Can smoke fluid be used in post-war steamers ? I have been using clear lamp oil in my LGB smoke units with great success. Can it be used in Lionel smoke units ?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Dan, I use smoke fluid in my original Post War. Works as well or better than pellets. Just make sure the unit is clear of pellet buildup for best performance. JT Megasteam even makes a Smoke Pellet scent.
Pete
Yes, you can use fluid in postwar locos. Normally 4 drops is the starting point as you don't want to overfill and make a mess.
The fluid won't leave the white residue that the pills create.
And don't use lamp oil. There's a good chance it will ignite.
There are cheap conversion kits available that have a low value resistor and some fiberglass webbing that replace the old coil to help them smoke better. Have done a number of the conversions (kits are under $5, but you have to get in there and pry the top off the smoke unit to do the job). Make sure that the little hole in the bottom of the chamber is not clogged - many postwar locos are jammed full of pellet residue - seems like once they are plugged, it's almost impossible to burn out the jammed hole.
Jim, if the little hole is clogged, won't any smoke fluid pour through it ?
Here's a thread we just had on this same subject.
Yeah, I do it all the time w/ no issues. I use Mega Steam's Smoke Pellet scent. Just a few drops at a time, as others have said & you should be fine.
Dan- I converted my PW 2026 a while back. The pellet smoker still worked but I wanted to update to a fluid unit. Real easy project. The little hole in the bottom allows the "puff' to happen when the driver cam rotates around and lifts the piston.
Bob
Dan Padova posted:Jim, if the little hole is clogged, won't any smoke fluid pour through it ?
How can anything go through the hole if it is clogged?
I got together with a train friend yesterday, who is very knowledgeable about Postwar Lionel trains. He has a substsntial collection of them and does excellent Postwar train repair work, including working on Saturday afternoons at a LHS.
He told me you can use a few drops of either Lionel Premium Smoke Fluid or MTH Smoke Fluid, instead of smoke pellets, in Postwar steamers, without converting the smoke units to run on fluid, and still get good results. My friend said he knows dealers at train shows that do it all the time.
Do you agree with my friend?
Are there any negative consequences for using a few drops of the fluid in Postwar steamers without doing the conversion?
Arnold
One more thing: yesterday, my friend and I did the above and the results were very good. We got just as much, maybe more, smoke using the fluid instead of the pellets. However, I don't know if there are any long term negative consequences from using the fluid.
Yet one more thing that is related to this topic. Years ago I got K-Line Smoke pellets that I thought were excellent, and much better than the original Lionel pellets. (I think the problem with the Lionel original pellets is that they are too old and tend to clog the smoke units, even if you use a little bit at a time and crumble it before putting it in the smoke stack).
The K-Line pellets produced more smoke, and had a very nice fragrance, with much less of a tendency to clog than the Lionel originals.
Unfortunately, I only have 1 K-Line smoke pellet left, and doubt if they are made anymore. Arnold
@Arnold D. Cribari posted:Do you agree with my friend?
Yes, agree, I have used fluids for decades, but I use enough to saturate the wicking under the wire wound element, a good 14-18 drops or more if it is dry, up to the level of the red line. Older units may need new wicking.
@Arnold D. Cribari posted:Are there any negative consequences for using a few drops of the fluid in Postwar steamers without doing the conversion?
Not that I have seen. If you do the liquid downgrade kit, you are stuck with fluids only, and the elements burn out quickly.
@Arnold D. Cribari posted:... K-Line Smoke pellets that I thought were excellent..
I think those were just paradichlorobenzene pellets. Smelled like grandma's attic.
@ADCX Rob posted:I think those were just paradichlorobenzene pellets. Smelled like grandma's attic.
LOL, my grandmothers had no attic.
Does that mean old and musty?
Anyway, I like the smell of the K-Line pellets but, then again, I'm weird.
Aren't all of us model railroaders weird?
LOL, Arnold
@RSJB18 posted:Dan- I converted my PW 2026 a while back. The pellet smoker still worked but I wanted to update to a fluid unit. Real easy project. The little hole in the bottom allows the "puff' to happen when the driver cam rotates around and lifts the piston.
Bob
What I did with my 2026 was tear it down and clean out all that waxy mess of a buildup from the SP pellets all those years and freed up the piston. Then I replaced the wick and added a spring which it did not have.
Thereafter I have been using JT's liquid smoke fluid and it is working better than ever. Lasts a long time too. It puffs much better because of the spring.
John
My 2 cents, as respects to Lionel PostWar steamers:
In the past I tried liquid, produced OK smoke at first but died down quickly. Also, did not last as long as a pellet.
I'm finishing up my supply of K-line pellets, bought when full bottles of original Lionel pellets were going for $20-$30 each (Now about 1/4 - 1/3 that price). Happy with the K-line option, nice smoke rings produced just like the original Lionel's.
I do not find any loss of function from original Lionel pellets (even if some are now powdered) and, IMHO, smell the best. A nostalgic smell.
Did the K-Line pellets leave a residue buildup like the Lionel pellets did?
John
@Craftech posted:Did the K-Line pellets leave a residue buildup like the Lionel pellets did?
John
Craftech/John,
I find that residue buildup is not an issue with either, if one uses up most of what is in the smoke unit before adding another pellet.
In over 25 years, other than when going over newly purchased engines, I've never had to clean out residue from a smoke unit
@Arnold D. Cribari posted:LOL, my grandmothers had no attic.
Does that mean old and musty?
Moth balls.
Incidentally, whatever you do, don't stick the metal tip of a a screwdriver in the smoke stack to loosen residue from smoke pellets. I learned the hard way that doing so can damage the smoke unit. When I did that, I had to have the smoke unit replaced.
@Arnold D. Cribari posted:Incidentally, whatever you do, don't stick the metal tip of a a screwdriver in the smoke stack to loosen residue from smoke pellets...
Lionel provided a wooden tamper for mucking around in the smoke units, which was bad enough.
@ADCX Rob posted:I think those were just paradichlorobenzene pellets. Smelled like grandma's attic.
The Kline pellets were made from biphenyl.
Lionel pellets are approximately 87% m-terphenyl with 13% of p-terphenyl to adapt the melting point.
Edit 12/07/2024: See image below for additional information of potential interest. This has been posted elsewhere.
Attachments
Images (1)
@Lionelski posted:Craftech/John,
I find that residue buildup is not an issue with either, if one uses up most of what is in the smoke unit before adding another pellet.
In over 25 years, other than when going over newly purchased engines, I've never had to clean out residue from a smoke unit
I probably did it when I was I kid. Most likely added too many pellets.
John
@ADCX Rob posted:Lionel provided a wooden tamper for mucking around in the smoke units, which was bad enough.
My 2035 smoke unit never worked because the first time I used pellets I mashed them down with the wooden tamper and broke the element. Who knew at 5 years old?
Pete
