ScaleTrains.com just announced acquisition of MTH's HO and S Scale tooling at ARS Virtual Show!!! Look for details soon on their website and YouTube channel.
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Here is the video:
Beat me to it! I think this is very good news.
Well, I'll be darned... I heard rumors, but didn't believe them.
However, as I listened to it, it'll take about 2 years before the Showcase line rises from the ashes... again.
Rusty
It is great news for S.
@AmFlyer posted:It is great news for S.
Back to real DCC and not modified DCS.
It's going to be interesting to see how they handle the Flyer/HiRail/Scale divides.
Rusty
When I first saw the title I almost got excited for O Scale!
Dave
Well....who knows how this will play out, but it’s good news either way, scaletrains makes some amazing stuff.
Ben
@Rusty Traque posted:Back to real DCC and not modified DCS.
It's going to be interesting to see how they handle the Flyer/HiRail/Scale divides.
Rusty
I would like to hope they do it very similar to the way Don did it with SHS. Then everyone will be a winner.
Did not see this coming. Hope it is the start of something good!
Mike
I think that an announcement for O & G gauge would hurt the pre-order sales of the current limited run items being announced now. Anytime there is a big announcement like this, everything up to that point has been pretty hush hush until complete & accurate information about the purchase can be reported. All anyone does on this forum is speculate and theorize what can happen.
good new for s gauge
Thank you Scale trains, having bought one of there rivet counter NS SD40-2 in HO. It was perfect, and ESU sound for DCC. Icing on the cake.....
In addition to real DCC the HO engines will get the ScaleTrains motors. I could not tell what might be planned for the S gauge engines as far as any re-motoring.
Interesting on the video how he says “an opportunity came our way this summer that we just couldn’t pass up”.
That seems like a long time for a deal to come together.
I wonder what the terms of the deal were?
Probably too good to pass up
@Rusty Traque posted:Nobody's going to tell.
Rusty
I can’t remember if it was public knowledge of how much the deal was when MTH purchased it from Don. I would be surprised if MTH sold it for more, one would like to think it was a lot less as they didn’t really do much with it. I thought a value of a business would be based on sales/profits etc, not my area of expertise, I am sure someone else here will know more as to how a bit of a business is valued.
The idea for the use of DCC won't be worth a **** unless they will have it operate with Legacy also. Plus uses high rail track.
Much more of the available market uses that as their operating method than DCC. Remember we are the 85% that buys trains.
@Roundhouse Bill posted:The idea for the use of DCC won't be worth a **** unless they will have it operate with Legacy also. Plus uses high rail track.
Much more of the available market uses that as their operating method than DCC. Remember we are the 85% that buys trains.
Couldn't disagree more...
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
I would be happy with AC/Hi Rail coventional but Imight not live long enough to see them made.
No F units please I have enough American Models already but I would buy 7 BL2 Bangor & Aroostook and pre pay.
Gunny
Bill, I suspect the comments on DCC were for their existing HO market. If I recall, there was a lot of grumbling in the HO community that the trains were nice but we don't need no stinking DCS. I am sure there are some in HO land that are happy that DCS is being ditched.
I would not read anything into the comments on how they are going to approach S. I wonder if even they know at this point. They probably have an idea but that is about it.
Besides since they are competing in the HO and N business they are dealing with 85% or close of the Model Railroad market not 85% of S.
@Caldwell posted:Bill, I suspect the comments on DCC were for their existing HO market. If I recall, there was a lot of grumbling in the HO community that the trains were nice but we don't need no stinking DCS. I am sure there are some in HO land that are happy that DCS is being ditched.
I would not read anything into the comments on how they are going to approach S. I wonder if even they know at this point. They probably have an idea but that is about it.
Besides since they are competing in the HO and N business they are dealing with 85% or close of the Model Railroad market not 85% of S.
If I had to guess, it would be the original SHS format and similar to AM. A standard DCC plug that you can plug anything you want into it. Not sure about AC, but there will be a DC shunt plug. And if you want Legacy, you just buy the board and plug it in. Finally everybody wins – goodbye proprietary systems!!! I distained having to buy the extra electronics only to rip out the boards.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
Tom, that would be perfect and it would work for everybody's needs.
Bill
Here's the list of items they've aquired from MTH. HO is at the top, S on the bottom.
Attachments
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I would think the EMD F3 would also be part of the list--along with the F7?
Jeff C
@Roundhouse Bill posted:The idea for the use of DCC won't be worth a **** unless they will have it operate with Legacy also. Plus uses high rail track.
Much more of the available market uses that as their operating method than DCC. Remember we are the 85% that buys trains.
SHS didn't have Legacy or TMCC either. Scale Trains does sell conventional DC locomotives. I wouldn't be surprised if they use the electronic e-unit SHS had for Flyer guys.
Without a DCC compatible connector on Legacy electronics, it ain't gonna happen. I doubt Scale Trains is going to try to license it.
As to wheels, I would assume the wheel and coupler tooling was part of the deal.
Still, it's probably gonna take 2-3 years before we see anything under the Scale Trains badge.
Rusty
Note that the SHS 2-8-0 is not listed. Lost tooling???
@Rusty Traque posted:SHS didn't have Legacy or TMCC either. Scale Trains does sell conventional DC locomotives. I wouldn't be surprised if they use the electronic e-unit SHS had for Flyer guys.
Without a DCC compatible connector on Legacy electronics, it ain't gonna happen. I doubt Scale Trains is going to try to license it.
As to wheels, I would assume the wheel and coupler tooling was part of the deal.
Still, it's probably gonna take 2-3 years before we see anything under the Scale Trains badge.
Rusty
I wonder how deep their pockets are. That will impact the time table.
As for Legacy, I agree. It's up to Lionel to make the compatible connector. As an overly complex, proprietary system, it's market impact is rather limited.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
As far as the 2-8-0 not being listed, maybe that falls under the “ Unproduced locomotive and rolling stock”.
thinking even further down the road, I wonder now if there could potential he be a buyer for American models.
Ben
@NotInWI posted:As far as the 2-8-0 not being listed, maybe that falls under the “ Unproduced locomotive and rolling stock”.
thinking even further down the road, I wonder now if there could potential he be a buyer for American models.
Ben
Man, the ink's not even dry on the contract...
Rusty
After the last handoff of SHS to MTH and the delay before product production, I'm not holding my breath for this one.
@Former Member posted:Note that the SHS 2-8-0 is not listed. Lost tooling???
MTH has the tooling. Don Thompson stated it was on the tooling transfer list, so it should now transfer to Scale Trains.
Rusty
@Rusty Traque posted:SHS didn't have Legacy or TMCC either. Scale Trains does sell conventional DC locomotives. I wouldn't be surprised if they use the electronic e-unit SHS had for Flyer guys.
Without a DCC compatible connector on Legacy electronics, it ain't gonna happen. I doubt Scale Trains is going to try to license it.
As to wheels, I would assume the wheel and coupler tooling was part of the deal.
Still, it's probably gonna take 2-3 years before we see anything under the Scale Trains badge.
Rusty
I see Lionel and MTH carried over their proprietary system war to S. Their involvement seems to have made matters worse - not better.
Before too long, plug in radio control will be the norm. It's what we young pups want. And that's the future. The more manufacturers selling non-proprietary plug-in models the better. Eventually Lionel will get on board.
@Jacobpaul81 posted:I see Lionel and MTH carried over their proprietary system war to S. Their involvement seems to have made matters worse - not better.
The more manufacturers selling non-proprietary plug-in models the better. Eventually Lionel will get on board.
I doubt that.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
@Jacobpaul81 posted:I see Lionel and MTH carried over their proprietary system war to S. Their involvement seems to have made matters worse - not better.
Before too long, plug in radio control will be the norm. It's what we young pups want. And that's the future. The more manufacturers selling non-proprietary plug-in models the better. Eventually Lionel will get on board.
However, both Lionel and MTH have had to adapt and make their electronics compatible with DCC. MTH had to atfer encountering resistance in the HO market and for some odd reason, Lionel decided to add it to Legacy in 2012 for the S market. Neither system is perfect for DCC, but basic DCC functionality is there.
Legacy is already radio control, the signal is transmitted from the rails to an antenna on the locomotives.
Rusty
@Former Member posted:Note that the SHS 2-8-0 is not listed. Lost tooling???
The list was made by someone online trying to piece together what might have transferred over, its definitely not a complete list.
@Rusty Traque posted:<snip>
However, as I listened to it, it'll take about 2 years before the Showcase line rises from the ashes... again.
Rusty
I kind of agree with Rusty. My joy about the tooling being picked up is quickly tempered by the realization that ScaleTrains' principal interest is most likely in the HO tooling which is relevant to what is by far the biggest segment of the hobby. Rolling stock and track items could be reintroduced the most quickly with both the hi-rail and scale markets being dealt with easily. The locomotives will be a bigger challenge; and don't hold your breath regarding the 2-8-0s about which anyone who has ever taken one apart will tell you are fragile and will require major engineering changes to be an acceptable product.
Wishing ScaleTrains good fortune. The developments will be fun to watch.
Bob
Now that some of the euphoria has settled down, I watched the video again. As Bob mentions, the primary effort will be with the HO line. It looks like ST really bought the MTH HO tooling to accelerate their upcoming steam locomotive projects with the existing products and "ten new steam locomotives" that were in development at MTH.
As to S, the video only states they see an opportunity to grow the S market. I know visions of sugarplums have been dancing through S folks heads, but HO will come first. ST's production facilities are already booked for the next 18-24 months. Plus they have to increase staffing.
S took up 10 seconds of the 4 minute video.
Some are referencing that ST is going to upgrade the existing Showcase Line to their "Rivet-Counter" status. I didn't hear that in the video. IMHO, The former SHS/MTH S will fit nicely into their "Operator" class of trains, thanks to the efforts and foresight of Don Thompson and Mike Ferraro.
All that was stated by Shane Wilson was this "was a great way to dip our toe into that (S) market."
So, we're going to have to be patient.
Rusty
I conducted discussions with Shane, president of Scaletrains, over a year ago about entering the S scale market. At the time myself and another backer were ready to invest in getting a new S scale locomotive engineered and manufactured. Things changed and we did not proceed. However, in my discussions with Shane I shared lots of advice about the best ways to enter the S scale arena. The S nuance of couplers and wheels was new territory, so we talked at length about this. I touted highly the SHS approach. From my read on the discussions, here is what I think they will offer relative to diesel locomotives:
- A choice of a) DC, b) AC, c) DCC decoder plug, or 4) ESU decoder installed
- Scale & hi-rail coupler compatibility with both included in the box
- Scale & hi-rail wheels included in the box
- Compatibility with traditional Flyer tight radii curves
In other words, S Helper Service.
