Shared Model Railroad Wisdom

Yup! Plan the work, work the plan. It also helps to do piles of research into exactly what you want to accomplish with your little slice of paradise, before actually going out and purchasing specific things and equipment for it. For example, I've got a PW 2046 steamer/tender and a WBB GP9 that are the biggest pieces of equipment... They'll pull all the rolling stock I have and they're good enough for me because they were inexspensive and toyish. I don't need super detail.

It also helps to do reasearch into what you think you like. Like getting a tattoo, except you can sell your train. Can you live with it? Does it fit where you want to put it? Are your tastes going to change? My tastes changed and I find myself going after lithographed tin instead of plastic pw rolling stock.

Also, it goes without saying but don't get purchase-crazy and go into debt just for trains. It's hard enough to afford things anymore, your trains should be a hobby, not a vice. 

I agree with you, Steamwulf. Love your expression, "little slice of paradise," that is indeed how I feel about my trains and layout, and the PW 2046 is one of my favorite engines too.

For those starting out, it can be good to see as much of the trains in action as possible that catch your eye. The most economical way to do that is to network with other hobbyists and see what they run on their layouts. If affordable, you can also purchase a sampling of what appeals to you, and then build on what you fall in love with. Arnold

Good topic, Arnold. I'm quite curious to read what people write about it.

I'm a life-long Railfan, having watched trains for as long as I can remember. I've also always been interested in model railroading, in part because trains and the other part because I have always enjoyed watching and tinkering with mechanical gadgets (whether a model locomotive or a real one). Back when the Earth was still young I did a 2yr degree in electrical and electronics engineering and that knowledge&understanding made playing with electro-mechanical gizmos even more fun.

It wasn't until 2015 that I realized I finally had the time, modest space and a few $$ for model railroading so I jumped in. O scale because big enough to see and work on and 3-rail because less $$. Having read hobby magazines off and on for many years I was familiar with some of what other people get out of model railroading and the philosophy of model trains doing the same sort of work as real trains (moving goods&people) appealed to me. So my first Pike was a simple switchman's-nightmare:

It lived in.....the living room.  I had fun with it and learned that I do, indeed, enjoy switching Operation. Then we moved and in so doing upsized our house, going all the way from a tiny 743 sqft to a palatial 1050 sqft. I now have an 11.5' X 12.5' room dedicated to my Pike and I'm a pig in mud.

Switching the East End:

Switching the West End:

Gone is the switchman's nightmare (switchback siding(s) and moving-the-empty-spot-around to solve the puzzle) which I learned just made me feel anxious. I have written and posted a topic on the subject of learning and evolving by doing. It is posted here:

The Evolution of the Plywood Empire Route

The takeaway is that what I enjoy most is visual and operational variation&variety. It can take five minutes or forty minutes to do the pick-up and set-out work at the east End depending on what is spotted there at the outset and what is incoming. Every freight train looks different than the previous one because there are six sets of equipment cycling through the system and because the time certain cars are spotted at a customer is different that with other customers.

Have I spent money on stuff I didn't end up utilizing? Yes, of course, but even that money was well spent because I was learning. I view it as being in the same category as college tuition.

I do have equipment themes. Everything except the P&OC SW1500 and the Conrail crummy is Fallen Flags from my youth and there is a car from every railroad I rode as a kid. Two exceptions are a Great Northern grain hopper and a BN grain hopper. Never rode those lines. Also, wrt Western Maryland the "riding" has been as an adult on a bicycle.

Another bit of wisdom ... it may be helpful to decide upfront what RAILROAD you want to operate/collect. In my case, at age  50 I re-entered my boyhood hobby and focused on the trains of the Chicago, Rock Island, & Pacific (CRI&P); i.e., Rock Island -- because that RR served my hometown (Peoria, IL) when I was a youngster. I rode the RI Peoria Rocket several times. I bought Lionel trains with that road name, and when I had them all, I expanded to other road names (MTH, Marx, Williams,  Weaver,  Atlas O, and others).  Some hobbyists "buy what they like" without an organizing principle as a guide to purchasing, but they may have deeper pockets than mine.

After medical incidents, I sold my RI collection via Stout Auctions - all eight pages of my inventory.  I kept two RI trains as mementos:  a Lionel E6A diesel with RI decor plus matching passenger cars, and a Lionel "Mikado" RI steamer with a string of RI boxcars and a caboose.  They are now on display in my train room, along with last year's purchase of a Sunset 3rd Rail TA diesel with RI decor plus four matching passenger cars. It's a very accurate model of the Peoria Rocket.

Some hobbyists pre-organize their buying by the TYPE of loco -- small steamers, huge steamers, streamliners, first generation diesels, vintage classics (Pennsy GG1, AT&SF Super Chief, MR Hiawatha, etc.). Some "re-collect" their long-ago-lost boyhood trains. Some focus their attention on one BRAND of trains -- Marx, AF, RMT, Lobaugh. Many brands to choose from! Some select a time frame for their collection -- pre-war, post-war, modern.

Select your organizing principal and apply it.  Then you can explain your unique approach to the hobby to family, friends, and visitors. Thankfully, our hobby offers many options to consider!

Mike Mottler     LCCA 12394 

Great subject, Arnold, as usual! 

One bit of wisdom, that I'm acting on right now, was passed on to me by our departed friend Marty Fitzhenry. I didn't know him nearly as long as many on this forum did, but in the approx. 3 years that I knew him, living relatively nearby, I had the opportunity to visit him every 4-5 months or so. I always learned a lot about the hobby during my visits with him, but this is one bit of wisdom that was never discussed: 

Never let a walkway / doorway stop you from running trains; build a drawbridge. 

He had many on his layout, which enabled him to use all available space for running his trains. I am now taking that wisdom, and acting on it by re-designing my layout to include double reversing loops, one of which will run around the wall in the "sitting area" of my train room. I'm also installing an elevated line, and elevating some of my larger accessories such as my #129 terrace, above the layout. That piece takes up a lot of valuable real estate, but elevating it will allow me to expand my passenger yard below it. 

John

BlueComet400 posted:

Great subject, Arnold, as usual! 

One bit of wisdom, that I'm acting on right now, was passed on to me by our departed friend Marty Fitzhenry. I didn't know him nearly as long as many on this forum did, but in the approx. 3 years that I knew him, living relatively nearby, I had the opportunity to visit him every 4-5 months or so. I always learned a lot about the hobby during my visits with him, but this is one bit of wisdom that was never discussed: 

Never let a walkway / doorway stop you from running trains; build a drawbridge. 

He had many on his layout, which enabled him to use all available space for running his trains. I am now taking that wisdom, and acting on it by re-designing my layout to include double reversing loops, one of which will run around the wall in the "sitting area" of my train room. I'm also installing an elevated line, and elevating some of my larger accessories such as my #129 terrace, above the layout. That piece takes up a lot of valuable real estate, but elevating it will allow me to expand my passenger yard below it. 

 

John

 

 

John, what a great idea, building a drawbridge, and what a challenging project!

Arnold

Arnold, it won't be just "a" drawbridge. The expansion will involve 4 drawbridges and one section that will swing-away on a hinge. It's a big project, but if I can build one, I can build more. This is my "bucket list" layout. 

John

All of your ideas in the above replies are great!

Of course, the OGR Forum in its entirety is the Mount Everest of shared model railroad wisdom. Arnold

You never know exactly how many trains you own until you have to move. 

As a long time OGauger and technologist, I am absolutely amazed by how invasive technology has been in our 100+ year old hobby in the past few years. The OGRR forum does a great job in keeping up with the latest developments and informing all of us.

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

 

 

As I was running these cars this morning on my layout with tubular track, 031 curves and 022 switches, it occurred to me that these passenger cars are perfect for my layout. I have a set of the more expensive extruded aluminum Postwar passenger cars that are more valuable and considered to be more desirable, but they are also more scale size and, IMO, do not look as good running through my sharp curves.

 

Agree with you 100% there. Learned that when I built my first basement layout and, at the recommendation of many here, I added 42" curves to my original O27 27" plans. My O27/traditional-sized engines all looked much better going around 42" curves, almost natural, and I was able to add a few engines that required 31" curves. 

Building a new basement layout, and this one will have 54" and 72" curves with 42" as the smallest. No 27" except for an isolated, elevated level.  Despite the wider curves, no engine or piece of rolling stock requires more than 31".  

There is a juicy tid-bit of wisdom for us all: whatever minimum curve radius you think is OK, go bigger. I have read more than a few people here say they wish they had started with broader curves.

geysergazer posted:

There is a juicy tid-bit of wisdom for us all: whatever minimum curve radius you think is OK, go bigger. I have read more than a few people here say they wish they had started with broader curves.

That old line "just because you/it can doesn't you/it should" comes to mind.

I learned this the hard way.  If a local hobby shop does not have a layout, then do not trust them to do repairs or sell used equipment that they refurbished themselves.

I agree that if circumstances, particularly the amount of space, allows it, wider curves are usually better.

However, that was not, and is not, true for me. My limited basement space and family circumstances were, and still are, such that 031 curves work just fine.  I acknowledge that I'm a bit of a Contrarian in this regard. 

Why is that? 

I only have a half, not full, basement. I want my trains to go places, not just around a circle or oval. So, having a long and narrow layout with my trains running around the walls of my layout in my modest sized play room and laundry room work in my basement.

Also, when I built the layout, my wife and I did not want the layout to dominate the playroom because our kids had other interests, and wanted to socialize with their friends, doing other things in the basement playroom besides trains. When they were teenagers, I am sure this included being affectionate with those of the opposite sex on the sectional couch in the basement. LOL.

I also wanted to have smooth continuous running of trains on 2 independently powered main lines with reverse loops on each end.

So, sharp 031 curves running traditional sized trains on my layout can be a good thing, depending on one's circumstances. Arnold

Joining or developing a network of model railroad enthusiasts can greatly enhance one's success and enjoyment of the hobby.

This reminds me of a video of a train collector (he was in the McComas & Tuoy 6 video set), who had a massive Standard Gauge collection, who said the collector who does it alone, loses.

Networking can exponentially increase the lobbyist's information and knowledge, his/her ability to build a layout, and provides connection and comraderie, among other things.

Joining a train club, hanging out at a LHS, and being active on this Forum are great model railroad networking opportunities. Arnold

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

 

Joining a train club, hanging out at a LHS, and being active on this Forum are great model railroad networking opportunities. Arnold

When I joined the NJ HiRailers the president of the club asked me " What do you know"?  I did the Schultz answer  "I know nothing".  That changed pretty quick because I learned a ton from the members

Gentlemen, I greatly appreciate the insights you have shared. I’m poised to have built a 20’x20’ addition to our garage. It has been thirty plus years since I had a decent layout. My trains are all postwar; 10 engines(about half will be operational with maintenance) and numerous freight and passenger cars. I’m going with a fifties theme with my Plasticville collection. I have a lot of super o track and switches but I have decided to use tubular. I may incorporate the super o in some areas. I have been reading extensively and making myself crazy. But, I will consider it an evolutionary endeavor. Perhaps I’ll start replacing Plasticville with some kit bashing. Importantly, I feel more centered after reading your comments.

 Thank you 

Jay, I am delighted that you find our comments informative. Helping those like you who are embarking on developing a layout was a primary reason for starting this topic. Arnold

Great thread, Arnold!

Peter

Arnold, I like this topic!  You really come up with some great ones.  I'm like Curly, "I'm trying to think, but nothing's happening"    I'll chip in when something happens!  

Mark Boyce posted:

Arnold, I like this topic!  You really come up with some great ones.  I'm like Curly, "I'm trying to think, but nothing's happening"    I'll chip in when something happens!  

Thank you, Mark. I appreciate how uplifting you always are to those in the throes of building a layout. Arnold

I will say that I have received more “model railroad wisdom” from the talented members of this Forum than I have given out.......and I thank you all!

Peter

Before I built my current, and likely final layout, I bought numerous booklets from my LHS about various subjects related to creating a layout. They included booklets on track plans and design, benchwork, painting backdrops, wiring and electrical connections, and scenery. I also subscribed to the 2 major magazines on O Gauge trains, including OGR magazine, which continues to date. So, I agree with Steamwulf's above remarks that it is helpful to do research.

As I've mentioned on another thread, my model railroad bible was, and still is, Greenberg's Model  Railroading with Lionel Trains, Vol. II: An Advanced Layout, by John Kouba. I believe it can be purchased on ebay for approximately $20. It was published in 1992, so it is about building an advanced conventional layout with block wiring. Arnold 

as an aside.........That’s a great book Arnold........I also like Vol I by Roland LaVoie.....he was a fixture at Philadelphia and Baltimore Greenberg Shows in the 80s.

Peter

For my previous layout, I was challenged like some of you with space ~ was limited in depth. But, I had a nice long basement to let the trains "stretch their legs." So, to make the layout visually interesting I built up and down using the 3-dimensional space above and below the original platform. This is not an original idea of course...its an old model RR'ers and village-builder's trick...and as a young boy of 6-7 years of age my father took me to a home that had a fantastic Alpine-style HO layout that was built near to the ceiling - that image remains with me to this day.

I ended up with 4 -tiers on this layout - all independent and connected by grades up and down via Ross switches. I was quite pleased with the results; the layout was a nice place to visit after a hard day at work, even without running trains. But, building multiple levels was very challenging from an engineering standpoint. Perhaps the wisdom in this is that it can be done more easily than adding operating tiers, such as building tall cities and/or mountains, etc.

A shot of one side of my previous Victorian style layout taken around 2008:

This shot was taken by Jim Barrett on a photo-shoot in June 2009 ~ about 6-months before I had tear down the layout. The left-side of the photo shows a yard-extension I was able to add, and the right-side shows some "hi-rail" structures that bumped-out some of the ceramic ones.

geysergazer posted:

There is a juicy tid-bit of wisdom for us all: whatever minimum curve radius you think is OK, go bigger. I have read more than a few people here say they wish they had started with broader curves.

I so agree with all these tid-bits but to me this would be the most important as I am trying to change a curve now and it is very difficult to do as an after thought.

Knowledge is something someone else can give you, or you can read about. 

Wisdom is what you learn from personal experience.

I would suggest building the layout in phases. this allows you to get the trains up and running sooner, since the amount of work (and hours) is less. This phased approach also allowed me to learn and improve my modelling skills, then apply my wisdom to the next phase.

(Note, it is easier to get permission to build a small layout, in a small space. Then use "scope creep" to take over the rest of the room, or better yet, the entire floor, as I did)

Phase 1: small 12'x11' layout in about 1/3 of the upstairs attic train room.

Phase 2: Expanded to an "around the room" 11'x24' layout, going through the walls in the closet at the end of the room. this included a yard on the upper level. (upper level tracks are in green)

Phase 3: Expanding the upper level to also go around the room. This created a "twice around the room" main line, which gives a nice long main line run. (upper level tracks are in green). this project required a lift bridge and a swing bridge [swings away like a door]). The upper level included a second yard, for storage of rolling stock. This layout can handle about 70 cars in an operating session.

Phase 4: added a turntable and roundhouse (still not built). This phase allowed me to keep all my engines on the layout, without clogging up the sidings with parked engines. I built the turntable yard on top of my desk, inside a turret in the corner of the room. (green is the second level, turntable track is yellow)

 My main sources of knowledge and information obtained to design and build this layout came from going to the York meets for a few years, and getting ideas and help on the OGR forum.

Layout is still being upgraded and improved. The past two years I have been adding a Custom Signals fully operational signal system. Still lots of buildings purchased at York to be assembled and installed.

I also just "place" my buildings on the layout. I have moved buildings and some track several times, as I keep getting new and better ideas over the years. My track sits on painted and textured carpet underpadding, with all the wires hidden from view. I will eventually add more texture and scenery between the tracks, however this is the last phase, only to be done when I am sure the track layout is finalized. I have been working on this layout for 22 years.

Read.

Read Everything you can get your hands on:

The history of railroading, the evolution of the equipment, your favorite road(s), the development of model trains, the techniques of pike building.  Books, magazines, website, BBs.  A sub-class:  watch videos of the real thing and the model.  And not just what's in the stores today.  When someone gives away those ancient copies of MR, Trains, RMC, whatevever, grab them!

Learn the terms and jargon unique to RRing and Model RRing.  

I don't recommend this reading in lieu of hands-on experience but in addition to and early on.  You can avoid expensive side-tracks and possibly waste.  You can interact more easily with others in the hobby and expand your knowledge from them more readily.  You can get a sense of what you CAN do and what you WANT to do.

Read.

Read ( and watch) Everything you can get your hands on.

Joe K posted:

Knowledge is something someone else can give you, or you can read about. 

Wisdom is what you learn from personal experience.

I would suggest building the layout in phases. this allows you to get the trains up and running sooner, since the amount of work (and hours) is less. This phased approach also allowed me to learn and improve my modelling skills, then apply my wisdom to the next phase.

(Note, it is easier to get permission to build a small layout, in a small space. Then use "scope creep" to take over the rest of the room, or better yet, the entire floor, as I did)

Phase 1: small 12'x11' layout in about 1/3 of the upstairs attic train room.

Phase 2: Expanded to an "around the room" 11'x24' layout, going through the walls in the closet at the end of the room. this included a yard on the upper level. (upper level tracks are in green)

Phase 3: Expanding the upper level to also go around the room. This created a "twice around the room" main line, which gives a nice long main line run. (upper level tracks are in green). this project required a lift bridge and a swing bridge [swings away like a door]). The upper level included a second yard, for storage of rolling stock. This layout can handle about 70 cars in an operating session.

Phase 4: added a turntable and roundhouse (still not built). This phase allowed me to keep all my engines on the layout, without clogging up the sidings with parked engines. I built the turntable yard on top of my desk, inside a turret in the corner of the room. (green is the second level, turntable track is yellow)

 My main sources of knowledge and information obtained to design and build this layout came from going to the York meets for a few years, and getting ideas and help on the OGR forum.

Layout is still being upgraded and improved. The past two years I have been adding a Custom Signals fully operational signal system. Still lots of buildings purchased at York to be assembled and installed.

I also just "place" my buildings on the layout. I have moved buildings and some track several times, as I keep getting new and better ideas over the years. My track sits on painted and textured carpet underpadding, with all the wires hidden from view. I will eventually add more texture and scenery between the tracks, however this is the last phase, only to be done when I am sure the track layout is finalized. I have been working on this layout for 22 years.

Bravo, Joe, I think your above post is awesome. Tremendous knowledge and wisdom in everything you say, IMO. 

As I reflect on the building of my own layout, I did have considerable "creep," slowly expanding over a long time.

Also, your approach combines action and experimentation, in addition to knowledge. It is important to take action, learn from it (experimentation and wisdom), so as to avoid paralysis that can result by adding knowledge without taking action and acquiring wisdom. Also, action means getting the trains running, which immensely adds to our fun.

These are my initial thoughts after merely glancing at your post. I will study it and expect to add more comments. Arnold

palallin posted:

Read.

Read Everything you can get your hands on:

The history of railroading, the evolution of the equipment, your favorite road(s), the development of model trains, the techniques of pike building.  Books, magazines, website, BBs.  A sub-class:  watch videos of the real thing and the model.  And not just what's in the stores today.  When someone gives away those ancient copies of MR, Trains, RMC, whatevever, grab them!

Learn the terms and jargon unique to RRing and Model RRing.  

I don't recommend this reading in lieu of hands-on experience but in addition to and early on.  You can avoid expensive side-tracks and possibly waste.  You can interact more easily with others in the hobby and expand your knowledge from them more readily.  You can get a sense of what you CAN do and what you WANT to do.

Read.

Read ( and watch) Everything you can get your hands on.

Excellent, Pallalin. I have followed your advice by subscribing to OGR Magazine and Classic Toy Trains magazine for most of the last 25 years, buying even older issues from my LHS for peanuts (maybe $5 for 10 years of old issues) and, believe it or not, saving all of them! My train magazines go back to 1988.

That is in addition to the numerous booklets on various topics of model railroading I mentioned before. 

Arnold

You know, in the hobby there is what works, what doesn't work, and what works for you. You hear things all the time how "you aren't doing that like it should be" or something along those lines. As long as you're not crossing wires, touching positive to negative, or blowing up your transformer, it's your railroad, run what you want.

Also, like most people who realized at a young age that you don't need to buy everything, don't. Just because something sparkles your eye for a few minutes doesn't mean it has to be yours right then and there. When I was in my early 20's I wanted just about everything. Some things I was smart about, other things, well, you live, you learn. I buy what I like, not necessarily what I need or think I need. I have had to pass on quite a few things because other stuff I really wanted or needed, desired perhaps. I know we can all relate and possibly kick ourselves every which way you read that.

The best thing to do, stop, look, listen, ask, and ask again if need be. I'll never forget asking Peter how to simulate track ballast like he did on one of his posts. Textured spray paint. Gotta love that.

Hi Arnold: I've learned a lot from this forum (and the other one), and I must say the most instruction came from seeing where others tried to do TOO much. My own layout is 4'x12' and is easy for me to operate and care for, but there were a lot of larger, unfinished layouts over the years and fancy equipment I couldn't fix by myself before I finally reconciled my talents and abilities with my dreams. 

Just as an aside, your layout is 031 and mine is 042. Overhangs don't bother me, since that was what I saw in the catalogs and commercials growing up and that was the look I always wanted. They might be awkward, but I love the memories they evoke.

Another good topic, Arnold. Thanks.

I'll relay a bit of wisdom I learned from a supervisor I worked for many years ago.  When something isn't working out, walk away from it for a while.  He even encouraged that when we had a system out of service.  Coming back to it after a short coffee break would often clear my head and I would then stumble on something I overlooked.

In the hobby, if something isn't going together right, go do something else for a while, even days.  I think this is especially true for aspects of the hobby we don't like as much as others.  I think everyone has some aspect that would be considered even a necessary evil.  For many, it is wiring and electronics.  For others, it may be carpentry, mechanical repair, or whatnot.

Also, if you don't know how to do it, such as electrical or mechanical repair, leave it alone and get help.  Either ask here, or get a friend or pay someone to fix it.

Joe, I love how you tunneled through the walls. That is thinking outside the box.

I've tunneled under my basement steps for a most interesting and realistic tunnel. It was a lot of work but well worth it

After building my first 'real' layout on my own (had a lot of help with track and electrical work once the benchwork was in place), I have found the following t be good ideas:

• Put the layout in a place that's easy to get to and pleasant to go. That way, you won't make excuses for not going into the layout room
• Have an idea for the RR you're modelling. If total freelance, that's fine but write a history for it before you buying anything. What's it doing? Where does it go? What are the main customers? Then, but only the stuff that works for your concept and nothing else. Stick with your concept.
• If you have a good idea of what structures and RR cars you'll want for your layout, go ahead and buy/decal/weather them before you get started. That will save a lot of time later
• Whatever amount of track you think you'll need, you'll need at least a third more than that.
• Take photos of the process. You will be glad you had them later (so glad I thought to document the build)
• Make your curves are broad as you possibly can, even when they don't need to be. The broader, the better, no matter what
• Solder all the track together and run feeder wires to every section you can. Make it bulletproof!
• Don't scrimp on track. Get the good stuff and take care putting it into place. That's how the real RRs do it!
• Make your aisles wide enough for guys with guts. If you don't, you'll never heard the end of it (thankfully, a lesson I learned from someone else before I built mine)
• When the layout is under construction, do something on the layout every single day that you're home, even if it's something as little as adding another figure or a power pole somewhere. It all adds up!

Paul Kallus posted:

Joe, I love how you tunneled through the walls. That is thinking outside the box.

I've tunneled under my basement steps for a most interesting and realistic tunnel. It was a lot of work but well worth it

Tunneling through a wall can greatly increase the dramatic effect your trains can have on the viewer. I will never forget the big moment when I made mine about 20 years ago.  Here is a photo of it:

And another, from a distance:

This was an example of the "creep," starting with a small layout and then expanding it into a larger one. More like an exponential enlargement since it meant expanding the layout into a whole new room.

The amusing story about this tunneling through the wall was the way my 10 year old daughter at the time reacted. After sharing this tunneling through a wall idea with her for a while, when I actually cut the hole through the partition between the playroom and laundry room, she gleefully ran upstairs and told me wife (her mother): "he did it, Daddy tunneled through the wall downstairs and devalued the house!" LOL.

I think one of the reasons my daughter was so happy was because she thought she could get me in trouble by telling that to my wife. LOL.

Arnold

"he did it, Daddy tunneled through the wall downstairs and devalued the house!"

LOL

Yes, the backstory, or history of the Pike is what draws it all together into a cohesive working model. To me this is as important, nay more so, than perfect fidelity to scale and/or exact prototype. For me model railroading is always caricature so it's about creating a suspension of disbelief and backstory is key to that.