ford. It started out life as a White Rose Police Car. Striped of its law enforcement paint and attachements and then repainted a non descript color from the early 50's
Jonathan. Both are Sunset (you should know, you had a hand in their creation) In addition to the motors I reworked the running gear, the truck assemblies the weight distribution and the electrical pickups. They run much smoother, pull better, and start much more gently.
Bob..feel free to use this as you wish. Let me know if I win the Pulitzer Prize
John
Thanks for the kind words. Just got home from work and its always good to find your work is appreciated by your peers!
Here is another view:
Dave-- that's a 1949 Ford. It started out life as a White Rose Police Car. Striped of its law enforcement paint and attachements and then repainted a non descript color from the early 50's
Jonathan. Both are Sunset (you should know, you had a hand in their creation) In addition to the motors I reworked the running gear, the truck assemblies the weight distribution and the electrical pickups. They run much smoother, pull better, and start much more gently.
Bob..feel free to use this as you wish. Let me know if I win the Pulitzer Prize
John
Behind Rivets, is that a Weaver B60B baggage?
I don't know about the Pulitzer, but you should win a prize. Your photos reproduced better where I put them - no tearing on the whisker stripes. Haven't been up long enough for comments. That is some really good modeling!
PS - I just got my fifth GG1 - an Alexander aluminum deal, with early Duddy trucks. It cleaned up really nice. It was a present. I now have more GG1s than any other SP modeler that I know.
Thanks for letting me borrow the photos!
PS - I just got my fifth GG1 - an Alexander aluminum deal, with early Duddy trucks. It cleaned up really nice. It was a present. I now have more GG1s than any other SP modeler that I know.
Thanks for letting me borrow the photos!
Hey Harry, check this out from Mike Wolf in 2011 Vol-1 catalog.
JohnnyJT
South Philly
JohnnyJT
South Philly
Some GG1s stretching out a 12 scale car passenger train today on the club layout.
Probably my favorite shot:
Probably my favorite shot:
MUEagle of the forum sent me this link to my Facebook page. Worthy of reposting here - great stuff and brought back many memories of my early teens.
quote:Originally posted by John Sethian:
Both have been repowered and fitted with PS-2
I just found this. Wow, John. What a gorgeous shot!
Dennis Brennan
Jonathan--
Since you started this thread my scale GG1 collection exploded from three models (Weaver, two Williams) to seven, and then dropped to five. I added four Lionel models and got rid of the two Williams models.
Since you started this thread my scale GG1 collection exploded from three models (Weaver, two Williams) to seven, and then dropped to five. I added four Lionel models and got rid of the two Williams models.
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